anyone know anything about FW ich?

[Piscans]

Anyone know anything about freshwater ich? i am not sure if it is common ich or stress ich. should i wait a couple days, i dont want to get medicine if i dont have to. i just cleaned the tank over the last couple days stirring up tons of mulm and detritus. the spots have not been increasing in number and are only on certian fish (my rainbowfish and tetras) mabye they were stressed. is ich X ok and is it safe with platns?

 

[John Bolden]

I had ich and I added this salt stuff into the tank and cleared it up. I don't know that this was the fix but it cleared up right after I added. Normally I added 1 cup per 20 gallons. https://apifishcare.com/product/aquarium-salt

 

[Dr4gula.f32]

FW ich just turn the temp up to 80 for 10 days and you're good to go. No meds. Just temp.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Freshwater ich is different than marine ich, even though they appear visually similar.

Can you post pictures? I want to rule out other issues with FW fish that cause white spots.

Raising the temperature and adding salt both help with FW ich, but are useless for marine ich. The salt may damage your live plants. Here is a trick - using sea salt on FW is safer than using plain sodium chloride. The calcium in the sea salt lowers the salt toxicity to the FW fish.

Ich-X has malachite green in it I think, if so, it will kill your plants.

Jay

 

[Piscans]

Freshwater ich is different than marine ich, even though they appear visually similar.

Can you post pictures? I want to rule out other issues with FW fish that cause white spots.

Raising the temperature and adding salt both help with FW ich, but are useless for marine ich. The salt may damage your live plants. Here is a trick - using sea salt on FW is safer than using plain sodium chloride. The calcium in the sea salt lowers the salt toxicity to the FW fish.

Ich-X has malachite green in it I think, if so, it will kill your plants.

Jay

i cant get a pic but im 99% sure its ich, by sea salt do you mean like instant ocean? how much would i add if i used it? i ordered the ich x, i have not heard of it being dangerous tho on plants

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Malachite green is toxic to plants, it may be that the ich-x has less than a toxic dose in it, but I would be wary. The salt will kill some plants, most of the soft water ones. I know Vallesnaria is pretty salt resistant, and so are some Anubias.

Yes, Instant Ocean or any marine aquarium salt is safer to use than just plain sodium chloride. A typical dose is 2 ppt (2000 ppm). This works out to be 7.5 grams per gallon (check my math though!).

Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Anyone know anything about freshwater ich? i am not sure if it is common ich or stress ich. should i wait a couple days, i dont want to get medicine if i dont have to. i just cleaned the tank over the last couple days stirring up tons of mulm and detritus. the spots have not been increasing in number and are only on certian fish (my rainbowfish and tetras) mabye they were stressed. is ich X ok and is it safe with platns?

Stress ich is not a thing by the way. Stress does not introduce a parasite into the system. However! Stress can cause the fishs immune system to lower enough for a parasite to become visible. Ich likes to live in the gills, and can have a ‘dormancy’ period within the gills and remain unseen for weeks, and then stress to the fish causes it to become stronger and actually start taking over on the fishs body.

We’ve had many FW tanks appear healthy for up to 2 months and then as soon as we cause stress to the fish they are covered within the night or next day

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Freshwater ich is different than marine ich, even though they appear visually similar.

Can you post pictures? I want to rule out other issues with FW fish that cause white spots.

Raising the temperature and adding salt both help with FW ich, but are useless for marine ich. The salt may damage your live plants. Here is a trick - using sea salt on FW is safer than using plain sodium chloride. The calcium in the sea salt lowers the salt toxicity to the FW fish.

Ich-X has malachite green in it I think, if so, it will kill your plants.

Jay

Careful with raising temperature with freshwater Ich as if it is Epistylis it will kill the fish faster. I do believe Neo Ich can handle the temperature increases as well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Careful with raising temperature with freshwater Ich as if it is Epistylis it will kill the fish faster. I do believe Neo Ich can handle the temperature increases as well.

Epistylis is a commensal protozoan and doesn’t kill fish except maybe by secondary infection in severe cases.

Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Epistylis is a commensal protozoan and doesn’t kill fish except maybe by secondary infection in severe cases.

Jay

we have had a few cases where customers had epistylis and when following advice of forums to raise temperature they saw a mass die off within 48hrs of the temp increase. Neo Ich is much more aggressive and deadly on its own but we have seen the same results with it when temperatures have been increased.
The infections were not confirmed via a microscope so it will never be 100% confirmed whether it was epistylis but with the photos they provided us it visually presented as such.

Neo ich appears like regular ich but is much more clustered, appears on fins and bottom feeders first etc.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Epistylis is not parasitic, only an irritant where the stalk attaches to the fish's body. We had identified Neoichthyophthirius back in the 1980's but we didn't know what it was. We called it "hard ich".

