Apex... Really, This is what I get for my money?

[TangerineSpeedo]

Oh, where do I start... I originally was going to go with Hydros, but with the winds of corporate change in the air, I decided to go with Apex. I initially bought the ATO/ATK, then got a good deal on the V2 complete system because I wanted to salinity probe.
Set everything up/ got every plugged in. My first concern was getting the ATK running so I could stop doing it manually. Well for what ever reason, it worked the first day, then stopped. The sensor would say open but the PMUP would not turn on. I could, through the interface turn on the PMUP and manually fill it. I was checking the connections/ pulled the all out and put them back in. Then it started working. OK... great, I think. how long is this going to last? That let me move on to the bigger things.
This is what I needed to do to make my system work.
Temp probe Recalibrate by .06 deg.
PH probe Not use 4.0 and 10.0 calibration packets provided. Those were off. I use Atlas Scientific calibration fluids and those seem pretty accurate for my needs. Once I calibrated with that good to go.
Salinity The provided packet read low but that really didn’t matter because the probe in my sump read 49 ppt. So I had to purchase a VCA module and a small pump. Also come to find out the TC is turned off in the factory settings. Look, if you sell a system WITH a temperature probe, do not send it out the door with the TC turned off. Now with the adjustments and additions, it is stabile and on the mark. Oh I had to use the Hanna 35ppt to calibrate it.
ORP Well working on that.

Look, even though the system has a decent UI/UX, it is not intuitive. It is not an Iphone. The programing is basic, It reminds me of putting in swear words on computers in Sears in the 80's and hit "LOOP" then "RUN" but there is not a guide that I have found yet that has a list of Rules and Commands. I am aware that Apex has a forum... but.

I know, once I get this down, it will be better than my grandma's banana bread. But for the price point. Why should your system not come with all the things to make it work properly out of the box? Why do I have to use other manufacturers products to get yours to work proper? Why do I have to spend $40 bucks for a probe holder that doesn’t come with your product? Did you want your expensive probes rolling around in the bottom of a sump?
The system should be more plug and play. This is not a new product, this should have been worked out by now. In fact the V3 nothing has really changed except they technically eliminated a FMM module and a salinity probe.
Is it worth the money? Maybe, the jury is still out. But the box should be clearly marked. Box contains "Frustration" and has Parts Missing!

 

[Tamberav]

I mean.. I definitly do not buy everything apex... the ATK has pretty crap reviews on BRS while the Tunze is rocking it! Soooo I put the tunze on my apex

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I mean.. I definitly do not buy everything apex... the ATK has pretty crap reviews on BRS while the Tunze is rocking it! Soooo I put the tunze on my apex

I did look at the Tunze but 1. Not in stock. 2. the way my sump is laid out it wasn't going to work for me/ difficult.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Probe calibration isn't a big deal IMHO, frankly that's part of the gig.

At least you were on the ball about the vca kit for the salinity probe, you want to talk about a turd...

Apex is what it is because of great marketing, not because it's a superior product. I'm frankly glad the hydros is out now, as it's forcing Neptune to try to get back to innovation on the aquarium controller game. I'm planning a hydros on one of the tanks in the not so distant future.

I'm also with @Tamberav , that ATK will crap the bed. I BTDT, got tired of changing optical sensors every 6 or so months. I diy'ed my own ATO setup with float switches and a 'bob' and use apex to cycle the ATO pump on/off. Haven't had problems in years.

The programming language is like uber simplistic boolean syntax. They can't make it anymore complicated due to frankly the user base is too non tech savvy to figure it out. Look at the Neptune forums or Facebook page to see the several head palm postings... No one wants to read the comprehensive manual and never will.

With Love (lol)

- a user with a few A1 & apex jr's in service

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Probe calibration isn't a big deal IMHO, frankly that's part of the gig.

At least you were on the ball about the vca kit for the salinity probe, you want to talk about a turd...

Apex is what it is because of great marketing, not because it's a superior product. I'm frankly glad the hydros is out now, as it's forcing Neptune to try to get back to innovation on the aquarium controller game. I'm planning a hydros on one of the tanks in the not so distant future.

I'm also with @Tamberav , that ATK will crap the bed. I BTDT, got tired of changing optical sensors every 6 or so months. I diy'ed my own ATO setup with float switches and a 'bob' and use apex to cycle the ATO pump on/off. Haven't had problems in years.

The programming language is like uber simplistic boolean syntax. They can't make it anymore complicated due to frankly the user base is too non tech savvy to figure it out. Look at the Neptune forums or Facebook page to see the several head palm postings... No one wants to read the comprehensive manual and never will.

