Aquatic Life Hybrid with Radion XR15W G4 PRO

[Kevin Duprey]

@scuzy

Digging up an 'oldish' thread in hopes up see this. I currently have a 6' tank and am pretty sold on the LED/T5 combo, especially the Aquatic Life unit. That being said - I am being told by Ecotech CS that they would recommend for my tank the XR15Pro x 3. No XR30s, no T5.

Clearly I disagree with them, but I thought I would ask someone who has all three; do you still have this setup? Why did you pick both XR30s and XR15s? Assuming the choice to go with 2x36" units is because the 61" unit is too limiting?

Appreciate any feedback you could provide.

I'm running a 48" Aquatic Life Unit with 3 XR15Gen4Pros with diffusers over a 5' tank (59" to be precise). The very bottom sides are a bit darker than the rest of the tank (haven't measured PAR there yet), but otherwise I get very uniform coverage. Fixture is 10" above the water. I'd think you could get away with the 61" unit and either 4 XR15s or 2 XR30s (probably get more uniform coverage with 4 XR15s.). Unless you plan to run SPS all the way out to the very sides of the tank, you should be fine with this. The sides will give you a place to put any lower light corals. I'm running 2x blue plus, 1x coral plus and 1x actinic 8 hours/ day, with the Radions coming on at 7 am and not going off until 8:30 pm with long ramps on both the morning and evening. The peak of the Radions matches the T5s. The Radions run mostly an AB+ for that 8 hours, with a 1.5 hour peak at mid day of 12k light. I'm getting great growth and color from this setup.

 

[RockyProndoa]

I'm running a 48" Aquatic Life Unit with 3 XR15Gen4Pros with diffusers over a 5' tank (59" to be precise). The very bottom sides are a bit darker than the rest of the tank (haven't measured PAR there yet), but otherwise I get very uniform coverage. Fixture is 10" above the water. I'd think you could get away with the 61" unit and either 4 XR15s or 2 XR30s (probably get more uniform coverage with 4 XR15s.). Unless you plan to run SPS all the way out to the very sides of the tank, you should be fine with this. The sides will give you a place to put any lower light corals. I'm running 2x blue plus, 1x coral plus and 1x actinic 8 hours/ day, with the Radions coming on at 7 am and not going off until 8:30 pm with long ramps on both the morning and evening. The peak of the Radions matches the T5s. The Radions run mostly an AB+ for that 8 hours, with a 1.5 hour peak at mid day of 12k light. I'm getting great growth and color from this setup.

Wow... Thank you for the candid and detailed response, that really is very helpful. The biggest decision now at this point sounds like deciding between the 61" unit or two 36" units (room for an additional two lights; 4 on the 61" unit vs 6 on the 36" units).

I'm wondering if 2 XR15s and 2 XR30s would be overkill as a starting point? I plan to continue a mixed reef indefinitely.

 

[Kevin Duprey]

Wow... Thank you for the candid and detailed response, that really is very helpful. The biggest decision now at this point sounds like deciding between the 61" unit or two 36" units (room for an additional two lights; 4 on the 61" unit vs 6 on the 36" units).

I'm wondering if 2 XR15s and 2 XR30s would be overkill as a starting point? I plan to continue a mixed reef indefinitely.

If you're sticking with a mixed reef then IMHO, 2 XR15s AND 2 XR30s is way overkill. With my 3 XR15s plus the AL T5s, I'm getting nearly 400 PAR at the top of my rock structures (still 6" below the surface), and around 200+ PAR on the bottom middle of the tank (20" deep) during the peak lighting period. I still have headroom for more with the XR15s. At their peak, they're running at 75% intensity on the AB+. If I ran the XR15s at 100%, I'd likely get around 500 PAR at the top, and my LPS and softies near the bottom would probably wither (clam might love it though...). Don't forget I'm also running the Radions with diffusers which is costing about 20%. Honestly, I think you'd be fine with the 61" fixture and 4 XR15s. I would recommend the diffusers as it really helps with the disco-ball effect. Much more pleasant shimmer. Good luck and happy reefing.

 

[RockyProndoa]

If you're sticking with a mixed reef then IMHO, 2 XR15s AND 2 XR30s is way overkill. With my 3 XR15s plus the AL T5s, I'm getting nearly 400 PAR at the top of my rock structures (still 6" below the surface), and around 200+ PAR on the bottom middle of the tank (20" deep) during the peak lighting period. I still have headroom for more with the XR15s. At their peak, they're running at 75% intensity on the AB+. If I ran the XR15s at 100%, I'd likely get around 500 PAR at the top, and my LPS and softies near the bottom would probably wither (clam might love it though...). Don't forget I'm also running the Radions with diffusers which is costing about 20%. Honestly, I think you'd be fine with the 61" fixture and 4 XR15s. I would recommend the diffusers as it really helps with the disco-ball effect. Much more pleasant shimmer. Good luck and happy reefing.

I can appreciate you trying to save me money, lol, but I'm also considering the fact that you are over a 5' tank at 75% while I am over a 6' tank. I also do not keep any softies, with a mix of LPS/SPS only (well, I guess that's a partial lie as I do have a few mushrooms).

