Are my fish sick and if so, what is it??

[alabella1]

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef - Red Sea Max 250
Aquarium water volume: 65 gal
Filtration type: Tunze 9004 DC skimmer, stock pumps plus 2x MP40s, Refugium with Chaeto and Sea Lettuce, bag of Chemipure Blue.
Lighting - LED - Steve's LED retrofit kit ramp up from 11-12. Full from 12-8. 1 hour ramp down. Lights are 100% blue and 25% white I think.
How long has the aquarium been established? The tank is roughly 10 years old or more. It was relocated to my home about 14 months ago. I've battled Cyano, GHA, possibly dinos, but for months now things have been pretty stable.

Digital image of the aquarium under white light - I will post this tonight when I get home.

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature 78 - inkbird controlling heater and chiller
pH: 8.4
Salinity / specific gravity 35.2 ppt
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 32.5 ppm
Phosphorus - .41 ppm
Copper - 0
Calcium - 390 ppm
Mag - 1400 ppm
Alk - 11.0 dKH

Here's some parameters for weeks...

I know my Phos and Nit. are pretty high, but all my corals appear happy and the fish and inverts seem ok too. I'm due to change water this week. I'm not sure why my chaeto and sea lettuce are not keeping the phos down. I've tried phosguard, gfo in a bag, etc. with occasional success but the tank always tends to run high. I was entertaining phosban-l but didn't want to unless it was absolutely necessary.

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? unsure. A couple died but I did not see any of this on them. Last night I found my mandarin dead and this morning the large black clown who was looking the dustiest was laying dead at the front of the tank. I never quarantine new fish as my usual LFS treats all fish with copper when they get them in. 2 weeks ago I picked a coral beauty and a yellow head sleeper goby from them. The coral beauty didn't make it but a couple days but the goby was doing just fine. Flash forward a week when on a whim I visited another LFS that I'd never been to before. The place looked very clean, well maintained, the fish all looked healthy, so I picked up a blue eye anthias. He was doing just fine for about a week but then suddenly went MIA. Shortly after I started noticing the dusty look on the clowns and these spots on my foxface.

Are any invertebrates affected? no they seem fine
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) I didn't get a chance to do this but I can tonight.
Are the affected fish still feeding? yes, everyone is eating fine
What remedies have you tried so far? nothing yet - feeding a cube of frozen mysis daily and half a large sheet Ocean Nutrition Seaweed Selects Green Marine Algae ever other day.
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light -

- if needed, indicate by drawing a line around the area in question.
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well) - I can try to do this tonight as well.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for the in-depth problem report. Even with that, remote diagnosis can be challenging. The clownfish could have advanced ich or Brooklynella. The foxface has more defined spots, so that is probably ich.

Can you try posting a short video? (Youtube linking works well).
Do you have access to a treatment tank?

Jay

 

[alabella1]

I do not have a treatment tank setup. I do have a 6 gallon fluval edge that I can whip up pretty quick If it would work. The weird thing about the foxface is that when his full yellow color returns you can barely see the spots.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nitrate and phosphate elevated and agree on brooklynella

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do not have a treatment tank setup. I do have a 6 gallon fluval edge that I can whip up pretty quick If it would work. The weird thing about the foxface is that when his full yellow color returns you can barely see the spots.

The spots may or may not be ich. Could also be flukes or turbellarian worms. One key to diagnosing ich is that the spots will come and go, and show up in different locations, while worm parasites will produce more stable spots.
The clownfish do seem to have a protozoan infection though. Trouble is - copper is used for ich (in a treatment tank) but formalin is needed if it is brooklynella.

Jay

 

[alabella1]

Here is a rundown of the current survivors.

 

[threebuoys]

That's a lot of fish to try to house in a 6 gallon QT. But you definitely will need to QT all of the fish to successfully combat whichever parasite(s) are in the tank. You will also need to keep the DT fallow for 6-10 weeks before returning the fish. Perhaps you can get a 20, or 29 gallon better yet, tank to set up for QT. Petco has these on sale now at $25 and $40 respectively.

Follow the Current QT protocol to treat crypto or velvet. As Jay indicated, formalin is the product currently available to treat brooklynella.

 

[alabella1]

I'm fine with picking up another tank from Petco. How do I set it up? Do I need to cycle the tank? How long will that take? How will the wrasses fair with no substrate?

I was just about to pickup this 120 gallon corner tank and start getting ready for an upgrade, but now I probably need to get this under control before I attempt do that.