Here are some excerpts from my fish disease book on these two topics:

Neoichthyophthirius
A similar disease has been identified in Russian literature. The journal that this disease was described in is not available in the English language. Using Google translate, some information was able to be extracted; They described the protozoan as Neoichthyophthirius schlotfeldti and it appears to produce a more coalescing, yellowish plaque on freshwater fishes. In that regard, it resembles more severe, end-stage ich. Under a microscope, the organism is rounded and its nucleus is so curved that it often closes back over itself like a ring. The trophont stage is 0.2 to 0.3 mm in diameter, as opposed to close to 1 mm in Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The most important difference is that N. schlotfeldti does not produce a cyst stage. This means that development can take place entirely on the fish’s skin, and the “tank transfer method” will not work as a control method. Additionally, N. schlotfeldti reproduces well at water temperatures as high as 34 degrees C. (93 degrees F.) so heat treatment is ineffective in a range tolerated by almost all fish species. It can also reproduce at temperatures as low as 18 degrees C. (64 degrees F.) so lowering the water temperature only works as a treatment for cool water fish species. It is thought to have come into aquariums from southeast Asia. Treatment is expected to be the same as for other ciliate infections.

Epistylis
Cause
Epistylis is a non-parasitic, opportunistic stalked protozoan that can form white colonies on a freshwater fish’s body, especially at the site of a previous injury. It can take time to develop, and is rarely, if ever fatal, but unlike the similar-looking viral Lymphocystis, the lesions rarely go away without treatment. Lesions formed by Epistylis are rounder, and have less distinctive edges than Lymphocystis does.

Symptoms
Microscopically, Epistylis can be readily identified as a protozoan. In freshwater fish, early Saprolegnea fungal infections are sometimes misidentified as Epistylis, but fungal infections can easily be identified by taking a scraping and looking at it under a low powered microscope.
For unknown reasons, some marine fish may begin to produce excess mucus on their edges of their fins. These white lesions may also resemble Epistylis but will appear smoother, and under a microscope, a scraping will show only round mucus cells.
Treatment
While most freshwater anti-protozoan treatments will have some control over this protozoan, if the fish can tolerate it, a long-term dose with sea salt at 3 ppt seems to work the best. As with all salt treatments, using sea salt is best; it seems that the calcium in those products helps mitigate the sodium toxicity seen in some when plain sodium chloride is used. Additionally, always remember that you must increase the salt content of the water very slowly, over a period of days. Assuming the freshwater fish are salt tolerant, reaching the target of 3 ppt should take at least three, preferably six days. Reducing the salt content can be done quite a bit faster, in just a day or two. Salt tolerance of freshwater fish is not an exact science, but there are some general trends:

All brackish water species are of course highly tolerant.
African rift lake cichlids are relatively tolerant of sea salt (to around 4 ppt)
Goldfish and koi can tolerate salt at 3 ppt
Freshwater rays may be intolerant of salt higher than 2 ppt
Most Amazonian fishes do not tolerate salt well
Rainbowfishes generally tolerate salt well
Bass and most panfish are salt tolerant

It is vital that salt/salinity is measured very accurately. The margin of error between the treatment dose and a dose that is injurious to the fish is very small. Refractometers can be used to good effect, with the electronic ones giving the best result.


Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Epistylis is not parasitic, only an irritant where the stalk attaches to the fish's body. We had identified Neoichthyophthirius back in the 1980's but we didn't know what it was. We called it "hard ich".

Here are some excerpts from my fish disease book on these two topics:

Neoichthyophthirius
A similar disease has been identified in Russian literature. The journal that this disease was described in is not available in the English language. Using Google translate, some information was able to be extracted; They described the protozoan as Neoichthyophthirius schlotfeldti and it appears to produce a more coalescing, yellowish plaque on freshwater fishes. In that regard, it resembles more severe, end-stage ich. Under a microscope, the organism is rounded and its nucleus is so curved that it often closes back over itself like a ring. The trophont stage is 0.2 to 0.3 mm in diameter, as opposed to close to 1 mm in Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The most important difference is that N. schlotfeldti does not produce a cyst stage. This means that development can take place entirely on the fish’s skin, and the “tank transfer method” will not work as a control method. Additionally, N. schlotfeldti reproduces well at water temperatures as high as 34 degrees C. (93 degrees F.) so heat treatment is ineffective in a range tolerated by almost all fish species. It can also reproduce at temperatures as low as 18 degrees C. (64 degrees F.) so lowering the water temperature only works as a treatment for cool water fish species. It is thought to have come into aquariums from southeast Asia. Treatment is expected to be the same as for other ciliate infections.

Epistylis
Cause
Epistylis is a non-parasitic, opportunistic stalked protozoan that can form white colonies on a freshwater fish’s body, especially at the site of a previous injury. It can take time to develop, and is rarely, if ever fatal, but unlike the similar-looking viral Lymphocystis, the lesions rarely go away without treatment. Lesions formed by Epistylis are rounder, and have less distinctive edges than Lymphocystis does.

