Are my fish sick and if so, what is it??

[alabella1]

Paracleanse contains metronidazole and praziquantel. The mfg instructions indicate a different protocol than what we normally recommend, so I'm not entirely sure how to correctly blend to two.

The current protocol only uses praziquantel. Doses on day 1 achieve a concentration of 2.5mg/l. 25% water change on day 8, and a second dose of praziquantel again at 2.5mg/l. Some will follow up with a third dose 8 days later.

Paracleanse dosage results in a 2 mg/l concentration repeated on day 3 and a water change on 5. Then repeat if symptoms persist.

So, the frequency timing is different, the concentation is a little lower than the protocol for prazi, but similar if the Fritz product is used again at 5 days after the second dose.

The second dose in 3 days may be due to the use of metronidazole.

Ok, so summing it up, 5 days after the 25% WC start the second cycle of 5 day treatment?

 

[threebuoys]

Following paracleanse instructions:

Day 1 Paracleanse
Day 3 Paracleanse
Day 5 25% waterchange
Day 6 Paracleanse
Day 8 Paracleanse
Day 11 25% waterchange

I believe the Day 3 and Day 8 doses are due to the product including metronidazole.
Be sure to use extra aeration to avoid oxygen depletion due to bacteria that consume the prazi and its carrier.

Current R2R recommended protocol:

Day 1 (after completion of copper treatment) Praziquantel w/ extra aeration
Day 8 25% water change and Praziquantel
Day 15 25% water change and Praziquantel

 

[alabella1]

And then there were 7. I noticed several of the fish were acting weird yesterday after adding paracleanse dose two. Everyone seems ok now but this guy didn't make it.

#fishmedic

 

[Jay Hemdal]

And then there were 7. I noticed several of the fish were acting weird yesterday after adding paracleanse dose two. Everyone seems ok now but this guy didn't make it.

#fishmedic

How were the fish acting "weird"?

Sometimes, when fish have flukes really bad, treating them kills them. What happens is that the medication causes the flukes to drop off the fish. However, the suckers of the flukes had made holes in the fish's skin and the suckers were acting like corks. All the flukes drop off and then, the fish bleed out.

Not saying that's what happened here (since it was a second dose), but it is a pretty common thing to see.

Jay

 

[alabella1]

Swimming weird, breathing heavy, lethargic. It was mostly him and the tomini tang. The foxface kept darting toward the surface.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Swimming weird, breathing heavy, lethargic. It was mostly him and the tomini tang. The foxface kept darting toward the surface.

Well, did you double check your tank volume and dosing calculations? As mentioned, it is important to increase aeration when you dose praziquantel….not sure what else might be going on here.

Jay

 

[alabella1]

Yes, Tank is 20 gallons and it says dose one packet per 10 gal so I did 2 packets. I have a large airstone running in there around the clock.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes, Tank is 20 gallons and it says dose one packet per 10 gal so I did 2 packets. I have a large airstone running in there around the clock.

O.K., remember though, not all aquarium hold their rated capacity, your tank may only hold 18 gallons if not filled to the top. Still, those two drugs have fairly broad dosing....

Jay

 

[alabella1]

I've just never seemed to have luck with foxfaces, but he was the one that lived the longest

 

[alabella1]

Hey all! Just wanted to give an update. The Lucky 7 are all still alive and kickin. I am dropping in the final dose of paracleanse tonight. 25% change on Friday and then that's done and on to the next phase. I'll likely go copper again before starting a move back to the new tank. Cycle not completely done yet. What do you recommend as far as the moving of fish into the new tank. How many at a time and how much time in between?

Also... while going through this process I stumbled upon the tank transfer method and the hybrid tank transfer method.
What are your thoughts on that?

#fishmedic

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey all! Just wanted to give an update. The Lucky 7 are all still alive and kickin. I am dropping in the final dose of paracleanse tonight. 25% change on Friday and then that's done and on to the next phase. I'll likely go copper again before starting a move back to the new tank. Cycle not completely done yet. What do you recommend as far as the moving of fish into the new tank. How many at a time and how much time in between?

Also... while going through this process I stumbled upon the tank transfer method and the hybrid tank transfer method.
What are your thoughts on that?

#fishmedic

I’m not a fan of TTM, it is rough to handle new fish that much, and it really is not effective against parasites that don’t need to leave the fish to reproduce. I never really recommend it.
If the DT has a solid biofilter, I prefer to move fish all at once. If it doesn’t, then I move in about 20% of the fish per week, starting with the most delicate/peaceful ones.
Jay

 

[MnFish1]

I’m not a fan of TTM, it is rough to handle new fish that much, and it really is not effective against parasites that don’t need to leave the fish to reproduce. I never really recommend it.
If the DT has a solid biofilter, I prefer to move fish all at once. If it doesn’t, then I move in about 20% of the fish per week, starting with the most delicate/peaceful ones.
Jay

would move them all at once - and I would add bottled bacteria - watching ammonia closely - and I would recommend Fritz 9000 per instructions

 

[alabella1]

would move them all at once - and I would add bottled bacteria - watching ammonia closely - and I would recommend Fritz 9000 per instructions

I've already done Dr. Tim's one and only and I've been dosing Dr. Tim's ammonia every day or every other day depending on my ammonia reading. I've been cycling 21 days. Here's how the last few days have looked. Assume I'm adding about 2ppm of ammonia per day toward the end.

 

[MnFish1]

You should not be adding ammonia every other day. IMHO - your cycle is 'done'. Whether the amount of bacteria will accept that fish load is the question - SO - when you add your fish - add more bacteria per the directions. IMHO. PS - how are you dosing your Dr. Tim's if you're using the 'drops/gallon' method - you may be dosing more than 2 ppm

 

[alabella1]

You should not be adding ammonia every other day. IMHO - your cycle is 'done'. Whether the amount of bacteria will accept that fish load is the question - SO - when you add your fish - add more bacteria per the directions. IMHO. PS - how are you dosing your Dr. Tim's if you're using the 'drops/gallon' method - you may be dosing more than 2 ppm

150 gallon tank - 4 drops per gallon - 600 drops. 1 Tbsp = 300 drops so I've been doing 2 Tbsp.

 

[MnFish1]

150 gallon tank - 4 drops per gallon - 600 drops. 1 Tbsp = 300 drops so I've been doing 2 Tbsp.

That is probably more accurate - but I am not sure why you're still adding ammonia?

 

[alabella1]

That is probably more accurate - but I am not sure why you're still adding ammonia?

To see how quickly the ammonia is being processed. I've been reading that my ammonia and nitrites should be 0 after 24 hours of adding ammonia to signify that i am cycled.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

To see how quickly the ammonia is being processed. I've been reading that my ammonia and nitrites should be 0 after 2 hours of adding ammonia to signify that i am cycled.

I think 2 hours is pretty short time frame. If the bacteria can process 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, that is good. Since the tank is newly cycled, you WILL need to add the fish in smaller groups.

Jay

 

[alabella1]

I think 2 hours is pretty short time frame. If the bacteria can process 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, that is good. Since the tank is newly cycled, you WILL need to add the fish in smaller groups.

Jay

Lol, sorry, should have read 24 hours.

 

[alabella1]

That being said I don't think I'm quite there yet being that there's a small trace of ammonia and a good amount of nitrites after 24 hours.