Wow reading Comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it?! The fact that a fish survives ich and no longer shows visible signs of the disease is not proof of cure or eradication, just that the pathogen is no longer at a level that can negatively effect the animal. Even Ryan and Randy at BRS touched on this in one of their FAQ videos about quarantine best practices. Maybe you will believe them.
This is absolutely true how bought you do an experiment since you believe you have eradicated all disease in your tank since it’s been symptom free for years? Stress your fish out with high water temps not enough to kill them just stress them out for a couple of days where they are kind of lethargic and laying on the bottom gasping from time to time and let me know if Ich doesn’t magically show back up in your system.
These fish from biota are babies and not fully developed. It is not wise to subject them to a harmful chemical like copper. Could have been part of why they stopped eating.
Dude nobody believes ich cannot be erraticated but you, just stop.
Yeah you got me on this. I ment they couldn’t breed fish exposed to ich because the tiny fry would all die. But I didn’t clarify that. And did give an absolute on that. But the arguments premise was about wether ich can be erraticated.
You're missing the point. the point was that a let's pretend 200 gallon tank with 1 baby tang compared to a tank with 6 large tangs. One of those tanks will have Ich multiply at an extremely high exponential rate if it were to become infected.
Then put your fish were your mouth is! And literally every respectable aquarist knows that ich can not be eradicated it can just be controlled. Tell me this since you’re clearly a biologist and a medical professional what disease in the last two thousand years has man been able to completely eradicate from the human species? I ask you this because of the billions of dollars in research peoples entire lives devoted to eradicating one disease process over entire lifetimes and yet we have only been attempting to medicate fish and animals for possibly the last 100 years with no where near the funds or manpower dedicated to it and you believe we can 100% eradicate one of their diseases and haven’t been able to do it to a single disease that effects the human race?!
Well - it's kind of interesting - Ich becomes much less infectious at higher temps. But - perhaps you meant a lower temp? Or some other stress?
Correct - I was saying that there is SOME immunity - there are lots of theories about why person ABC gets 'worms' - but person DEF does not. Part of it is thought to be immunity (most of it 'innate' - rather than acquired/specific.
Oh thank god somebody said ich can be eradicated. I heard the opposing argument so many times that I think I was beginning to believe it
So as a biologist myself if you go 11-12 generations without the introduction of new genetic material aka population diversity ich will be the least of your problems sure in a perfect lab situation with 100% sterile environments you can eliminate it that being said your biota and normal aquaculture facilities aren’t going to that length the costs would be enormous and nobody would be able to afford their livestock also for all intensive purposes it is not obtainable to completely eradicate ich, velvet, or brook so yes you are right in a 100% controlled lab experiments with the strain diluted by several generations of lab grade specimens it’s feasible you only further my point that you have to remove the parent fish to eliminate the disease.
You did read about how very costly and unobtainable that goal really is right. Also its a 100% sterile environment maintained over generations without the introduction of new stock so think about what generations of inbreeding did to the royal familiesOh thank god somebody said ich can be eradicated. I heard the opposing argument so many times that I think I was beginning to believe it
I just want him to stress the fish once temp is brought back down to a normal level ich will appear due to the fishes weakened immune state i don’t want the fish to die just use the stressing event to induce the response that we all know it will have.
Here are my fish where my mouth is. Not positive what you meant by that, but I’ll use it as an excuse to bring some color to this nasty little argument we have found ourselves in. I would like to apologize if I said anything rude to anybody.
It’s a very nice tank your Moorish Idol is beautiful be careful the tang police are going to get you. Like I said before we just need to agree to disagree. What you consider cured and what others consider cured are two different things with my understanding of your thinking that I have gathered from this debate is you feel as though you haven’t had any outbreaks or symptoms that it’s clearly not viable in your system however I and many others are of the opinion that just because your fish look healthy and they don’t have any signs or symptoms doesn’t mean it’s not there. The ultimate way to put this at rest would to be a DNA analysis taken from multiple areas in the tank and sump but that’s ridiculously expensive so like I have said and will continue to say nothing is 100% except death and taxes.
Not every human disease is a virus or bacteria. However it’s a living organism not unlike viruses and bacteria. If you want to compare it as a parasite then find me a parasite that affects humans that we have eradicated in the history of humanity?
You are saying something I was not. I said some studies have suggested - that in an aquarium situation - assuming no further additions, that a given strain of CI can/may die out within 11-12 generations. I did not say that it always would, nor that it would in a given tank - I said this is what research suggests. There is also research to suggest that over time - assuming no significant active infections that Ich can have far less infectivity.