With Love (lol)

- a user with a few A1 & apex jr's in service

I agree Probe calibration shouldn't be a big deal, I do it all the time with my Hanna Salinity and PH. But at least give me the tools to do it correctly.
I know we already had our talk about CoralVue and Hydros and I am not ruling them out. if this was 6 months ago I would have a Hydros now, and I still may. Still have 5 more tanks which Hydros is good at multiple tanks one controller. As far as the ATK goes technically it crapped the bed after the first day but I changed a very simple line code from max run time from 5min to 1min. Because I thought if the pump ran for 5 mins it would overflow the sump. But apparently I forgot the old PC days that with any changes you have to restart. Yes, it is just growing pains, but maybe I feel I did this type of stuff 20-40 years ago. Back then it was new and exciting and you accepted all the flaws or not and created a new programming language. I don't even mind its programming language, but I think it is unnecessary in todays UIUX.
Anyway, this is really just a rant. I see the value, just not what I paid, which was a lot cheaper than pre- release V3.
Anyway this whole process started when during our last heat wave, one of my chillers on my temperate tank blew a fuse and I lost half the tank during the night. I felt if I had some sort of alarm, I could have avoided the calamity.
Thanks bud... when we doin beers?

 

[ssdawood]

I am not a fan boy of Neptune so I am not defending them.

I read on BRS last week that us Hobbiest expect lab grade probes for hobby grade prices.

Temp probe calibrated by 0.06?
We only need to make sure our tanks stay consistent and under 82 degress and over 75, 76 degrees.

Salinity probe is garbage. At 199 I don't think any continously reading probe will be accurate.

ATK I don't have much experience. Always used Tunze.

Now Fusion app is very easy to program.
For Temp it say High, Low all you have do is numbers.
Same with Powerhead oscillate command.

I think you got overwhelmed. Some of us had this for 10 plus years. So we added stuff overtime. You trying to do everything in one day is overwhelming.

I find it amusing that you were manually topping off your tank while have hanna ph and Salinity probes.
Worrying about Temperature being off 0.06 degrees.

Neptune has it problems, but everything you wrote is nitpicking.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Oh, where do I start... I originally was going to go with Hydros, but with the winds of corporate change in the air, I decided to go with Apex. I initially bought the ATO/ATK, then got a good deal on the V2 complete system because I wanted to salinity probe.
Set everything up/ got every plugged in. My first concern was getting the ATK running so I could stop doing it manually. Well for what ever reason, it worked the first day, then stopped. The sensor would say open but the PMUP would not turn on. I could, through the interface turn on the PMUP and manually fill it. I was checking the connections/ pulled the all out and put them back in. Then it started working. OK... great, I think. how long is this going to last? That let me move on to the bigger things.
This is what I needed to do to make my system work.
Temp probe Recalibrate by .06 deg.
PH probe Not use 4.0 and 10.0 calibration packets provided. Those were off. I use Atlas Scientific calibration fluids and those seem pretty accurate for my needs. Once I calibrated with that good to go.
Salinity The provided packet read low but that really didn’t matter because the probe in my sump read 49 ppt. So I had to purchase a VCA module and a small pump. Also come to find out the TC is turned off in the factory settings. Look, if you sell a system WITH a temperature probe, do not send it out the door with the TC turned off. Now with the adjustments and additions, it is stabile and on the mark. Oh I had to use the Hanna 35ppt to calibrate it.
ORP Well working on that.

Look, even though the system has a decent UI/UX, it is not intuitive. It is not an Iphone. The programing is basic, It reminds me of putting in swear words on computers in Sears in the 80's and hit "LOOP" then "RUN" but there is not a guide that I have found yet that has a list of Rules and Commands. I am aware that Apex has a forum... but.

I know, once I get this down, it will be better than my grandma's banana bread. But for the price point. Why should your system not come with all the things to make it work properly out of the box? Why do I have to use other manufacturers products to get yours to work proper? Why do I have to spend $40 bucks for a probe holder that doesn’t come with your product? Did you want your expensive probes rolling around in the bottom of a sump?
The system should be more plug and play. This is not a new product, this should have been worked out by now. In fact the V3 nothing has really changed except they technically eliminated a FMM module and a salinity probe.
Is it worth the money? Maybe, the jury is still out. But the box should be clearly marked. Box contains "Frustration" and has Parts Missing!

Did you do research before spending your hard earned bucks?

You will find many threads about Apex, Profilux and others.

They're all as bad as each other in terms of support and complexity.

