Anyone ever heard of Probiotic Reef Salt by Aquaforest

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well the results speak by themselve,
Our bacteria are in the lyophilized form in Probiotic Reef Salt. It is activated in contact with water. These are specialized organisms for the reclamation (cleaning) of water reservoirs. Similar bacteria are also they used to remove effects of disasters of marine tankers, leakage of oil or wastewater treatment.

As about amino acids and vitamins they are dry and they help the initial development of probiotic bacteria in water. Thanks to that they have two functions - improving the water environment (reduction of phosphate and nitrates) and as a plankton bacteria - food for corals especially sps corals. Till the salt is dry nothing happen with bacteria and medium for bacteria. This salt is made for more than 5 years, tested and it works very good in many tanks. We’ll not give the names of Bacteria (which strain) because it’s our company know how and we are afraid of copy our product. Today’s microbiology allows to much more then storage of bacteria (probiotic) in salt , food for animals or even humans.

If You will have more questions please ask my friend J

As I posted in another, similar thread...

Well, that at least explains what they hope to accomplish with the bacteria. Assuming it works as claimed, the claims sound almost exactly like the claims for MB7, so in that sense it doesn't sound revolutionary to me, and I still don't see why this should be in the salt mix itself since that leads to complications like stability of the new salt water. Why not just add it separately when and if you think you need such bacteria?

Did you ask them how long this salt water retains the initial concentration of amino acids, vitamins, and bacteria? I presume that one needs to use it right away if you want that benefit (if it is a benefit), or else the bacteria will colonize the salt water storage container and consume the organic matter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well the results speak by themselve,
J

Which results speak for themselves?

I've seen incredible reef tanks using just about any salt mix.

I'd love to see a side by side comparison of this salt mix to others in a similar setup.

Do you have such evidence?

 

[Stigigemla]

If you look at the homepage of Aqua Forest it seems that the probiotic salt has not been in production more tha 5 years.
http://aquaforest.eu/en/o-firmie/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, it was recently announced they have a new US distributor, so maybe they restarted manufacturing.

 

[Robthorn]

I knew this was a sales pitch from the beginning. Now if the salt is really good there is a bad sneaky feel to the whole thing.

 

[Robthorn]

I periodically dose bromide and that makes the lps fat and puffy. At least for me in my tank. It looks like bromide is higher in this salt compared to numbers I have seen posted for some other salts.
I prefer deep rich color over pastels but these are some very beautiful tanks in the ads.

 

[vlangel]

I am sorry to now get the feeling that this thread was a sales pitch. Since I have seahorses and sanolife mic-f is not attainable anymore I was interested in this salt. Not so much after the sneaky way this thread was started.

 

[Vermont05452]

Seams like a sales pitch to me also. Tell me please, how often are the water changes on this tank? Daily, multi weekly?
Also what other additives and controls are being used? Be nice to get the full picture of lighting and all that.

 

[reefwiser]

Just look at this tank.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/420l-debora-dlugopolska.228703/
and this thread on RC
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2416047

Here is the guide:
http://aquaforest.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/GuideEnglishwww.pdf

I will be doing a interview on Aquaforest and one with Debroa coming up later this month.

 

[Myka]

From what I've gathered about Aquaforest, the idea is similar to Zeovit, Tropic Marin, etc. where probiotic bacteria are used in the method. This is not a new idea by any stretch of the mind, but the pricing on Aquaforest is much less than Zeovit or Tropic Marin. As with Zeovit and Tropic Marin, you don't have to make your corals pastel-colored; you control that with the food additives and carbon dosing.

What stands Aquaforest apart imo is that they have a full line of products for everything from FO tanks to high-demand SPS tanks. They have 3 salt mixes for various setups; Sea Salt for FO, Reef Salt for lower demand LPS and such, and Probiotic Reef Salt for high-demand SPS tanks. My understanding is that the Probiotic Reef Salt is the Reef Salt mix with the added probiotics and accompanying vitamin/amino mix. So if you don't want the probiotics, just use the Reef Salt. Aquaforest, like other brands, also offers a liquid biopellet alternative which could be attractive to many people.

