Apex... Really, This is what I get for my money?

[TangerineSpeedo]

AFAIK this is the best list of what the programming commands are.

Apex Programming Command Reference

This article is a reference guide for all of the Neptune Apex programming commands. All of this information is publicly available, but is scattered amongst several Neptune documents and posts in the Neptune Community Forums. My goal is to...

www.reef2reef.com

Is this a typo or are you actually complaining about having to recalibrate the probe to compensate for a 6 hundredths of a degree difference?

Thanks for link! I am sure it will be a big help.
.... No... it's not a typo
All my temp probes read the same or within .1, the consistency is just easier. I wish the other probes were as easy to adjust. Just go in and adjust the reading to whatever you need it to be.

 

[doubleshot00]

Yeah..i agree that many people are the source of the problems and I completely understand trying to save time by giving a good write up on common problems. The issue I have with this is that the people who genuinely have problems are automatically discounted. Its a complex platform which inherently will have a high degree of human error, but to automatically categorize the issues as human error without a bit of research shows that they are the dominant player in the market and dont have to be as serious with customer support.

Yeah when i got my apex going i came on here and there forums for help. Never contacted there CS but i bet a lot of people do. I hate dealing with companies CS.

Just had a transformer for my uv go out. Contacted cs and they need a receipt to replace it and even look at it. $100 at brs and got a new one here tomorrow. Screw warranties sometimes. Not worth my time.

 

[doubleshot00]

Skimmer fix is easy, go DC pumps. I hear my water splashing over the return more than anything else anymore. Also working around loud noises for 30 years haven't helped, lol.

Yeah im at wits end with this red sea skimmer. Im most likely going to het a Tunze. I have a tunze in tank skimmer but my water level in my sump isn’t high enough.

 

[Gtinnel]

Thanks for link! I am sure it will be a big help.
.... No... it's not a typo
All my temp probes read the same or within .1, the consistency is just easier. I wish the other probes were as easy to adjust. Just go in and adjust the reading to whatever you need it to be.

There is another article by @SuncrestReef about the hardware as well. He was a huge asset to the Neptune community but has recently taken a step back from the hobby (or at least from online forums).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Whie apex has been trouble free for me, it is no doubt Very high priced for the quality not to mention failing probes. I was told at MACNA that they recommend changing PH and even Salinity probes annually- SERIOUSLY ??
So spend $800 then another $180 annually for probes because they for over a decade rarely work or are accurate ??

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

There is another article by @SuncrestReef about the hardware as well. He was a huge asset to the Neptune community but has recently taken a step back from the hobby (or at least from online forums).

This. He really put the time in, with no prejudices for the apex community.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

Whie apex has been trouble free for me, it is no doubt Very high priced for the quality not to mention failing probes. I was told at MACNA that they recommend changing PH and even Salinity probes annually- SERIOUSLY ??
So spend $800 then another $180 annually for probes because they for over a decade rarely work or are accurate ??

Your kidding right. They had the nerve to announce that nonsense. The PH probe I can care less as I use pinpoint dj probes instead of Neptune's rebranded overpriced stuff.

The proprietary salinity probe tho, they are bananas. I'd just never use it then (which I think is what they want with the A3).

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I might need to borrow your manual... LOL I am much more of a tactile person.
The Hydros UIUX has it going on! Like I said if this was 6 months ago I would be working with that and still might for the other tanks.

So I'm also quizzing you, why didn't you go hydros?

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Maybe I’ve missed something but happened with CoralVue recently that has made you not willing to buy into the Hydros ecosystem?

Yes, I covered it in another thread, but I have recently lost some confidence in CoralVue itself as being a lasting company. For a number of reasons

 

[mattdg]

It's getting to the point where we will no longer need separate reef controllers. Nearly every major piece of hardware on my reef system is controllable via wifi / app, no central controller needed and no single point of failure. This brings me to the reason I like the idea of Hydros. If I simply wish to monitor a few parameters remotely, or control a couple specific pieces of hardware, I no longer need to invest in a single expensive all inclusive system. I can upgrade according to my needs and budget.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Apex fan boy here (yes I said 'apex' not Neptune Systems)

I'll be first to admit that set up requires some brain power to understand the world in which the apex exists.

Probes need to be calibrated, you can't expect them to work out of the box. They have to be matched to the specific probe. Someone already said these are hobby grade probes. There's a lot of +/- variation from probe to probe that the apex software has to account for, hence calibrating.

When did apex get a salinity probe? Semantics I know, but it's a conductivity probe, understanding the difference allows you to put into perspective all the issues people have with these probes. It's just one of my pet peeves is all... hehe

Again, you said UI is good, and I don't disagree, the fusion wizard takes care of the tasks that most hobbyists require. As for your pmup issue, I'd say there's a line of code in there that prevents it from running xx minutes after it shut off, to give the motor time to cool off... I'm pretty certain the pmup doesn't require such feature so that line can be removed... Keeping in mind that line of of code also prevents the pump from turning on and off every time your level sensor changes state (open or closed). How do find the line of code? Click on the gear of the pmup outlet, there's a drop down menu and select advance... there you can see the lines of code. Yes it's a bit overwhelming when first looking at it, but trust me if you copy and paste each line into a search engine, you'll be bombarded with great information.

