Anyone still prefer the 10K look, or even 6.5K? What's with all the windex colored tanks?

BRS

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Interstingly arguable.
Imo, a reef tank is a "balance" between, nutrients, fish, cleanup crew, lights,
maintenance, and stable parameters.
Some can do it some cannot.
I have ran all lighting on different tanks with very small algae issues.
3 lfs have constant ongoing algae issues and they all run leds.
Its due to lack of ongoing maintenance, imo.

I will say most tanks having algae issues that wont go away are from people who have not figured out the dynamics of reef keeping.
In other words they do not have a complete grasp of what it takes to properly maintain a dynamic reef system.
Many friends have the same thoughts as I.
I run 14K phoenix, and have a dynamic reef system with no algae.
Thougths?
20210304_163711.jpg
 
RAP Orlando

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Still didn’t get a link, you’re a bear Neil. no offense taken


90s reefer what a great setup those look like suns, clean system and strong sps growth, very nice.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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nothing man I’m just joshing ya/cable guy meme


my opinion is that altering light intensity and blue white levels has suppression or boosting effects in algae battles/ jobs where people want bad tanks fixed. If you found other patterns to matter more and that above isnt one, ok accepted.
 

Steve Erekson

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I don’t keep detailed ‘logs’ of all the things I do to my tank- and I’d be willing to bet the logs you keep are deficient in most of the factors that would make parsing out the happenings of a Complex ecosystem like a tank. Anecdotal observations are fine, but you try to give your threads an air of scientific legitimacy that I find a little beyond the pale.

The plural of anecdote is not data.
 

neilp2006

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Interstingly arguable.
Imo, a reef tank is a "balance" between, nutrients, fish, cleanup crew, lights,
maintenance, and stable parameters.
Some can do it some cannot.
I have ran all lighting on different tanks with very small algae issues.
3 lfs have constant ongoing algae issues and they all run leds.
Its due to lack of ongoing maintenance, imo.

I will say most tanks having algae issues that wont go away are from people who have not figured out the dynamics of reef keeping.
In other words they do not have a complete grasp of what it takes to properly maintain a dynamic reef system.
Many friends have the same thoughts as I.
I run 14K phoenix, and have a dynamic reef system with no algae.
Thougths?
20210304_163711.jpg
I agree

I haven’t had an algae issue in my main tank in years, took 6 months to balance out and then it was fine

only tanks I have issues in are temporary holding tanks, or, for example- my new observation tanks I set up while I moved my system. I haven’t equipped them with dosing or even proper water change schedule, and I’m seeing algae. I don’t have the time to commit to them that I did for may main tank, so the balance is off. I expect a couple months of issues in my new display once I get it going again, but I do t anticipate having long term uncontrollable issues. Because I have experience now.
I think most of the issues seen in those threads are due to inexperience, and they are popular also because the ‘customers’ are inexperienced and don’t know that these ‘work threads’ are one of many approaches that could be taken, and aren’t definitive.
 

neilp2006

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nothing man I’m just joshing ya/cable guy meme


my opinion is that altering light intensity and blue white levels has effects in algae battles/ jobs where people want bad tanks fixed. If you found other patterns to matter more and that above isnt one, ok accepted.
Of course changing light affects algae. It’s photosynthetic.

But what’s the underlying issue? You suggest I change the spectrum permanently to remove the threat? What if I don’t like windex tanks (I don’t- natural reefs are never that blue, so why is my ecosystem in a box?) - it’ll just come back once I put my spectrum back closer to daylight.

Algae needs nutrients AND light. Permanent fix requires taking away the food source- then the other parameter becomes irrelevant, and you can keep a clean tank in 6500k daylight all you want. You’ll also get Dino issues due to ULN, but ok.
Also- every coral reef I’ve dove in 3 oceans has algae. It’s about ecological balance, not eradication of ‘pest’ organisms. That’s a human construct and isn’t natural
 
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2Wheelsonly

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I take issue with this whole statement. Lighting does not cause GHA. Nutrients cause algae growth. Now the color may bring it to a head, but it's it's not the underlying issue.
Scrubbing and ripping tanks apart isn't the cure all either. You can't get every bad thing out of a tank. It stays there waiting for it's opportunity to thrive. When it's right it thrives. When it's not it stays in the backround waiting for it's opportunity.

In my experience @brandon429 is 100% correct. My frag tank has always had a clean look with hardly any algae (minimal cleanup crew) with low nutrients (po4 0.01 and no2 1-2). I turned up whites on my reef breeders for 2 weeks and my god the algae that grew was insane. I am back two weeks into blues/violets/uv only (looks WAAAAAAY better too) and all the algae is practically gone again.

