Apex classic rebooting every 10 minutes

Discussion in 'Neptune Systems' started by Aaronhome27, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Aaronhome27

    Aaronhome27 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    I had a few hiccups when I first set up my classic. I found that a wireless router just doesn't work on this unit for wifi functionality. After a lot of troubleshooting with members here as well as neptune rep I replaced the net gear router (that is recommended on the neptune site) with a powerline adapter that was recommended here. Had I know all that I would have just gone with the 2016 model because in the end it would have been cheaper. Nonetheless I own it and it has been working great for 2 months or so on the powerline adapter till last night.

    I was sitting in my living room and I noticed my Apex went through a reboot cycle. Shutting down everything then back up it went. It had never done that before. So I watched to see what could be going on. It did it again a few minutes later. After 4 or 5 reboot I unplugged the eithernet from the powerline adapter and rebooted my home router. I waited a while and the Apex never boot cycled again. So I connected the powerline back up and sure enough it went into the reboot cycle again. It was late so I unplugged the powerline again to make sure it wouldn't reboot once I went to bed. It never did it again.

    Next morning I reboot my home wifi again. Reconnect the Apex to the powerline adapter and it hasn't done the reboot cycle again. I have no clue why it was doing this. I hadn't changed a thing since the system was set up and finally running without issue. Then for no apparent reason the boot cycle began. Then it was gone. I'd like to prevent that from happening again but I can't replicate it. My concern is burning up some pumps if I'm gone and it does a long series of reboot. I didn't get any alarms by text or email. The system log only showed one loss of power that was never sent as a warning. This issue was fixed by unplugging internet from the system overnight.
     
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  2. MSB123

    MSB123 Someone out there put something smart here. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa Santa Barbara Reef Co-Op Build Thread Contributor

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  3. rkpetersen

    rkpetersen walked the sand with the crustaceans R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Partner Member 2019

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    I remember your previous posts. You were having problems with an adapter that were solved (at least temporarily) with the powerline. I can't help you a lot as I don't have that model of Apex. I don't remember, have you tried a long ethernet cord, even temporarily, and does it work properly or does the problem recur?
     
  4. Aaronhome27

    Aaronhome27 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Thanks for the response.

    It's odd. It hasn't done it since. It reset atleast half a dozen times that night till I pulled the ethernet cable. It was late so I just left it unhooked till I could mess with it the next day. Then the next morning I plugged it back in and it's been working fine since. I had planned to run a temp hardwire to it til I got it figured out but now it's running smooth again. Since I switched to a powerline adapter I hadn't had any issues like I did with the router. This was the first issue. But seeing as it hasn't had any other issues but that one time my concern is that it was the Apex or a software issue. I still have bugs with things like the feed timer not always turning pumps back on (this happens right off the head unit as well) but I've learned to just live with them.
     
  5. Aaronhome27

    Aaronhome27 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    This problem still persists. What I have found is once in a while my internet service (mediacom) will have issue. I'll go from 100mbps download to 10 mbps. As well my upload drops down to 1 mbps. When this happens my Apex will reboot upon losing internet connection. I was running a speed test when it restarted. During the speed test there was a drop of service just for a spli second or two. With that drop out of internet service I had my Apex reset where everything had to restart. When I went through the troubleshooting in the beginning of this install I was told if problems persist I'd have to run a hardwire which isn't possible. I guess I don't see how this hasn't been an issue but for a just a few people. Of course I know most hardwire this unit though. It just seems to be it is a fixable issues. I'll try to get a ticket through neptune again. I hate to be that guy but darn it I can't have the system doing this. Especially if I'm not home and I'm not there to catch it. I can see it frying some electronics.
     
  6. MSB123

    MSB123 Someone out there put something smart here. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa Santa Barbara Reef Co-Op Build Thread Contributor

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    It’s your internets issue. Contact your ISP.
     
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  7. Aaronhome27

    Aaronhome27 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Although I agree it is my isp. The Apex should not crash due to lack of internet. There should be a failsafe to keep it from restarting everything everytime there is an internet issue. Internet is never reliable anywhere. It is always prone to issues. That's like saying your computer should restart every 10 minutes when the internet is not perfect.
     
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  8. MSB123

    MSB123 Someone out there put something smart here. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa Santa Barbara Reef Co-Op Build Thread Contributor

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    If the internet that your apex is connecting to goes out, your apex will go offline. The apex does not connect to satellite. It depends on your internet.
     