There is already a significant following on Reef Central for this salt brand, and there are several people in the SPS Forum that have been switching to the Aquaforest probiotic method. It's too early to see long-term results. Aquaforest recently became a sponsor on RC too. In Canada, the three salts are available through Amazon.ca and the rest of the line is to follow soon as I understand. Stock has been spotty for the Probiotic Reef Salt. Their Sea Salt mix is actually cheaper than IO and gets delivered to your door with Free Shipping from Amazon. I'll be making the switch as soon as the full line is available on Amazon.

As far as Amazon goes, I think Aquaforest is shooting themselves in the foot. Vendors can't compete with the pricing and free shipping of the salts through Amazon, so I can't see too many vendors pushing (or even mentioning) the products to their clientele. Since Aquaforest must rely purely on online advertising through forums they are seriously limiting their playing field. The number of saltwater hobbyists that are on forums are a tiny fraction of the hobbyists that walk through the doors of the typical LFS.

I have no vested interest in Aquaforest. I'm just a hobbyist (and marine professional) that has been following Aquaforest with great interest. I'm not sure that this thread was started as an advertisement thread, but it certainly became one. Fairly tasteless, but I can understand someone grappling for advertising wherever possible.

 

[Big E]

There is already a significant following on Reef Central for this salt brand, and there are several people in the SPS Forum that have been switching to the Aquaforest probiotic method. It's too early to see long-term results. Aquaforest recently became a sponsor on RC too. In Canada, the three salts are available through Amazon.ca and the rest of the line is to follow soon as I understand. Stock has been spotty for the Probiotic Reef Salt. Their Sea Salt mix is actually cheaper than IO and gets delivered to your door with Free Shipping from Amazon. I'll be making the switch as soon as the full line is available on Amazon.

What significant following are you speaking of? I'm on the Sps section everyday. I see one person trying it & one or two "me too" reefers. It's been about 4 weeks since he started, so nothing really to talk about.

IO is commonly available to me at LFS and online------200g boxes for $40. This AF salt looks like it's $48 without the decades of success IO has.

 

[reefwiser]

Big E it's best that you stick with IO you love it no need to try something new keep plugging away. Head down working hard. It's always best to never try new things. [emoji106]

 

[Big E]

Big E it's best that you stick with IO you love it no need to try something new keep plugging away. Head down working hard. It's always best to never try new things. [emoji106]

Not sure if you're trying to be a jerk, because your comments aren't bringing any value to this thread.

I'm just trying to get clarification to the comments I quoted.

 

[reefwiser]

What significant following are you speaking of? I'm on the Sps section everyday. I see one person trying it & one or two "me too" reefers. It's been about 4 weeks since he started, so nothing really to talk about.

IO is commonly available to me at LFS and online------200g boxes for $40. This AF salt looks like it's $48 without the decades of success IO has.

You are talking about Matt's thread right?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2468548
Not Sahin thread who is getting ready to change over.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2449072
An you are not talking about Pawel thread?
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2416047&page=11

an so on and so on....There are quite a few doing it now really.

If you are a IO follower what do you care what others are doing just keep on keeping on. There is no "jerk" about it. Aquaforest is like Zeovit and other ultra low Phosphate systems. There are a lot of additives and work that you must do to create the Reef tanks that make your eye's pop out. This requires that the keeper not think about how cheap their 200 gallon box of salt is. Because there is a lot of time an effort that goes into a Pop your eye out of your head tank.

 

[Electrobes]

I think Myka said it well in the above comment regarding this thread.

I too have heard a lot about Aquaforest, and being an avid forum peruser can attest that quite a few of the more "famous" tanks out there are giving it a shot. But I believe it has a lot to do with a mix of variables, as opposed to the one all winning argument of whether AF is great or its all hype.

Between us, the consumers and the sellers is a wall. It's what they know about their products, and what we know. Sellers can and will claim things about their products, and we consumers can choose just how much to believe. It's this grey zone that causes quite a bit of strife and argument.. Just like here. Worst yet when you add in language barriers.