I have the same experience in my display but algae usually doesn't last if it grows anywhere as my tang army keeps it algae free no matter how much I attempt to let it grow.

White LEDs look like garbage IMO. The only time I have ever preferred the white look is on a softy tank and even then it has to be MH or bust with whites. When I see tanks with 10k below using T5 and LED to achieve that look it always just looks so dirty and ugly to me. I'm not sure what it is with those cool white LED lights (esp ecotechs) but they just seem to bring out the worst in tanks in my opinion. MH is the only lighting out there that looks like the sun shining through the water.
 

neilp2006

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In my experience @brandon429 is 100% correct. My frag tank has always had a clean look with hardly any algae (minimal cleanup crew) with low nutrients (po4 0.01 and no2 1-2). I turned up whites on my reef breeders for 2 weeks and my god the algae that grew was insane. I am back two weeks into blues/violets/uv only (looks WAAAAAAY better too) and all the algae is practically gone again.

I have the same experience in my display but algae usually doesn't last if it grows anywhere as my tang army keeps it algae free no matter how much I attempt to let it grow.
Turn your whites up and take a closer look. If you don’t have green in your illumination spectrum, plants can’t reflect it. They’ll literally go invisible.

my frag tank looks amazing at 7am and 8pm... when whites are off. Not so amazing at noon

But yeah- of course- if your lights don’t contain the wavelengths required for chlorophyll based photosynthesis- it won’t grow. Also your low nutrients are inhibiting growth to an extent.
We aren’t arguing that running blues result in lower algae- that’s obvious botany. We have issue with saying ‘it’s the cure’ to algae issues, when the better way is to control nutrients and light the tank to YOUR preference, NOT running all blue all the time to bias for lack of algae.

I actually had to dose nitrate and phosphate in my display. 5ppm and 0.15ppm. Redfield ratio. Then I tweaked the levels a little and my overall white light to my preference during the day. So I have proper nutrients and run 6500k for 8 hours- no algae. So it can be done. It’s about balance
 
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2Wheelsonly

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The issue I have with your ‘work threads’ is, frankly, your syntax. It is extremely hard to parse exactly what you are trying to say most of the time, and the rest of the time you say stuff with absolutely zero actual data, such as the link between LED and GHA that you propose here, and that calore also brought up a couple posts ago.

I mean no disrespect, but as a life long academic scientist, I kinda think it’s funny at the attempts in your threads to sound scientific, while playing science, but changing so many variables at once.
I wouldn’t even presume that I could control a complex biome like a reef tank to the point where I would make as definitive claims as you do. You may be seeing positive results in GHA etc, and other things in your ‘sand washing work threads’ but there is zero consideration for what doing those things affects on a ‘global’ tank scale. Yes- you got clean sand- you also kicked up and released more silica, leading to diatoms, you destroyed the niche balance that prevents more serious issues (note the several people in your thread mentioning they got amphodinium after doing your ‘protocol’, which only gets them admonished that they ‘did something wrong’) and just because you meet your primary endpoint- clean sand, no GHA- you call it a success but don’t appreciate that other issues are coming to the fore

I don’t do reefing full time. Up until 2 years ago- I ran an Ivy League bio lab developing viral vaccines and gene therapies. I know science, I understand controls. I know how to keep proper scientific records. Now- mainly due to the pandemic- I’m a SAHD dad to two toddlers out of daycare and I’m homeschooling. I also just moved house. I don’t have the time, nor, frankly, the inclination to get into scientific type debates with unqualified people as part of a hobby.

I don’t keep detailed ‘logs’ of all the things I do to my tank- and I’d be willing to bet the logs you keep are deficient in most of the factors that would make parsing out the happenings of a Complex ecosystem like a tank. Anecdotal observations are fine, but you try to give your threads an air of scientific legitimacy that I find a little beyond the pale.

anyway- this appears to have turned into a rant. Wasn’t my intention. But I didn’t appreciate the tone of calling me out to share my ‘notes’ and the sarcasm behind ‘always a helpful contributor’. That was uncalled for. I contribute where I can to the extent that a 20 year hobby in reefing and 2 advanced degrees in microbiology allow me to. I don’t profess to have ‘work threads’ or play ‘fake science’ with my, or anyone else’s, tank.

A lot of words to describe how much someone you don't know on the internet bothers you. I suggest disconnecting for a while and enjoying life.
 

