Are my fish sick and if so, what is it??

[MnFish1]

To see how quickly the ammonia is being processed. I've been reading that my ammonia and nitrites should be 0 after 24 hours of adding ammonia to signify that i am cycled.

Sorry - I dont understand - perhaps I'm dense. Below are the directions for Dr. Tim's the key quote being by day 7-8 - your ammonia nitrate will be close to 0 OR below .5 at this point your tank is 'cycled'

"To add One & Only shake the bottle well for a few seconds then pour the entire bottle into your tank. You can also add the One & Only to your sump or filter. Your aquarium water may become cloudy but do not worry it will clear in a short time. Add 4 drops (and 4 drops only*) of DrTim’s ammonium chloride per gallon of aquarium water. This is Day 1 in the chart below. We DO NOT recommend using household ammonia.
Wait 24 hrs - measure ammonia, nitrite and pH. Record on the chart below - this is day 2. On day 3 add another 4 drops of ammonia per gallon of aquarium water**. Measure and record water quality for 2 more days. On Day 6 add another 4 drops of ammonium chloride per gallon of aquarium water**. Measure water quality on Days 7 & 8 - in most cases at this point ammonia and nitrite will be zero or below 0.5. Congrats! Your tank is cycled - now you can add some fish and enjoy your aquarium! Follow the schedule on the chart below ending with your first biweekly 25% water change."

I think 2 hours is pretty short time frame. If the bacteria can process 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, that is good. Since the tank is newly cycled, you WILL need to add the fish in smaller groups.

Jay

I am not sure that he needs to add the fish more slowly - simply because the directions on the Fritz 9000 allow for fish addition on day 1. Though I agree with you - that he has a lot of fish. IMHO - with an ammonia badge - and added bacteria - and the fact that his tank is 'cycled' - he should be good - BUT - sometimes caution is best

:

 

[MnFish1]

Just curious - is the tank you're putting the fish in 'new' - or is it a tank you've had going 'fallow'. My strong feeling after having used Dr. Tim's ammonia - that you're adding more than 2 ppm/day unless you're extremely careful. One way to check this (for the future) - is to measure the ammonia immediately after addition. When I have done this using the measurements recommended on the bottle - I've gotten as much as 5 ppm total ammonia.

 

[alabella1]

Sorry - I dont understand - perhaps I'm dense. Below are the directions for Dr. Tim's the key quote being by day 7-8 - your ammonia nitrate will be close to 0 OR below .5 at this point your tank is 'cycled'

"To add One & Only shake the bottle well for a few seconds then pour the entire bottle into your tank. You can also add the One & Only to your sump or filter. Your aquarium water may become cloudy but do not worry it will clear in a short time. Add 4 drops (and 4 drops only*) of DrTim’s ammonium chloride per gallon of aquarium water. This is Day 1 in the chart below. We DO NOT recommend using household ammonia.
Wait 24 hrs - measure ammonia, nitrite and pH. Record on the chart below - this is day 2. On day 3 add another 4 drops of ammonia per gallon of aquarium water**. Measure and record water quality for 2 more days. On Day 6 add another 4 drops of ammonium chloride per gallon of aquarium water**. Measure water quality on Days 7 & 8 - in most cases at this point ammonia and nitrite will be zero or below 0.5. Congrats! Your tank is cycled - now you can add some fish and enjoy your aquarium! Follow the schedule on the chart below ending with your first biweekly 25% water change."

I am not sure that he needs to add the fish more slowly - simply because the directions on the Fritz 9000 allow for fish addition on day 1. Though I agree with you - that he has a lot of fish. IMHO - with an ammonia badge - and added bacteria - and the fact that his tank is 'cycled' - he should be good - BUT - sometimes caution is best

:

#1 It's a used tank, but it's new to me. I started it from scratch with brand new Tropic Eden Live Mesoflakes. I used Live Rock that a buddy had in his sump. I followed that guide to the letter. The ammonia and nitrites never quite got to zero so after reading a bunch of stuff on fishless cycling I continued to add ammonia every other day and I tested every day and still never saw the ammonia get to zero. So I've never quite felt 100% comfortable saying I'm cycled. Additionally, I've been known to rush things in this hobby up to this point so I'm trying patience this time around. My fish are still in the QT protocol so I'm not trying to rush the new tank because I don't need to.