  9. Aaronhome27

    Aaronhome27 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    See that's the issue. It doesn't just go offline, it reboots everytime. I'd be fine with going offline till internet is back up. That's the reason for the post. And if it's on and off with connectivity it continually reboots shutting off everything.
     
  10. MSB123

    MSB123 Someone out there put something smart here. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa Santa Barbara Reef Co-Op Build Thread Contributor

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  11. MSB123

    MSB123 Someone out there put something smart here. R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award R2R Secret Santa Santa Barbara Reef Co-Op Build Thread Contributor

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  12. saltyhog

    saltyhog blowing bubbles somewhere R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019

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    That does not sound like just an Internet issue. The only thing I noticed when my unit is off-line is that notification and the inability to turn things on and off manually. My unit still functions normally and still runs my dosing pumps at the settings it last had before losing Internet connectivity. I would go ahead and start a ticket with Neptune. They may have to set up an appointment and connect directly to your apex to diagnose the problem.

    I previously had my Apex hard wired but the new house that I live in now has a concrete floor where the aquarium is. My solution was to change to a nodal router. I set one of the nodes next to the aquarium and am able to hardwire my Apex directly to the node.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  13. Javamahn

    Javamahn Active Member

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    This is a known but officially unconfirmed issue. The apex system expects to connect with Apex fusion and when the heartbeat goes out for a period of time the system reboots to re-establish connection. This is again unconfirmed officially but many have experienced the same issue you are having including myself. In the end my dd-wrt router was not able to maintain a solid connection and so I took it out of the network and ran directly to the ISP provided wifi. That solved the network issues and I have not had a reboot since.
     
  14. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    How do you know its rebooting?
    Apex classic green LEDs reset come on and off every few min no matter what which could have given you an impression that system is rebooting.
    All 4 or 5 green. LEDs will come on and off every few min on a classic.
    You have to have Neptune apex utility program running on a PC connected to same network in order to see the state of apex.
    If it's in boot loader or running OS or rebooting.
    Without that software it's hard to say if unit is rebooting or not.
    Also in classic if system reboots all you pumps and lights etc will go off temporarily for few sec Till system comes back up.

    I would also force a firmware update on the classic even if you are on current just to make sure there wasn't something that got corrupt during Install.
     
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  15. Javamahn

    Javamahn Active Member

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    In my case I would receive a text notification regarding fusion heartbeat and all of my outlets would shut down then power back up. Lighting and pumps would be cycled and it would take minutes for them to return to normal operation. This would occur multiple times daily until I repaired my LAN issues.
     
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  16. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    this doesnt sound realistic that if there is no internet apex brain will restart to establish connection. If this is the way they designed it (which i highly doubt) then people that dont want it on net and just wanna use it locally for monitoring etc are screwed.
    There has to be something in the software for it to crash and reboot or some interference in hardware to trigger software to reboot.

    I would first make sure using the apex utility if system is really changing states.
    then force a firmware on the classic even if its on latest. i would do it again. there are many small files updated during firmware update and any one of those could be corrupt.
    If that doesnt solve the issue i would take everything off the apex and plug each item/device/probe one by one.
    Starting with each module with 1link or aquabus cable letting it run making sure its not the issue then moving on to other modules. Then probes, then outlets and lastly net.

    Note: updating Apex classic requires a direct ethernet cable from router to apex brain. running it over wifi or indirectly can cause problems.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  17. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 R2R Secret Santa Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Hospitality Award

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    Just reading along. I hardwired mine even though it was difficult running the Ethernet wire.
     
  18. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    I had mine for 15 yrs on a wifi bridge. my setup is in the garage with no hardwire ethernet possible. Even now its running on bridge while i am using it on my 6 tanks for bacteria study. 2016 model is on wifi.
    I had to roll out my 100ft cable when i had to do updates and run it directly from router to apex classic brain, also i had to set my laptop in safe mode with networking in order to update firmware otherwise it would get stuck.
     
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  19. saltyhog

    saltyhog blowing bubbles somewhere R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019

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    I do not have the "heartbeat" feature activated that I know of. Could that have something to do with it?
     
  20. homer1475

    homer1475 Active Member

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    I have wonky internet, and I had the same issue in the past. Apex rebooting(yes everything turns off, then back on). When I contacted neptune about the issue they remoted into my apex, and I was told that because I kept loosing internet, the apex reboots itself to try and reestablish connection to fusion, and will continue to do so every 10 to 15 minutes to try and reestablish connection.

    I also have the issue if I'm torrenting and using all my bandwidth.

    This is the way it was designed. If it was never connected to fusion(IE locally) then dropping of the connection is not an issue.
     
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