90's reefer

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I agree

I haven’t had an algae issue in my main tank in years, took 6 months to balance out and then it was fine

only tanks I have issues in are temporary holding tanks, or, for example- my new observation tanks I set up while I moved my system. I haven’t equipped them with dosing or even proper water change schedule, and I’m seeing algae. I don’t have the time to commit to them that I did for may main tank, so the balance is off. I expect a couple months of issues in my new display once I get it going again, but I do t anticipate having long term uncontrollable issues. Because I have experience now.
I think most of the issues seen in those threads are due to inexperience, and they are popular also because the ‘customers’ are inexperienced and don’t know that these ‘work threads’ are one of many approaches that could be taken, and aren’t definitive.
My 120 and 45 took around 6 months to balance out also.
I changed both from heavy T5 lighting to MH' with no algae growth seen in either.
Take a look at the Glen Fong method when you get some time.
He has a few posts here.
I would be interested in your opinion.
I run a modified version of the EZ method.
I run a carx instead of dosing ca and alk.
Biggest advantage for me is a no scheduled water change system.
You can pm me if you like.
 

ca1ore

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archaic English grammar
LOL .... I don't think its that ..... no doth's, whilst's, ye's or references to any of us as knaves. It would actually be funny to write a post or two in olde english ..... maybe I will do that ..... clearly I need a hobby .... oh, never mind.
 

neilp2006

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In my experience @brandon429 is 100% correct. My frag tank has always had a clean look with hardly any algae (minimal cleanup crew) with low nutrients (po4 0.01 and no2 1-2). I turned up whites on my reef breeders for 2 weeks and my god the algae that grew was insane. I am back two weeks into blues/violets/uv only (looks WAAAAAAY better too) and all the algae is practically gone again.

I have the same experience in my display but algae usually doesn't last if it grows anywhere as my tang army keeps it algae free no matter how much I attempt to let it grow.

White LEDs look like garbage IMO. The only time I have ever preferred the white look is on a softy tank and even then it has to be MH or bust with whites. When I see tanks with 10k below using T5 and LED to achieve that look it always just looks so dirty and ugly to me. I'm not sure what it is with those cool white LED lights (esp ecotechs) but they just seem to bring out the worst in tanks in my opinion. MH is the only lighting out there that looks like the sun shining through the water.
Point source vs spread out arrangement.
That’s literally the reason for the ‘sparkle’. Physics.

I can put my iPhone light up above my tank, and it blows away the shimmer I used to get by MH. Single led point source bs larger arc point source . Put a t5 light up there with a 4 foot tube- no point source, no shimmer
 

2Wheelsonly

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Turn your whites up and take a closer look. If you don’t have green in your illumination spectrum, plants can’t reflect it. They’ll literally go invisible.

my frag tank looks amazing at 7am and 8pm... when whites are off. Not so amazing at noon

But yeah- of course- if your lights don’t contain the wavelengths required for chlorophyll based photosynthesis- it won’t grow. Also your low nutrients are inhibiting growth to an extent.
We aren’t arguing that running blues result in lower algae- that’s obvious botany. We have issue with saying ‘it’s the cure’ to algae issues, when the better way is to control nutrients and light the tank to YOUR preference, NOT running all blue all the time to bias for lack of algae.

I actually had to dose nitrate and phosphate in my display. 5ppm and 0.15ppm. Redfield ratio. Then I tweaked the levels a little and my overall white light to my preference during the day. So I have proper nutrients and run 6500k for 8 hours- no algae. So it can be done. It’s about balance
I did, the thing is I clean it and it doesn't come back. I like to keep the black walls of my tank clean and black. It's clear when algae is growing on it.

It's straight forward, IF I add the whites for more par (I usually just turn them up when i'm not there to view the ugly 10k look) I see algae grow. If I clean the tank and keep the whites down the algae doesn't come back, when I turn the whites back up for a week or so it starts to grow back but that doesn't happen with the blue.
 
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neilp2006

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I did, the thing is I clean it and it doesn't come back. I like to keep the black walls of my tank clean and black. It's clear when algae is growing on it.

It's straight forward, IF I add the whites for more par (I usually just turn them up when i'm not there to view the ugly 10k look) I see algae grow. If I clean the tank and keep the whites down the algae doesn't come back, when I turn the whites back up for a week or so it starts to grow back but that doesn't happen with the blue.
Yes

like I said- you aren’t feeding it the correct wavelengths for photosynthesis. Basic biology/ botany.
I don’t have issue with that. I explained what my issues are in my post
 

neilp2006

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My 120 and 45 took around 6 months to balance out also.
I changed both from heavy T5 lighting to MH' with no algae growth seen in either.
Take a look at the Glen Fong method when you get some time.
He has a few posts here.
I would be interested in your opinion.
I run a modified version of the EZ method.
I run a carx instead of dosing ca and alk.
Biggest advantage for me is a no scheduled water change system.
You can pm me if you like.
I’ll look into it. I’m at homeschool right now, ironically talking about photosynthesis to a 4 year old.
 
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