Anyone detect clear evidence of a fluoride effect?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone see a clear effect of any sort in a reef tank when starting or stopping dosing of just fluoride and nothing else?

 

[Righteous]

I started with a tank that had not had a water change in over a year. Triton and oceamo ICP both reported flourine at 0.45-0.5ppm. I dosed recommended values and subsequent ICP returned ~1ppm which would quickly fall again with reduced dosing.

I noticed overall health improvement in Acropora coral, and what seemed to be improved coloration. My NO4 runs around 50ppm and 0.2 PO4.

However I cannot be certain that other factors affected coral health as I didn’t think about controlling everything during this time period, although I’m unaware of any other major changes.

 

[cilyjr]

I've been curious about this.

I started a small dose of a flouride additive 2 months ago tomorrow. With no noticable changes to date. I will continue through the 2nd bottle and will make reports here.

As I'm basically on auto pilot there no other significant changes to the running of the system with the exception of switching from an icecap kalk stirrer to the Avast kalk stirrer but the dosage did not change.

320gallon display, 75 gallon sump, 30 gallon frag. All plumbed together.
System is about 400 gallons of actual water.
(Do we want another tank info here?)

Dosing 30 drops (from supplied dropper) of this.
I will find out what the ml is today. This product.
ME flouride.


Before beginning dosing.

1 month in

 

[Righteous]

I’d add also report if you have run any ICP measurements and if you do water changes. In other words do we know if dosing was bringing up levels from low to NSW or dosing was happening with fluoride already at NSW levels.

 

[cilyjr]

I’d add also report if you have run any ICP measurements and if you do water changes. In other words do we know if dosing was bringing up levels from low to NSW or dosing was happening with fluoride already at NSW levels.

Easy. I have a Triton ICP test in from a few months back. I also ordered one a couple of days ago. Once it arrives I will do that.

 

[cilyjr]

In addition, I have a couple of acropora speciosa pieces. I have lots of pictures over at the few months just because it being a sensitive quarrel. I'm sure I have some from before beginning of dosing that we can look at a specific colony, if that's helpful?

This is From February, as I only do a couple of these a year.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I had low Fluoride in my tank, dosed the required amount to correct the "issue" and I haven't really seen the effects mentioned below either positive or negative. Curious to learn more.

 

[Pod_01]

I will offer my experience, every so often when playing around and few of these questionable elements go below the NSW level. I referring to I, F, Br, Zn, Cu and I end up with this:

I think it is Dino’s.

Anyways it happens once every so often when I get distracted (busy life) or last outbreak was when I experiment with calcium carbonate (reef snow).

After I get these elements up with magic bottles, few weeks later things clear up:

So not necessarily that I get coral growing some fusion colour, but overall the tank looks better.

I don’t know what element contributes or if it is completely unrelated.

I have not seen anything when adjusting F alone.

 

[rtparty]

Can I vote yes and no?

I only have one event that Fluoride *might* have been the culprit.

I had frags of red Anacropora and a couple of colonies growing out. I was running Reef Moonshiners but had a ton of ATI supplements I was still going through. I ran RM for the first 3-6 months on ATI supplements. It was probably around the 4-5 month mark when I sent in an ICP test, got the results, and performed the correction doses. This wasn’t my first time doing this. The next day, all red Anacropora white and dead. Complete RTN on every piece. No other coral showed a single sign of issues.

I was so perplexed I reached out to Andre of RM. He knew I was running ATI stuff from day one. He immediately blamed ATI fluoride for the issues and “he has seen it before.” Ok. Makes no sense that it took the 4th or 5th dose to finally kill stuff especially when it wasn’t overdosed. Fluoride was “low” so I added the correction. Again, did this multiple times with no issues.

So did the fluoride kill the corals? Was it ATI fluoride specifically?

I eventually ran all RM products and never saw anything negative or positive from dosing RM fluoride. I also saw no changes when I stopped and never worried about fluoride again.

 

[Reefahholic]

I’ve seen several acro’s change in color when Fluoride is kept above 1.2+ mg/L.

My purple teal Stag, Oregon blue Tort,
some Tenuis, etc. Those are just a few that come to mind. Colors definitely become more pronounced especially when auto dosing. Before that, my Fluoride was dropping significantly down to 0.5-0.8, and I definitely noticed a difference after keeping it above 1.2+ mg/L.

 

[Marc Pardon]

@Reefahholic : I see also change on my Acropora colonies. It looks like Fluoride has an impact on the density of the zooxanthellae .... But with high corrections (0,5 mg/liter) in a small time I ran into problems with RTN. I use NaFl by the way. The affected Acroporas were deepwater species (Carduus) and a Valida Colony. I have noticed no impact on LPS and Zoas.

 

[Reefahholic]

@Reefahholic : I see also change on my Acropora colonies. It looks like Fluoride has an impact on the density of the zooxanthellae .... But with high corrections (0,5 mg/liter) in a small time I ran into problems with RTN. I use NaFl by the way. The affected Acroporas were deepwater species (Carduus) and a Valida Colony. I have noticed no impact on LPS and Zoas.

Yeah, Fluoride is an element than can get you into trouble if overdosed. I try to keep mine above 1.2 and up to 1.5mg/L, but I was worried about auto-dosing for a while because I didn’t want to overdose. It kept coming back under 0.1, so I finally averaged it out for a daily dose. That yielded significant improvements in coloration with several Acro’s. For me it’s similar to Potassium if you overdose, but you can go a little higher. It will nuke Acro’s if overdosed though. Not as high as you can overdose Iodine, but higher than 1.7-1.8 before significant issues occur. Recently, I saw a result come back at 4.85, and the guy was having major STN/RTN in the system. Usually you don’t see a value quite that high.

 

[Reefahholic]

 

[Miami Reef]

Anyone see a clear effect of any sort in a reef tank when starting or stopping dosing of just fluoride and nothing else?

What’s the reason you are asking about Flouride specifically?

 

[cilyjr]

What’s the reason you are asking about Flouride specifically?

Probably this.

What’s using the flouride?

That’s a great analogy actually. So let’s take it a little further. I’m sure you love your dogs and cats but raise the stakes a bit higher. Would you be willing to live and have your love ones live in a house with 0% argon (perhaps replaced with nitrogen) for the rest of their lives. Perhaps...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[cilyjr]

Not A. Specieosa like I was thinking but this should work.

July 8th about 1 week of starting.

Sept 1 about 2 months into it.

 

[Reefahholic]

@cilyjr very nice color improvement!

 

[cilyjr]

Very nice color improvement!

I'm not sure if it's just the lens though. I will keep posting this colony with the same lens. At roughly the same time of day.
Note to self.... 4pm

Should I do weekly,monthly, biweekly? You all decide.

 

[Pod_01]

Very nice color improvement!

Now the question to ask. Is it colour change or filter change or time of the day the photo was taken colour shift?

 

[cilyjr]

Now the question to ask. Is it colour change or filter change or time of the day the photo was taken colour shift?

Great questions!
I was posting at the same time as you. I'm not sure. Going forward I will be using the same lens at the same time of day. The July picture was just one that I had from before. I'm pretty sure it is the same lens as I usually only use the orange orphek one on the dt. But I can almost assure you it was not the same time of day.