Are Diver's Den fish really any healthier than other fish

[shred5]

I have been to Divers Den pretty many times...
They do quarantine everything there including clams and corals.
Some people do not think they do it well enough and people have gotten diseased fish. Two weeks is not long enough.
There defiantly a difference between DD and LiveAquaria, you even see it in the way they ship stuff. Kevin does a much better job up there.
That said everything in my opinion you should still quarantine.
I doubt anything is quarantined from the other facilities. I know when I was there though everything form LA/DD Wisconsin is quarantined.

I also have not been there since Petco bought them and thing can change.

The other two facilities I hear are now just drop shipping some stuff from Quality marine. I know my last order was not.

 

[Pbh-reef]

I’ve had fish from dd come with internal parasites and basically refuse to eat and die. I would qt all fish from them if you qt, if you don’t qt getting dd fish is one way to manage risk

 

[rsepiphyte1]

I have been purchasing salt water and fresh water fish for many years from them. I have always gotten healthy fish that were well packaged and shipped. I give them the "thumbs up"!

 

[saltyhog]

Divers Den does not quarantine their fish and clearly states that they recommend the buyer QT the fish. What they do is observe and treat if they see a disease. In essence, they observe the fish for a couple of weeks which does weed out a lot of infections. That length of time is not enough to ensure disease free fish....especially fish with thicker slime coats like wrasses. They can and do start showing symptoms after 4 weeks or longer. QT or not is up to you but don't rely on a two week observation.....it's better than nothing but not adequate IMO.

I have had a couple of DD fish with Ich over the last 8 years but many more that were wonderfully healthy.

 

[Terri Caton]

100% DD is better than Live Aquaria. I've had luck with a couple of fish from LA but the ones from Diver's Den are always super healthy.

This is my last fish from LA. Yellow Tang. Came to me SUPER skinny! Died on the 3rd day. The pic is it immediately after it died.

 

[mattzang]

I have a couple DD fish and one ORA fish and they're good quality. It's kind of like if you saw a fish at your LFS and let it hang there for a couple of weeks and saw it eat. You know it'll eat and it's hopefully not about to keel over. But there are far too many with stories of DD fish coming in diseased. And not to mention, DD doesn't even guarantee their expert fish for 14 days anymore? Super weak.

Also fwiw I was curious about ORA fish ever being afflicted with anything so I made a thread a couple of weeks ago and some people reported their fish coming in with disease too so, just have to quarantine everything.

 

[Omgitsjoe]

I've purchased from DD, ORA and just the "regular" Live Aquaria. I can tell you there is a big difference in the DD, and ORA from the "regular" LA. BUT!!!! I QT EVERYTHING. As expensive as this hobby is, why take the risk? Protect your investment

 

[ca1ore]

Divers Den does not quarantine their fish and clearly states that they recommend the buyer QT the fish. What they do is observe and treat if they see a disease. In essence, they observe the fish for a couple of weeks which does weed out a lot of infections. That length of time is not enough to ensure disease free fish....especially fish with thicker slime coats like wrasses. They can and do start showing symptoms after 4 weeks or longer. QT or not is up to you but don't rely on a two week observation.....it's better than nothing but not adequate IMO.

I have had a couple of DD fish with Ich over the last 8 years but many more that were wonderfully healthy.

My experience also. Fish will come to you eating and adjusted to full salinity.

 

[ca1ore]

Have it on pretty good authority that DD fish are basically fish that have limited availability and/ or are over a certain price point. Therefore are given better care because they tend to be isolated into less crowded tanks. Obviously, high priced fish are going to get better care than a tank full of damsels. Otherwise protocols are the same.

Of course DD fish are going to be those that are less common thus commanding a higher price. Doubt anyone is going to pay a premium for yellow tail damsels. Not sure what you mean by protocols being the same? If you meant DD versus regular Live Aquaria then your authority is misinformed . The LA website is just an order taking entity; fish are shipped and packed from a third party wholesaler (Quality Marine); LA never handles them. Versus DD where fish are housed and acclimated in the LA Wisconsin faculty.

 

[ca1ore]

FWIW I have kept a log of all the fish I have purchased over the last decade, including sources and survival (to one year in my system). DD has been by far the best at 95% (failures were two quoyi, a trio of pictiilis, and a black leopard wrasse - all hard to keep). Other online sources, including LA, around 70%. LFS slightly better at 80% (though a smaller samples size). Those exclude DOA. I do observational QT on all fish.

 

[drstardust]

DD doesn't even guarantee their expert fish for 14 days anymore? Super weak.