In my mind Apex is second to none (yes apex not Neptune Systems). And the boutique rivals that are being compared are six of one, half dozen of the other. It all comes down to preference and interface.

I've been using apex before there was an apex, and growing up submerged in their logic, and all the changes within the software, it is easy to follow, however I completely understand the frustration from someone looking at it for the first time.

The great thing about apex (and others) is that there's a community of folks that can easily provide their expertise on the subject, and if we're being honest, most of the information has already been written in thousands of threads, all it takes is the right word combination in the search engine.

 

[Gtinnel]

Yes, I covered it in another thread, but I have recently lost some confidence in CoralVue itself as being a lasting company. For a number of reasons

I have never had any dealing with CoralVue, but I know several people who actively avoid having deal with them.
When I bought my Apex I wouldn’t consider the GHL because of lack of community support, and the Hydros was too new for my liking. So when I got mine there really wasn’t much of a choice to make.

 

[Treefer32]

Unfortunately I haven't found a system yet, that works as well as an android phone (yes, that was intentional.... Androids are as easy as iphone, just different. )

That said, I have the Apex Classic, that's going on 8 years old. I replaced the lab grade PH probe once in the last 8 years. Only because the original was dry for a year. It probably needs replacing. I don't really want to spend $100 on a probe and the readings are consistent. If it's off it's off, it's at least consistently telling me information. Salinity probes are crap on all systems from what I've read. Hobby grade, is not lab grade... It's does it work with some accuracy over time? Maybe?

I have the Hydros Wave Engine for my 4 gyres and initially it was easy to setup all the programs and control. After several updates, firmware updates, etc. I am no longer able to change my original programming of the gyres. I just wanted to decrease the speed at which they run during the day (right after cleaning them it was too high... lol). I am no longer able to configure them and need to reach out to support. Which I'm too lazy to do.

I can still use the feed mode, which is great, but if I ever need to reprogram them, I may have to factory reset everything and hope I can reprogram them then or I just turned the wave engine into a calm lake engine.

I'm not for or against Apex. It has worked for me but pretty much all I have it doing is turning outlets on and off. And I realized the other day I have it controlling one dosing pump, and for the most part, everything is just set to on.... The only thing it has helped me with is notifying me of power outages or disconnects from the network. Which has been incredibly useful. At the same time my $40 Wyze cams can pretty much do that for me too. So, could one get by with a few timers and power strips for $100. Probably. Can you see PH and temp anytime of day from anywhere with those? No.

I do wish alk, calcium, and mg monitoring were a lot easier and didn't require reagents. Monitoring those hourly and daily would be a huge bonus with a couple probes would then make whomever comes out with that way ahead of the game. That said, the technology isn't there yet.. While we're dreaming, I'd love an aquarium monitoring system that measured uptake - consumption of alk, calcium, and mg, hourly, to see trends in coral growth and help determine what environments are ideal for our critters. Monitoring of Nitrates and phosphates hourly would be great too.

An Aquarium analytics engine would be amazing. We have buoys in the ocean that monitor things like this, but, nothing for the hobby. I'd love to get a message on my phone that says, hey, you're aquarium water is running low on potassium, recommended dosage of your current potassium solution is 10 ml, would you like me to dose 10 ml of potassium solution?

"Why, yes, I would, please do.... "
Then, auto wait for an hour, and report back "Potassium levels have returned to normal, no further intervention needed."

Oh, yeah, that reminds me, trace element monitoring would be great as well (just for the most common ones). With out data, I feel the aquarium automation systems are severely lacking. But, it truly comes down to requirements. I need information that no aquarium system provides. So, would I by an Apex or Hydros system again? I'm honestly not sure. I may just monitor with wyze cams when I'm gone and call it good.

I'm a visionary though. I feel we should be able to do a lot more with the technology we have, but I may be thinking ahead of my lifetime as well... Some of what I'm suggesting may not be profitable...

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

It's getting to the point where we will no longer need separate reef controllers. Nearly every major piece of hardware on my reef system is controllable via wifi / app, no central controller needed and no single point of failure. This brings me to the reason I like the idea of Hydros. If I simply wish to monitor a few parameters remotely, or control a couple specific pieces of hardware, I no longer need to invest in a single expensive all inclusive system. I can upgrade according to my needs and budget.