I guess I could always still upgrade in the future. You've given me a fair amount to consider - thanks!

And if anyone else with an a T5 LED combo cares to weigh in, I would appreciate it.

 

[Huff747]

@scuzy

Digging up an 'oldish' thread in hopes up see this. I currently have a 6' tank and am pretty sold on the LED/T5 combo, especially the Aquatic Life unit. That being said - I am being told by Ecotech CS that they would recommend for my tank the XR15Pro x 3. No XR30s, no T5.

Clearly I disagree with them, but I thought I would ask someone who has all three; do you still have this setup? Why did you pick both XR30s and XR15s? Assuming the choice to go with 2x36" units is because the 61" unit is too limiting?

Appreciate any feedback you could provide.

I have a 6ft 125 gallon tank and I started out with three XR15Pros and eventually I rented a par meter and found that almost nowhere in the tank was nearly as high of par as I thought. I was running mine at 55% using an AB+ template from Apex profiles and even when I cranked them up to 100% just to test the par was lower than I would like. So I added the T5 hybrid and re-tested and ended up running the XR15s at 75% and am much happier with the par values I'm getting. My rocks aren't overly tall so your mileage may vary but I'm much happier with the coverage/par values/growth since I added the T5s (currently 2xblue+ and 2xcoral+)

 

[Rakie]

I am running an XR30 G4 Pro at AB+ 100% intensity, with the 24" AL hybrid fixture. I have replaced the ballast in the hybrid fixture and it puts out significantly more light. I unfortunately don't have a par meter to test the difference. But it was visually obvious upon changing 1 ballast vs the other. Alk uptake also spiked.

 

[reefwreak]

I am running an XR30 G4 Pro at AB+ 100% intensity, with the 24" AL hybrid fixture. I have replaced the ballast in the hybrid fixture and it puts out significantly more light. I unfortunately don't have a par meter to test the difference. But it was visually obvious upon changing 1 ballast vs the other. Alk uptake also spiked.

Thaaats why you brought it up. Makes more sense now (we discussed this offline).

Is anyone using the standard Ecotech mounting with the hybrid fixtures? I really don't want to hang lights, and I really don't want to build hanging hardware behind the tank. I'd like to use the Ecotech RMS mounts if they could hold the weight. If not, I probably would just stick with my 2 fixtures and no T5s. I am really impressed with this as a hybrid solution, since I've been looking for something like this since I start up my new tank. I do still miss MH though....

 

[Rakie]

Thaaats why you brought it up. Makes more sense now (we discussed this offline).

Is anyone using the standard Ecotech mounting with the hybrid fixtures? I really don't want to hang lights, and I really don't want to build hanging hardware behind the tank. I'd like to use the Ecotech RMS mounts if they could hold the weight. If not, I probably would just stick with my 2 fixtures and no T5s. I am really impressed with this as a hybrid solution, since I've been looking for something like this since I start up my new tank. I do still miss MH though....

The hybrid fixture lets you mount the led fixture inside of it by design. So you don't need two mounting setups, it just slips right in. Pic included.

And dear lord, I would encourage EVERYONE to upgrade the ballast in the fixture. It is an absolute beast now compared to how it was.

 

[reefwreak]

I get that, and appreciate the pic, but can I use the Ecotech RMS mounts with that system, and have the Radions and T5s all hanging from existing RMS mounts, or do you have to get rid of the RMS mounts and mount in a different fashion (i.e. add in hanging supports, ceiling hanging, etc)?

 

[Huff747]

I don't know how you'd mount them and them get them to stay. If you tried using the slider mounts and putting a screw through the slider, through the aquatic life bracket, and into the light the only thing keeping the t5 fixture from falling into your tank would be the small screws you can see in @Rakie picture above at the very ends. And those things are tiny and I highly doubt they are intended to support any kind of weight. I think they are just there to keep the lights from easily being slid around inside the fixture once you get them where you want them.

 

[Rakie]

Oh gotcha -- no, you cannot. Light trees are not expensive though

 

[Huff747]

I have replaced the ballast in the hybrid fixture and it puts out significantly more light. I unfortunately don't have a par meter to test the difference. But it was visually obvious upon changing 1 ballast vs the other. Alk uptake also spiked.

Not having messed with T5s before, just using the stock fixture, do you have any links or info about upgrading the ballasts? Which one did you upgrade to?

 

[Rakie]

Also you can get long shelving brackets mounted into the wall too

 

[Rakie]

Not having messed with T5s before, just using the stock fixture, do you have any links or info about upgrading the ballasts? Which one did you upgrade to?

I used this ballast, the Phillips one. My friend suggested it because it's the top rated ballast you can get.

What made me really think it was worth it was three things.

- 1st, the AL fixture didn't seem add much. Although it had an HEP ballast it was not the same output as an ATI fixture.

- 2nd, I had friends who had both ATI fixtures next to the AL fixture and they agreed even with 4 bulbs to 2 bulbs the 2 bulb ATI was visually brighter to the eyes.

- 3rd, par testing showed the AL fixture had only 15% more PAR over a 2 bulb LET retrofit.