Really? Wow, I did not know that. Is that something they say on their website?

To add my 2 cents to the conversation, I QT DD fish just like any other fish. To the best of my recollection, I have had every DD fish survive QT (which I cannot say for other sources I've used, "regular" LA included). This is likely owing to the overall good health of the fish when it comes to me to begin with.

 

[Codiak]

I never QT, That way I can get new fish when the old ones die in six months.

 

[ca1ore]

Used to be that the LA/DD guarantee was better than the other notable online vendors ..... now it’s the same.

 

[mattzang]

Really? Wow, I did not know that. Is that something they say on their website?

To add my 2 cents to the conversation, I QT DD fish just like any other fish. To the best of my recollection, I have had every DD fish survive QT (which I cannot say for other sources I've used, "regular" LA included). This is likely owing to the overall good health of the fish when it comes to me to begin with.

Yep, anything maked EXPERT ONLY now has no guarantee beyond arrive alive

https://www.liveaquaria.com/divers-den/product/482375/multibar-angelfish-bonded-pair-expert-only

Overview
Indonesian Multibar Angelfish bonded pair.

Please note: We guarantee that ALL aquaria species we offer will arrive alive and in good condition. However, because of the increased level of care required for this particular species, it has been designated as "Expert Only." This species is recommended only for the expert aquarist, zoo, or research institution. "Expert Only" aquatic life is exempt from our extended guarantee after their arrival.
Size: 2-1/8" - 2-5/8"

 

[Old Fritz]

Yep, anything maked EXPERT ONLY now has no guarantee beyond arrive alive

https://www.liveaquaria.com/divers-den/product/482375/multibar-angelfish-bonded-pair-expert-only

I mean to be fair to la/dd they were probably losing a lot of money to people who thought they were experts

 

[lakai]

It is my understanding that all the fish they sell at liveaquaria come from the same wholesalers, the only difference is DD fish get shipped to Rhinelander where run a low level of copper and they condition the fish to eat before they go on sale.

 

[AcanthurusRex]

All the DD fish I've purchased have been successful. I QT'd them the same as any source; per HotRocks/Hummblefish protocols.
Pretty sure ORA fish not from DD are drop shipped from ORA. ORA fish from DD should be considered the same as any wild-caught fish since they have been a common system.
The write up on DD has their QT protocol. It does not mention housing the fish at sub-therapeutic copper levels.
If you don't QT then good luck to you; my tank has been fallow since April. Anything that goes into it dies in a week.

 

[mattzang]

I mean to be fair to la/dd they were probably losing a lot of money to people who thought they were experts

maybe, but would you buy an expert level fish without seeing it without a guarantee now? i wouldn't. i'd rather go to my lfs and see it eat at least

i guess you can assume DD has conditioned it a bit at least, but i sure wouldn't feel good about ordering something like that doesn't probably ship well anyway

 

[MnFish1]

maybe, but would you buy an expert level fish without seeing it without a guarantee now? i wouldn't. i'd rather go to my lfs and see it eat at least

i guess you can assume DD has conditioned it a bit at least, but i sure wouldn't feel good about ordering something like that doesn't probably ship well anyway

My question is - what is an 'expert fish' - ie what are the criteria - I why is an striped angelfish an 'expert fish' but a joculator angel - at a price > 3000$ not? There is no advantage to running 'subtheraputic copper' according to several companies I've talked to - and it does not cause 'copper resistance' - expect perhaps to the level the fish are kept at. According to Seachem - they have only seen copper resistance when copper levels are > therapeutic

 

[mattzang]

My question is - what is an 'expert fish' - ie what are the criteria - I why is an striped angelfish an 'expert fish' but a joculator angel - at a price > 3000$ not? There is no advantage to running 'subtheraputic copper' according to several companies I've talked to - and it does not cause 'copper resistance' - expect perhaps to the level the fish are kept at. According to Seachem - they have only seen copper resistance when copper levels are > therapeutic

shrug, fish that don't eat or aren't very hardy i suppose? seems multibar angels and leopard wrasses have been designated that along with a bunch of others i'm sure.

i have no thoughts on copper or quarantining as i'm currently quarantining two fish for the first time

there's still gotta be some value for whatever DD does, people have a lot of success with their fish. i just don't see myself ever ordering an expert level fish from them without the guarantee. the guarantee was so appealing because i'd assume if a fish makes it 2 weeks with you, odds are much greater for their long term survival. their fish are insanely expensive now too. you can go hit up the humblefish qt fish people and their prices are either similar or cheaper a lot of the time. no 2 weeks guarantee from them, but they at least do a full quarantine.