Nothing is a simple as you would like.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I am not a fan boy of Neptune so I am not defending them.

I read on BRS last week that us Hobbiest expect lab grade probes for hobby grade prices.

Temp probe calibrated by 0.06?
We only need to make sure our tanks stay consistent and under 82 degress and over 75, 76 degrees.

Salinity probe is garbage. At 199 I don't think any continously reading probe will be accurate.

ATK I don't have much experience. Always used Tunze.

Now Fusion app is very easy to program.
For Temp it say High, Low all you have do is numbers.
Same with Powerhead oscillate command.

I think you got overwhelmed. Some of us had this for 10 plus years. So we added stuff overtime. You trying to do everything in one day is overwhelming.

I find it amusing that you were manually topping off your tank while have hanna ph and Salinity probes.
Worrying about Temperature being off 0.06 degrees.

Neptune has it problems, but everything you wrote is nitpicking.

LOL.. well yes, the temp probe was the easiest to solve. And yes, if this was 10 years ago... but its not.
Yes, I am being nitpicky because I am a consumer that knows what is possible. I don't know if the salinity probe is garbage, but after my tweaks, no thanks to Neptune. it is accurate within +/- .2 of my hanna and so far it is consistent. But my point is, at that price point or even with today's technology it shouldn’t have to be this way. I am running six tanks I need consistency with my tools I use to maintain them or life becomes very difficult...
As far as manually topping off the 40g, it is a new tank and I haven’t yet decided what system I wanted to use. Not all my systems can use and ATO, my surge tank is a constant variable so I can not use an ATO so I rely on a salinity probe to let me know where I am at.
Yes I tried to do it in one day, well two weeks so far. so it frustrates me it is delaying other projects.
Did you not get from my tag line I am OCD?
Love!

 

[am3gross]

Well, I am a Neptune fan boy, as I have all the gear, well up to the latest stuff that has came out, I don't have that yet. For me I did not get it all at the same time, So my learning and cramming of needing to know was in small increments. I will say this, I don't put all my eggs in one basket when it comes to the gear. I have cameras that watch the tank and I do manual tests often. Only real reason I have all the gear is because I leave the area constantly for months at a time and the apex does allow me to have some control. The numbers that it puts out just lets me know when something is starting to drift, which I usually catch with the manual tests anyways.

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

LOL.. well yes, the temp probe was the easiest to solve. And yes, if this was 10 years ago... but its not.
Yes, I am being nitpicky because I am a consumer that knows what is possible. I don't know if the salinity probe is garbage, but after my tweaks, no thanks to Neptune. it is accurate within +/- .2 of my hanna and so far it is consistent. But my point is, at that price point or even with today's technology it shouldn’t have to be this way. I am running six tanks I need consistency with my tools I use to maintain them or life becomes very difficult...
As far as manually topping off the 40g, it is a new tank and I haven’t yet decided what system I wanted to use. Not all my systems can use and ATO, my surge tank is a constant variable so I can not use an ATO so I rely on a salinity probe to let me know where I am at.
Yes I tried to do it in one day, well two weeks so far. so it frustrates me it is delaying other projects.
Did you not get from my tag line I am OCD?
Love!

You do know there is an advanced user manual on their website? Sounds like you need to read it. Everything you complain about is covered there.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Did you do research before spending your hard earned bucks?

You will find many threads about Apex, Profilux and others.

They're all as bad as each other in terms of support and complexity.

Nothing is a simple as you would like.

Well, yes I did do some research, but you get sucked in by the potential... And yes, most the stuff you read is by ppl. who already figured it out.
I am smart enough to figure out the work arounds, but my point is at this price point I shouldn’t have to.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Well, yes I did do some research, but you get sucked in by the potential... And yes, most the stuff you read is by ppl. who already figured it out.
I am smart enough to figure out the work arounds, but my point is at this price point I shouldn’t have to.

We all get charmed by the glossy brochures

Doing the simplest things on a Profilux 4 can sometimes be an exercise in frustration once the programmable logic gets involved. If you have the Apex stick with it, there really isn't anything with similar abilities that is easier to use.