The problem i see with this is that you have x number of independent apps that cannot interact with each other. Alk too low? start dosing. Temp too high..turn off your lights or turn on your fan. It is the big reason I have the apex set up

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

The problem i see with this is that you have x number of independent apps that cannot interact with each other. Alk too low? start dosing. Temp too high..turn off your lights or turn on your fan. It is the big reason I have the apex set up

This. I had a tank setup with kasa smart power strips and it can work, but I screwed up with a 'self made feed mode', return pump didn't come back on and nuked my tank. Thus I have a apex on everything now.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Thanks for link! I am sure it will be a big help.
.... No... it's not a typo
All my temp probes read the same or within .1, the consistency is just easier. I wish the other probes were as easy to adjust. Just go in and adjust the reading to whatever you need it to be.

Simply showing 0.1 degree resolution is easy, however having that level of accuracy is not.

That 0.1 degree displayed resolution is worthless if the underlying accuracy is +- 2 degrees.

 

[ssdawood]

LOL.. well yes, the temp probe was the easiest to solve. And yes, if this was 10 years ago... but its not.
Yes, I am being nitpicky because I am a consumer that knows what is possible. I don't know if the salinity probe is garbage, but after my tweaks, no thanks to Neptune. it is accurate within +/- .2 of my hanna and so far it is consistent. But my point is, at that price point or even with today's technology it shouldn’t have to be this way.

Now I am all ears. Since you mention as a consumer you know whats possible.
What do you think is comparable or yet better than Apex in market for around 1000 dollars ( Even 1000 is a lot, Apex EL is 500 ) that's more accurate, easier interface and better probes?

Coz I would like to switch. Who doesn't want all the above mentioned items.
What can I buy with better temp probe more accurate that will email me when it's out of range and I can turn heater off.
Same for pH, monitor it, more accurate and email me.
Salinity also accurate, less fluctuation and email me.
Leak detectors which will inform me and I can turn return off and come home.
Press one button (Feed A) and turn off or lower all powerheads for feeding
Water changes etc I could go on.

What is better. Let's make a system that's better. We can piece it if you like. Go ahead tell me. Tell me the cost?

Again, not trying to prove you wrong. I just think your expecting a lot from 1000 dollar invested.

Or maybe I am uninformed, it's a win win

 

[TheyGaveItToMe]

The salinity is actually pretty accurate, once you figure out the temperature compensation factor. People who complain either don't have it on or have the wrong factor. The Apex is worth every penny if you are tech savvy, if not you are not going to get enough function out of it to justify the cost. But, as some one who works in automation, I can tell you it is a tremendous value priced product. Look up the price of an Allen-Bradley 1732AWA, and then tell me you feel like you over paid.

 

[Roli's Reef Ranch]

Oh, where do I start... I originally was going to go with Hydros, but with the winds of corporate change in the air, I decided to go with Apex. I initially bought the ATO/ATK, then got a good deal on the V2 complete system because I wanted to salinity probe.
Set everything up/ got every plugged in. My first concern was getting the ATK running so I could stop doing it manually. Well for what ever reason, it worked the first day, then stopped. The sensor would say open but the PMUP would not turn on. I could, through the interface turn on the PMUP and manually fill it. I was checking the connections/ pulled the all out and put them back in. Then it started working. OK... great, I think. how long is this going to last? That let me move on to the bigger things.
This is what I needed to do to make my system work.
Temp probe Recalibrate by .06 deg.
PH probe Not use 4.0 and 10.0 calibration packets provided. Those were off. I use Atlas Scientific calibration fluids and those seem pretty accurate for my needs. Once I calibrated with that good to go.
Salinity The provided packet read low but that really didn’t matter because the probe in my sump read 49 ppt. So I had to purchase a VCA module and a small pump. Also come to find out the TC is turned off in the factory settings. Look, if you sell a system WITH a temperature probe, do not send it out the door with the TC turned off. Now with the adjustments and additions, it is stabile and on the mark. Oh I had to use the Hanna 35ppt to calibrate it.
ORP Well working on that.

Look, even though the system has a decent UI/UX, it is not intuitive. It is not an Iphone. The programing is basic, It reminds me of putting in swear words on computers in Sears in the 80's and hit "LOOP" then "RUN" but there is not a guide that I have found yet that has a list of Rules and Commands. I am aware that Apex has a forum... but.

I know, once I get this down, it will be better than my grandma's banana bread. But for the price point. Why should your system not come with all the things to make it work properly out of the box? Why do I have to use other manufacturers products to get yours to work proper? Why do I have to spend $40 bucks for a probe holder that doesn’t come with your product? Did you want your expensive probes rolling around in the bottom of a sump?
The system should be more plug and play. This is not a new product, this should have been worked out by now. In fact the V3 nothing has really changed except they technically eliminated a FMM module and a salinity probe.
Is it worth the money? Maybe, the jury is still out. But the box should be clearly marked. Box contains "Frustration" and has Parts Missing!

I have a hydros and would be happy to swap you

 

[cooltowncorals]

I really like the hydros

I run the smart plugs for lots of things

have run a light with 0-10 in the past

With probe and temp

lots of updates for it in the last year improving abilities and scheduling