 

[threebuoys]

Basics are

• No substrate
• No calcareous rock
• Ambient light will be adequate
• cover to prevent jumpers
• cycled filter to control ammonia without frequent water changes, foam filter or a hang-on-back will work fine, You can add biospira or Bacter 7 to speed the cycle, but closely monitor ammonia to insure its working
• Places for fish to hide
• tray of clean play sand with adequate depth for burrowing fish to hide
• reliable test kit for Ammonia (Salifert or Red Sea recommended)
• reliable test kit/device for copper (Hanna recommended)
• Copper Power or CopperSafe recommended

Follow the link below for more specifics

 

[MnFish1]

Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Reef - Red Sea Max 250
Aquarium water volume: 65 gal
Filtration type: Tunze 9004 DC skimmer, stock pumps plus 2x MP40s, Refugium with Chaeto and Sea Lettuce, bag of Chemipure Blue.
Lighting - LED - Steve's LED retrofit kit ramp up from 11-12. Full from 12-8. 1 hour ramp down. Lights are 100% blue and 25% white I think.
How long has the aquarium been established? The tank is roughly 10 years old or more. It was relocated to my home about 14 months ago. I've battled Cyano, GHA, possibly dinos, but for months now things have been pretty stable.

Digital image of the aquarium under white light - I will post this tonight when I get home.

Water quality (be sure to indicate what measurement units you are using)
Temperature 78 - inkbird controlling heater and chiller
pH: 8.4
Salinity / specific gravity 35.2 ppt
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 32.5 ppm
Phosphorus - .41 ppm
Copper - 0
Calcium - 390 ppm
Mag - 1400 ppm
Alk - 11.0 dKH

Here's some parameters for weeks...

I know my Phos and Nit. are pretty high, but all my corals appear happy and the fish and inverts seem ok too. I'm due to change water this week. I'm not sure why my chaeto and sea lettuce are not keeping the phos down. I've tried phosguard, gfo in a bag, etc. with occasional success but the tank always tends to run high. I was entertaining phosban-l but didn't want to unless it was absolutely necessary.

In-depth information:
Have you lost any fish to this problem yet? unsure. A couple died but I did not see any of this on them. Last night I found my mandarin dead and this morning the large black clown who was looking the dustiest was laying dead at the front of the tank. I never quarantine new fish as my usual LFS treats all fish with copper when they get them in. 2 weeks ago I picked a coral beauty and a yellow head sleeper goby from them. The coral beauty didn't make it but a couple days but the goby was doing just fine. Flash forward a week when on a whim I visited another LFS that I'd never been to before. The place looked very clean, well maintained, the fish all looked healthy, so I picked up a blue eye anthias. He was doing just fine for about a week but then suddenly went MIA. Shortly after I started noticing the dusty look on the clowns and these spots on my foxface.

Are any invertebrates affected? no they seem fine
Respiration rate of affected fish (in gill beats per minutes, count for 15 seconds and multiply by 4) I didn't get a chance to do this but I can tonight.
Are the affected fish still feeding? yes, everyone is eating fine
What remedies have you tried so far? nothing yet - feeding a cube of frozen mysis daily and half a large sheet Ocean Nutrition Seaweed Selects Green Marine Algae ever other day.
Digital image of the fish with the health issue, taken under white light -

- if needed, indicate by drawing a line around the area in question.
Short video of the fish (linked YouTube videos work well) - I can try to do this tonight as well.

I know there are other replies - I havent read them - my response

1. A+++++ on answering the question - and the pictures.
2. The clowns look like brooklynella - but that may be a bit of 'confirmation bias' in that every sick clown is thought to have brooklynella.
3. To me - it looks like velvet or bad Crytocaryon

I would suggest - getting a hospital tank ready (if you have not) - and getting some copper (chelated) - as well - in case you need to use it.

PS - your corals and fish are outstanding. and I hope this helps.

 

[alabella1]

Ok, here is the full tank picture, video and pix of my pajama cardinal who's looking a little dusty too.

 

[alabella1]

Basics are

• No substrate
• No calcareous rock
• Ambient light will be adequate
• cover to prevent jumpers
• cycled filter to control ammonia without frequent water changes, foam filter or a hang-on-back will work fine, You can add biospira or Bacter 7 to speed the cycle, but closely monitor ammonia to insure its working
• Places for fish to hide
• tray of clean play sand with adequate depth for burrowing fish to hide
• reliable test kit for Ammonia (Salifert or Red Sea recommended)
• reliable test kit/device for copper (Hanna recommended)
• Copper Power or CopperSafe recommended

Follow the link below for more specifics

Ok... so... in terms of the cycle and speeding the cycle. I've used Dr. Tim's before. Never used anything else. How long before I can add the fish and start treating them. I have a good airstone. Also what exactly is a "cycled filter"? I have a filter from my 6 gal tank I was using up until a couple weeks ago... so maybe it could be considered cycled? Can you show me what a tray of clean play sand would look like? I have 3 wrasses, so they are going to be looking to burrow for sure.