To me Randy is a knowledge/scenario machine. Feed him info and given his training and monstrous knowledge base, he will give you a fact based conclusion (As best as possible, given the quality of said information). We, hobbyists who need a simplified explanation of said conclusions interpret it in many ways.. Further (possibly) confusing or maybe even clarifying it.. Or both.

Here's my interpretation of what AF is trying to do with their products: Its a simpler kit to incorporate probiotics, bacteria, etc into reefing. It is not so much as new as it is more uniform and organized (And possibly cheaper.. I don't know as I follow another bacteria/carbon dosing method). They claim what each product does, but can't/won't tell us specifically what and how much is in each product (Be it a company secret or whatever, I don't know).

Given this info, Randy can only conclude with the actual facts given to him and what his education/training concludes to. I think too many people accept Randy's questioning and posts as attacks when they should just take the facts and come up with their own conclusions.

What makes this worse is the vast and often times confusing information regarding bacteria/N and P/Amino Acids/etc. It's a lot to take in for a crowd that often just wants to know whether they should do it or not.

My biggest point here is to use Randy (His articles alone will change your entire reefing world) as an education tool to permanently raise your deduction skills. It isn't easy but once done and redone threads like this won't become a war of extreme interpretations.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I periodically dose bromide and that makes the lps fat and puffy. At least for me in my tank. It looks like bromide is higher in this salt compared to numbers I have seen posted for some other salts.
I prefer deep rich color over pastels but these are some very beautiful tanks in the ads.

Have you ever measured bromide in your water to determine how much you'd want to dose?

My tank has excessive bromide, and without any dosing is nearly twice the NSW level. I'd rather it be lower.

 

[Big E]

If you are a IO follower what do you care what others are doing just keep on keeping on

It was stated that Aquaforest salt was less expensive than IO.........I haven't seen that anywhere on the web. I see no problem asking. Why do you care so much about my opinion/post?

Aquaforest is like Zeovit and other ultra low Phosphate systems. There are a lot of additives and work that you must do to create the Reef tanks that make your eye's pop out. This requires that the keeper not think about how cheap their 200 gallon box of salt is. Because there is a lot of time an effort that goes into a Pop your eye out of your head tank.

Lol..................I know all about Zeo and similar systems. I know full well how much time and effort it takes to produce an eye popping reef.

I'm only interested in people that are trying it out now so I can track their usage and experiences from the start. That is all I expect from any product or technology.........the proof is on the companies that sell anything for the hobby.

There is nothing to debate here.......not sure why you think there is.

 

[reefwiser]

The salt is not needed as part of the system they just produce it. It in itself will not do anything special it works in combination with the additives.

 

[Myka]

It was stated that Aquaforest salt was less expensive than IO

You misinterpreted my statement. The Aquaforest Sea Salt bought on Amazon (with free shipping) is cheaper than any recent Canadian pricing on IO, aside from when there is a sale. With the Canadian dollar so weak right now, salt prices (along with everything else) are skyrocketing. I just paid $8 for a small bunch of asparagus on Friday!

What significant following are you speaking of? I'm on the Sps section everyday. I see one person trying it & one or two "me too" reefers. It's been about 4 weeks since he started, so nothing really to talk about.

There are at least half a dozen doing the full probiotic line, maybe 10 SPS tanks in the SPS Forum on RC that have switched to the salt. They aren't all "famous" tanks, and they aren't all heavily advertising their use of Aquaforest. I did state that it's too early for anyone to make any long-term reports considering AF has only been available in the US since October IIRC.

 

[biom]

I don't see something very special or revolutionary new in Aquaforest products. And don't see something in their "method" that differs significantly from Red Sea's one or Tropic Marine, Fauna Marin or even Zeovit. Actually they have quite similar products - they offer probiotic salt just like Tropic Marine, zeolites like Zeovit and Fauna Marin, even they have product called Coral E that contain Copper Sulfate, very similar to KZ ZeoSpur etc. I don't see something wrong with this - if they can offer better price it is ok, but don't expect something new or better than the old players offer. Making artificial sea salt is not rocket science, the recipes are everywhere in the internet - the trick is to find big enough facilities capable to guarantee proper mixing and constant parameters from batch to batch.