I'm not sure what Fritz 9000 is. I can't find anything on it. Unless you maybe mean the 900 turbostart. I assume that is the same as Dr. Tims one and only and that I do one or the other. If there is no negative to adding it, I certainly will.

Some last questions are out of fish, corals and inverts, which order should they be added? Oh and today I get my monthly order of 2 jars of pods and a bottle of phytoplankton from algaebarn. That recurring order was for my old tank, i wasn't sure if now was the time to add them to the new tank, but if you say I'm cycled, I probably can get em in there now. Also... lights. So much conflicting info. Turn em on, leave em off, etc etc. BRS says leave em off for four months, dose microbacter 7 or vibrant. I never know what is the best way to do stuff. I'm also on the fence as far as refugium, reactor or scrubber for my nutrient export. I obviously want to get something going because my nitrates are booming.

 

[alabella1]

Just curious - is the tank you're putting the fish in 'new' - or is it a tank you've had going 'fallow'. My strong feeling after having used Dr. Tim's ammonia - that you're adding more than 2 ppm/day unless you're extremely careful. One way to check this (for the future) - is to measure the ammonia immediately after addition. When I have done this using the measurements recommended on the bottle - I've gotten as much as 5 ppm total ammonia.

I did this at the start to confirm the 2 Tbsp was not putting me above 5 which they say is bad. They said shoot between 2-4 for a 150 gallon tank and I was never above 3 so I continued doing the 2 tbsp.

 

[alabella1]

So today is the day. The tank is cycled and fish have been in treatment for 8 weeks. They are currently in the 2 week observation/copper treatment stage. I chose my firefish as the first to go in as i can see him being bullied by some of the bigger boys. I gave him a 5 min fresh dip and moved him over. Wish me and him luck!!

 

[alabella1]

Firefish is adjusting. He's hiding in the bottom right corner, but he moved around a little bit and also ate. I figured he was lonely so I moved the crescent wrasse over to keep him company. Both found spots they like and are hiding. Going to watch the ammonia and slowly bring over the rest of the gang

 

[alabella1]

Ammonia still holding at zero this morning, and the two little fish were doing okay, so I thought I'd try moving the yellow coris over today. Well, he did not love the fresh water dip one bit. I added him to the DT and he is and was acting absolutely nuts. Swimming upside down. Laying on the MP40s, laying against the overflow. He's breathing and if I startle him he starts swimming up and down along the overflow. Very weird. He had some weird moments in the QT as well. Sleeping only half buried, not coming out for dinner. I'd have to stir the sand to get him to come out. Here's some pix and videos of him.

#fishmedic

July 18, 2022

youtube.com

July 18, 2022

youtube.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ammonia still holding at zero this morning, and the two little fish were doing okay, so I thought I'd try moving the yellow coris over today. Well, he did not love the fresh water dip one bit. I added him to the DT and he is and was acting absolutely nuts. Swimming upside down. Laying on the MP40s, laying against the overflow. He's breathing and if I startle him he starts swimming up and down along the overflow. Very weird. He had some weird moments in the QT as well. Sleeping only half buried, not coming out for dinner. I'd have to stir the sand to get him to come out. Here's some pix and videos of him.

#fishmedic

July 18, 2022

youtube.com

July 18, 2022

youtube.com

Well, you need to keep it off the pump. Did the damage to its body and fins happen due to being stuck on the pump, or did it happen before that?
Jay

 

[alabella1]

Well, you need to keep it off the pump. Did the damage to its body and fins happen due to being stuck on the pump, or did it happen before that?
Jay

Not sure. He has been acting a little nuts in the QT as well, bouncing around near the surface and sleeping half in and half out of the sand. Should I pull him back into the QT or let him go the night and see how he is in the AM. The other 2 fish appear to be doing just fine so I do not think it's anything with the water

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not sure. He has been acting a little nuts in the QT as well, bouncing around near the surface and sleeping half in and half out of the sand. Should I pull him back into the QT or let him go the night and see how he is in the AM. The other 2 fish appear to be doing just fine so I do not think it's anything with the water

The general thought is that any fish so weak that it gets pulled into a pump like that is in a really bad way. I would move it to the QT, but I don’t see a specific treatment to try on it.
Jay

 

[alabella1]

Sad to report he didn't make it through the night... and then there were 5. He wasn't looking any better in the DT so I moved him back to QT. He just hung around near the top and always upside down. I tried to get him to go down into the sand but he would just float back up. Not sure if you can see it in the picture but by the end his gills were looking shiny almost like the scales on my golden nugget.