 

[MnFish1]

the fish seem to be swimming towards the flow - velvet - flukes. we need more info - click on the link second - in my signature. nice tank btw

 

[alabella1]

I know there are other replies - I havent read them - my response

1. A+++++ on answering the question - and the pictures.
2. The clowns look like brooklynella - but that may be a bit of 'confirmation bias' in that every sick clown is thought to have brooklynella.
3. To me - it looks like velvet or bad Crytocaryon

I would suggest - getting a hospital tank ready (if you have not) - and getting some copper (chelated) - as well - in case you need to use it.

PS - your corals and fish are outstanding. and I hope this helps.

Thanks for the kind words. Hoping to get this under control and save my poor fish. I was so excited about the prospect of setting up a shiny new 120 gallon corner tank for them, but now I guess this is going to be a setback...

 

[alabella1]

Thinking of grabbing this - https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-led-29-gallon-aquarium-kit and a 5lb bag of sand for the wrasses - what sand would be best?

 

[threebuoys]

Thinking of grabbing this - https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/aqueon-led-29-gallon-aquarium-kit and a 5lb bag of sand for the wrasses - what sand would be best?

The 29 is a good choice. The sand I use was "washed" play sand from Home Depot. I rinsed it and put it in a shallow tupperware container about 2 inches deep x 6 inches by 10 inches, just something I had at the house. If you buy sand at the pet store, just be sure it is not the typical crushed shells or limestone that is often sold for aquariums. If the sand is calcareous (contains calcium) it will absorb copper reducing its effectiveness.

A cycled filter would be one that has been used for several weeks on a display tank, long enough for it to build an adequate bacteria population to process ammonia. The filter you had on your 6 gallon may work if it was in use long enough on an active tank. I keep a canister filter running full time on my QT. Another option is to place a foam filter powered by an air pump in your DT sump.for several weeks. You can use bacteria in a bottle, but often it requires several days to become effective. Unless you have a cycled tank by virtue of the cycled filter or mature bacteria from bacteria in a bottle, you run the risk of ammonia poison, hence the need to test daily intil you are confident the tank is cycled..

Since your fish appear to be infected, you should not delay treatment. You'll just need to monitor ammonia and be prepared to do water changes if it gets too high. If you do a water change, you will need to add enough medication to maintain the target level. If you use copper, get to your target level in no more than 12 hours, but 4 to 6 hours would be even better.

 

[alabella1]

The 29 is a good choice. The sand I use was "washed" play sand from Home Depot. I rinsed it and put it in a shallow tupperware container about 2 inches deep x 6 inches by 10 inches, just something I had at the house. If you buy sand at the pet store, just be sure it is not the typical crushed shells or limestone that is often sold for aquariums. If the sand is calcareous (contains calcium) it will absorb copper reducing its effectiveness.

A cycled filter would be one that has been used for several weeks on a display tank, long enough for it to build an adequate bacteria population to process ammonia. The filter you had on your 6 gallon may work if it was in use long enough on an active tank. I keep a canister filter running full time on my QT. Another option is to place a foam filter powered by an air pump in your DT sump.for several weeks. You can use bacteria in a bottle, but often it requires several days to become effective. Unless you have a cycled tank by virtue of the cycled filter or mature bacteria from bacteria in a bottle, you run the risk of ammonia poison, hence the need to test daily intil you are confident the tank is cycled..

Since your fish appear to be infected, you should not delay treatment. You'll just need to monitor ammonia and be prepared to do water changes if it gets too high. If you do a water change, you will need to add enough medication to maintain the target level. If you use copper, get to your target level in no more than 12 hours, but 4 to 6 hours would be even better.

Ok, so, I officially broke down the 6 gallon tank 5/8. The filter was cleaned, and everything rinsed and it's been sitting in a bucket since. Not sure if there is life left in it. A far as a quick cycle, I did it once with Dr. Tim's and got it going pretty quick. I could go that route again. I'm honestly just not sure how much time these poor fish have to wait. I need the quickest route possible to treating them. Is there any treatment that can be started in the reef tank until i cycle the 29 gallon?

 

[alabella1]

Woke up to the little mocha clown dead. Every death is absolutely killing me. I need to get these guys into some medication the absolute quickest way possible. What's your best recommendations. I'm going to round up all I can today and get going.

 

[threebuoys]

Woke up to the little mocha clown dead. Every death is absolutely killing me. I need to get these guys into some medication the absolute quickest way possible. What's your best recommendations. I'm going to round up all I can today and get going.

Sooner you can set the QT up, the better your chances. Get the fish and the medication in it, use a bacteria in bottle option, but monitor ammonia daily and have mixed water standing by in case you have to make water changes to reduce ammonia. Really nothing you can do in your DT.

 

[alabella1]

From speaking with friends and LFS, it is sounding a lot like velvet so I'm going to have to move fast to save the rest of my crew.