Symptoms
Microscopically, Epistylis can be readily identified as a protozoan. In freshwater fish, early Saprolegnea fungal infections are sometimes misidentified as Epistylis, but fungal infections can easily be identified by taking a scraping and looking at it under a low powered microscope.
For unknown reasons, some marine fish may begin to produce excess mucus on their edges of their fins. These white lesions may also resemble Epistylis but will appear smoother, and under a microscope, a scraping will show only round mucus cells.
Treatment
While most freshwater anti-protozoan treatments will have some control over this protozoan, if the fish can tolerate it, a long-term dose with sea salt at 3 ppt seems to work the best. As with all salt treatments, using sea salt is best; it seems that the calcium in those products helps mitigate the sodium toxicity seen in some when plain sodium chloride is used. Additionally, always remember that you must increase the salt content of the water very slowly, over a period of days. Assuming the freshwater fish are salt tolerant, reaching the target of 3 ppt should take at least three, preferably six days. Reducing the salt content can be done quite a bit faster, in just a day or two. Salt tolerance of freshwater fish is not an exact science, but there are some general trends:

All brackish water species are of course highly tolerant.
African rift lake cichlids are relatively tolerant of sea salt (to around 4 ppt)
Goldfish and koi can tolerate salt at 3 ppt
Freshwater rays may be intolerant of salt higher than 2 ppt
Most Amazonian fishes do not tolerate salt well
Rainbowfishes generally tolerate salt well
Bass and most panfish are salt tolerant

It is vital that salt/salinity is measured very accurately. The margin of error between the treatment dose and a dose that is injurious to the fish is very small. Refractometers can be used to good effect, with the electronic ones giving the best result.


Jay

Thank you for this, super good info

 

[Boreas_SA]

If it is FW ich, just use Seachem Paraguard, safe with plants and shrimps. Had it twice in my high tech planted due to being careless with adding new fish straight from the store. Paraguard does kill it, takes about 2 weeks. Haven't seen any issues with plants or cherry shrimp either. I think I read somewhere people use it to treat shrimp disease too.

 

[fishgirljockey]

Anyone know anything about freshwater ich? i am not sure if it is common ich or stress ich. should i wait a couple days, i dont want to get medicine if i dont have to. i just cleaned the tank over the last couple days stirring up tons of mulm and detritus. the spots have not been increasing in number and are only on certian fish (my rainbowfish and tetras) mabye they were stressed. is ich X ok and is it safe with platns?

Use the Lifeguard All-In-One Treatment by Tetra. It works WONDERS. I been using it for years. I have cichlids at the moment, but I have had guppies and other type of fish who have gotten it. It goes away in just couple of days.

It's a 5 day treatment. It treats everything as well. GREAT STUFF! I recommend always carrying it regardless if your tank is healthy. I still use it once every 2 months just to prevent illnesses or catch anything I don't see. Make sure you take out the carbon when you do use it. Day 6 make a 25% water change. The dose is 1 tablet per 5g. I have a 20g long right now so that would be 4 pills. I drop them in each corner. It's okay if you see the fish eating it. They will spit it out. I have used it with snails and plecos and catfish; zero problems!

 

[Spare time]

Freshwater ich is different than marine ich, even though they appear visually similar.

Can you post pictures? I want to rule out other issues with FW fish that cause white spots.

Raising the temperature and adding salt both help with FW ich, but are useless for marine ich. The salt may damage your live plants. Here is a trick - using sea salt on FW is safer than using plain sodium chloride. The calcium in the sea salt lowers the salt toxicity to the FW fish.

Ich-X has malachite green in it I think, if so, it will kill your plants.

Jay

Do you know of a medicine that would be safer for plants and that would treat fw ich? My friend has fw ich in her nano at the moment which is heavily planted. I have no experience with fw. She also has inverts

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Do you know of a medicine that would be safer for plants and that would treat fw ich? My friend has fw ich in her nano at the moment which is heavily planted. I have no experience with fw. She also has inverts

Sorry, I’m not sure.
I don’t recall ever treating FW ich with plants or snails in the tank. I thought malachite green was toxic to plants but I just checked and some people say it is safe. Raising the temperature to 85 F is also a good idea.
There are those “tonic” herbal medications out there that will say they are safe for plants, but they are often safe for the ich parasite as well.
Jay

 

[vaguelyreeflike]

Do you know of a medicine that would be safer for plants and that would treat fw ich? My friend has fw ich in her nano at the moment which is heavily planted. I have no experience with fw. She also has inverts

Paraguard is probably your safest bet, it still can hurt inverts and plants but I’ve been dozing it in my heavily planted tank with shrimp and snails and they’ve all been fine. Paraguard should be treated for at least 7 days, + 3 days after the last signs of ich are gone if it disappears at the end of that cycle.

 

[Joj]

Kept FW fishes, neocaridina shrimps, and ramshorm snails in a planted tank (anubias, elodea, guppy grass, bacopa), water lettuce, duckweed) and doses ICH-X multiple times (different times period) and didn't affect my plants/shrimps/snails at all