All these things combined made me give it a go. After switching 1 ballast and turning the AL on the side with the Phillips ballast was visibly significantly brighter. Of course no PAR meter

I would advise everyone switch out to stronger ballasts. It was an absolute game changer. Corals are brighter, growth has significantly picked up, and colors improved.

If they don't put much better ballasts in the next iteration of the fixture a new generation is all for naught.

 

[Wildreefs]

Which Phillip ballast? Hard to change?

 

[Rakie]

The phillips advanced ballast, very easy to change but I asked my friend to help because I was chicken -- It was way easy though I could have done it, and that says a lot lol.

Here's one of them on Amazon -- not expensive: https://www.amazon.com/Advance-Electronic-Fluorescent-120-277V-Operating/dp/B00ONK8GPE


My friend suggested them as they are rated the best ballast out there right now, and the increase in light/growth after switching my ballast was immediately evident.

 

[Wildreefs]

Ok thanks. One of these will light two bulbs? For these 4 bulb aquatic life fixtures, how many of these ballasts would I need ?

 

[Style68]

Hi Guys,

I would like to understand why someone would switch from a full T5 setup to a T5 Hybrid (w/Radion G4 Pros) or a Radion G4 Pro with diffuser setup.

It seems that if electrical cost and heat are not an issue then a full T5 setup is the better option do to their spread and PAR values and no shimmering.

The benefits of having a T5 Hybrid seems to be because the LEDs produce less heat, lower electrical costs and has the ability to control color output levels.

With available T5 dimmable options, isn't it safe to say that the LEDs only benefit is the lower heat dissipation and electrical costs?

And let's say if you had an all LED only Radion setup with the diffusers attached and this Radion LED setup were to match the same PAR level of a full T5 setup. Wouldn't the spread of the diffusers be enough to cause no shadows and help remove the shimmering? If so, wouldn't this mean someone would not need to even add T5 bulbs?

Please help me understand since a lot of my decision making has been from reading articles and forums and I actually spent the money on two systems and I am currently using an all Radion LED setup with diffusers. With this setup I hardly see if any shimmering or shadowing in my tank and my PAR is at a level I am happy with.

Thanks for any explanation.

 

[Huff747]

I can only speak for myself but I started with 3 XR15s (no diffusers) on a 6ft tank and assumed since they show that they can cover 24x24 that I was good. I eventually rented a par meter and found out I wasn't getting anywhere near the par that I thought I was, even when I cranked the intensity up. I had some decent numbers directly under the fixtures but the rest of the tank was lacking.

So adding the hybrid seemed like a good option for me personally to get more coverage and more par at a reasonable additional cost. I have no doubt you can cover a tank with adequate par with only LEDs but I think I added the hybrid fixture for about $75 less than a single additional XR15. Also since my LEDs were in one line adding T5s in front and in back of them seemed to help a lot with reducing shadows.

 

[Kevin Duprey]

Hi Guys,

I would like to understand why someone would switch from a full T5 setup to a T5 Hybrid (w/Radion G4 Pros) or a Radion G4 Pro with diffuser setup.

It seems that if electrical cost and heat are not an issue then a full T5 setup is the better option do to their spread and PAR values and no shimmering.

The benefits of having a T5 Hybrid seems to be because the LEDs produce less heat, lower electrical costs and has the ability to control color output levels.

With available T5 dimmable options, isn't it safe to say that the LEDs only benefit is the lower heat dissipation and electrical costs?

And let's say if you had an all LED only Radion setup with the diffusers attached and this Radion LED setup were to match the same PAR level of a full T5 setup. Wouldn't the spread of the diffusers be enough to cause no shadows and help remove the shimmering? If so, wouldn't this mean someone would not need to even add T5 bulbs?

Please help me understand since a lot of my decision making has been from reading articles and forums and I actually spent the money on two systems and I am currently using an all Radion LED setup with diffusers. With this setup I hardly see if any shimmering or shadowing in my tank and my PAR is at a level I am happy with.

Thanks for any explanation.

I'll take a shot at an explanation. For me, the T5 fills in the point source like quality of the radions, even with the diffuser. The diffuser does more to aid color blending than it does to truly diffuse the light source. I had radions only (with diffusers) for a while, and the growth in my tank was definitely better when I added the diffuse T5 lights. Some of this was due to setup at the time, and an inability to raise the radions higher above the tank to get more spread. Why I choose this over an all T5 setup is that I like to have both a full spectrum (~12k) light during part of the day, and a much bluer look most of the rest of the lighting period. I've found over time that most SPS need a bit of full-spectrum light to truly develop all their color potential, but I don't want to look at that all the time. The only way to do this with T5 is to turn some bulbs on / off at certain times of the day, but that changes PAR along with color spectrum. LED (with sufficient power so you're not maxed out on any channel) change spectrum without significantly changing PAR. That's my 2 cents.

Having said all this, I'll admit I'm about to change from the hybrid solution I have now to a full LED setup with the new Reefi LED Duo Extreme lights. These have a lot of power, a naturally more diffuse spread, and a really interesting spectrum, so I'm confident I can hang them higher above my tank and not miss the diffuse T5 light. Time will tell.