 

[Tamberav]

I agree Probe calibration shouldn't be a big deal, I do it all the time with my Hanna Salinity and PH. But at least give me the tools to do it correctly.
I know we already had our talk about CoralVue and Hydros and I am not ruling them out. if this was 6 months ago I would have a Hydros now, and I still may. Still have 5 more tanks which Hydros is good at multiple tanks one controller. As far as the ATK goes technically it crapped the bed after the first day but I changed a very simple line code from max run time from 5min to 1min. Because I thought if the pump ran for 5 mins it would overflow the sump. But apparently I forgot the old PC days that with any changes you have to restart. Yes, it is just growing pains, but maybe I feel I did this type of stuff 20-40 years ago. Back then it was new and exciting and you accepted all the flaws or not and created a new programming language. I don't even mind its programming language, but I think it is unnecessary in todays UIUX.
Anyway, this is really just a rant. I see the value, just not what I paid, which was a lot cheaper than pre- release V3.
Anyway this whole process started when during our last heat wave, one of my chillers on my temperate tank blew a fuse and I lost half the tank during the night. I felt if I had some sort of alarm, I could have avoided the calamity.
Thanks bud... when we doin beers?

ya, I agree with you that it doesn’t really meet the price point. I think that is because the reefing hobby is small so it just doesn’t have the innovation of other tech like the new air pods

Using float switches is more reliable than the ATK. Which is sad because the ATK is so costly. Some of the apex addons just need to be pulled off the shelf or re done. I guess if you don’t have much competition, you don’t have to tho.

Oooo! A temperate tank! I have one too I do not have an alarm either but it is thick acrylic so it can go a day without being chilled. I have had the fuses go as well sometimes. I do think a small hydros on it would be a good idea tho. I have always considered hooking up a second chiller set a higher temp too. It has however been up 8 years (knock on wood) and survived which I really thank on the insulating power of acrylic.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I understand the frustration of not being able to figure everything out on day one. For me, it took a couple of months to research and fully program my apex. Most people are used to being able to open a package and press a few buttons to get something functional. The information is out there, but it requires more effort to research than some people's expectation of a $800 product is.

 

[Gtinnel]

there is not a guide that I have found yet that has a list of Rules and Commands.

AFAIK this is the best list of what the programming commands are.

Apex Programming Command Reference

This article is a reference guide for all of the Neptune Apex programming commands. All of this information is publicly available, but is scattered amongst several Neptune documents and posts in the Neptune Community Forums. My goal is to...

www.reef2reef.com

Temp probe Recalibrate by .06 deg.

Is this a typo or are you actually complaining about having to recalibrate the probe to compensate for a 6 hundredths of a degree difference?

 

[doubleshot00]

I mean.. I definitly do not buy everything apex... the ATK has pretty crap reviews on BRS while the Tunze is rocking it! Soooo I put the tunze on my apex

Same

As a rookie apex user i feel your frustration. No way in heck would i pay $1k for this thing. Got mine second hand for steal and love it for that reason. I have the el version and have no idea what the more expensive one does as min measures ph and temp pretty well. Idk the point of the orp and heard the salinity was trash.

Its taken me 2 months to understand “most” of the features and am just happy its working.

 

[alabella1]

I mean.. I definitly do not buy everything apex... the ATK has pretty crap reviews on BRS while the Tunze is rocking it! Soooo I put the tunze on my apex

Same!

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

We all get charmed by the glossy brochures

Doing the simplest things on a Profilux 4 can sometimes be an exercise in frustration once the programmable logic gets involved. If you have the Apex stick with it, there really isn't anything with similar abilities that is easier to use.

You haven't played with a hydros yet then... It's ALMOST stupid proof with the gui setup, but it lacks some of the customization at the programming level that the apex does. I think that aspect will improve with time, apex has 25 years over everyone with this aquarium controller stuff. Also hydros plays MUCH nicer with non in house equipment.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Same

As a rookie apex user i feel your frustration. No way in heck would i pay $1k for this thing. Got mine second hand for steal and love it for that reason. I have the el version and have no idea what the more expensive one does as min measures ph and temp pretty well. Idk the point of the orp and heard the salinity was trash.

Its taken me 2 months to understand “most” of the features and am just happy its working.

I wouldn't pay a 1k price for it now, I cringed when the Apex classics were 399$ 8-9 years ago. I think I paid 200$ for my first (used) classic in 2015.

You got to learn in 2 months what it probably took me a lot more time due to the info on forums @ the time was waaayyyy more fickle. There was a LOT of go read the manual, not folks actually typing out blocks of code for you. I eventually printed out the 200 page pig of a manual and it still sits on my shelf to this day.

Be glad it's gotten easier to own one. Or else I'd be waiting on your pain to buy it second hand when you bowed out

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I understand the frustration of not being able to figure everything out on day one. For me, it took a couple of months to research and fully program my apex. Most people are used to being able to open a package and press a few buttons to get something functional. The information is out there, but it requires more effort to research than some people's expectation of a $800 product is.

This exactly!