#fishmedic

 

[alabella1]

Well, the 5 remaining fish are now in the new 150 gal display tank. Ammonia appears to be holding steady. They are all hiding a bit which I expected, but they all look to be doing fine and are healthy.

Next up, I'm planning on adding 2x fully quarantined gold stripe maroon clowns from Cultivated Reef (who get their fish from Sea and Reef). Any reason to not just add them to the DT after acclimating? I'm also picking up a purple tang tomorrow who will go directly into QT and anything else I pickup, unless run through a strict QT protocol by the seller (ie. Dr Reef's or Cultivated Reef) they will be put through the protocol by me.

I've learned my lesson and don't want to ever go through that again. The death toll overall I think was 13 dead. I am heartbroken, but I learned a lot and hope to be setting myself up for success going forward.

#fishmedic

 

[Sharkbait19]

Glad to hear things are back on track, even after all the loss.
Personally I would still put the clowns through an observational qt just to make sure the vendor didn’t miss anything.

 

[alabella1]

Glad to hear things are back on track, even after all the loss.
Personally I would still put the clowns through an observational qt just to make sure the vendor didn’t miss anything.

How long do you think is safe? I'm fine chucking them into the Copper with the Tang. Just don't want have to put them through the entire protocol if I can avoid it as most of these sellers charge a premium for the QT services. If I'm going to do it myself anyway, not really worth paying the premium.

 

[Sharkbait19]

For me it would be 2 weeks in a qt just to see if anything pops up. Not entirely necessary, just extra precaution.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long do you think is safe? I'm fine chucking them into the Copper with the Tang. Just don't want have to put them through the entire protocol if I can avoid it as most of these sellers charge a premium for the QT services. If I'm going to do it myself anyway, not really worth paying the premium.

I would run the clowns and tang through a full quarantine cycle - you have to for the tang, so not doing that for the clowns doesn’t really save you any time or anything.
I haven’t kept maroon clowns for going on 40 years - they are just too mean. Do you have a good handle on the ones you are getting? Are they strongly bonded so they won’t fight? Clownfish bonds sometimes break down during moves…..
Jay

 

[alabella1]

I would run the clowns and tang through a full quarantine cycle - you have to for the tang, so not doing that for the clowns doesn’t really save you any time or anything.
I haven’t kept maroon clowns for going on 40 years - they are just too mean. Do you have a good handle on the ones you are getting? Are they strongly bonded so they won’t fight? Clownfish bonds sometimes break down during moves…..
Jay

They are going to send me a bonded pair, yes, and they are tank raised so they say not as aggressive as wild ones. We shall see.

 

[alabella1]

I would run the clowns and tang through a full quarantine cycle - you have to for the tang, so not doing that for the clowns doesn’t really save you any time or anything.
I haven’t kept maroon clowns for going on 40 years - they are just too mean. Do you have a good handle on the ones you are getting? Are they strongly bonded so they won’t fight? Clownfish bonds sometimes break down during moves…..
Jay

Also, even tho they are going through a full QT and coming from sea and reef you still think they need to go through another full QT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, even tho they are going through a full QT and coming from sea and reef you still think they need to go through another full QT?

I would. I always fully quarantine all incoming fish, even those from other public aquariums. No quarantine process is 100% effective, and some dealers have better processes than others. Tank raised fish, from a closed-system aquaculture facility that doesn't sell wild caught fish are pretty safe - just a few ubiquitous protozoans and bacteria to worry about. What can happen though is those fish them go to a dealer, and get mixed in with wild stock. They then get put through a quarantine (or not in some stores) but some worse diseases can get through - Neobenedenia flukes, viruses, etc.

Jay

 

[alabella1]

I would. I always fully quarantine all incoming fish, even those from other public aquariums. No quarantine process is 100% effective, and some dealers have better processes than others. Tank raised fish, from a closed-system aquaculture facility that doesn't sell wild caught fish are pretty safe - just a few ubiquitous protozoans and bacteria to worry about. What can happen though is those fish them go to a dealer, and get mixed in with wild stock. They then get put through a quarantine (or not in some stores) but some worse diseases can get through - Neobenedenia flukes, viruses, etc.

Jay

I gotcha. From what cultivated reef has told me they do not come to them and get mixed with wild stock. They either ship direct from sea and reef or they go into a dedicated area for these fish from sea and reef.