Are My SPS Goners?

[plankton]

Sorry some of your corals are stressed. If the polyps are simply white that is fine and they will recover. If there is actual tissue loss that is bigger deal and normally you need to remove the coral, frag the good tissue (like the top of that stylo, dip , mount on new plug and place in a different location.

Of you have cyano bacteria then yes you need to finish that phase of tank and /or irradicate as it and byproducts will just make life miserable for you and tank.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

I'm going to take a guess here, but its something I've harped on.

Your nitrate is 15-20 and phosphate at .16. Most SPS frags bought from commercial growers come from low nutrient tanks to keep low maintenance. Your nitrate and phosphate levels are fairly high and will cause big problems if corals come from a low nutrient tank. Phosphate at .16 is a big issue if the source tank is running .01

SPS can acclimate to higher nutrient tanks obviously , but they acclimate as they grow.

We really need to push commercial sellers to post nitrate and phosphate levels along with alk.

You’re right, my nutrients are way too high compared to TSM.

Looks to me like the stylos are getting too much light on their shaded sides. If you don't know the par of the system they are coming from it can be assumed that acros were probably kept in higher par and other sps quite possibly in lower where the light is also typically more directional. 60% of 200 to 300 is still a lot but I'd imagine the % started much lower than that. The acros have the opposite issue whereby the tips look bad which could also be too much light or burnt tips but all of the is confounded by the potential difference in nutrient levels as Blasterman noted so who knows.
I think the acros will be okay, the purple Stylo is probably beyond hope but I would keep pulling for the rest of them and maybe stop at 60% for a while.

This is what my PAR mapped out at once lights get to 100%. Stylo would be right about 250. The acros would be in that 290-320 range. Should I still pause the acclimation you think?

Sorry some of your corals are stressed. If the polyps are simply white that is fine and they will recover. If there is actual tissue loss that is bigger deal and normally you need to remove the coral, frag the good tissue (like the top of that stylo, dip , mount on new plug and place in a different location.

Of you have cyano bacteria then yes you need to finish that phase of tank and /or irradicate as it and byproducts will just make life miserable for you and tank.

Thanks for the advice, I didn’t think about fragging it. I’ll see how it looks today after work as it went downhill pretty fast from Mon-Tues.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Just heard back from Tidal Gardens. Looks like my nutrients were not far off from theirs and my PAR from acclimating towards their PAR isn’t too much? Could the acros be doing bad from the low PAR? I started acclimating at 40% of AB+ set to 100% (the results of my PAR map) Thinking maybe just the crazy fluctuation in nutrients or cyano that is causing issues.

 

[shred5]

Just heard back from Tidal Gardens. Looks like my nutrients were not far off from theirs and my PAR from acclimating towards their PAR isn’t too much? Could the acros be doing bad from the low PAR? I started acclimating at 40% of AB+ set to 100% (the results of my PAR map) Thinking maybe just the crazy fluctuation in nutrients or cyano that is causing issues.

I think there is a chance it is one of the following: chemistry issue, acclimation issue, shipping issue and slight chance it is flow.
How do you check salinity?

Did you test the temps of the corals when you got them? Usually temp is not a problem at this time of the year but it could be. I have had corals shipped with heat packs and the water was way high in temp at this time of the year.


Could it be light? maybe but I do not think so.

Low light levels will cause a coral to brown out as a coral will increases the amount of zooxanthellae.

With high light a coral will bleach expel its zooxanthellae. If they are bleaching from light they would bleach most likely from the area getting the most light first. I do not see that in the pictures.

Par is not just the only thing that needs to be considered but also light duration and most people do not think about that. If I buy a coral from 300 par and they are running 8 hour schedule. I place the coral under 300 par but I run 10 hrs or 12 hrs that is a lot more light than what it is used to o. So in this case with longer photoperiod you would want to use less par. Always shoot low on par because you can always slowly bring it up, low won't nuke a coral.

 

[Waters]

Are you double checking your salinity against the apex probe? I would start there if not.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

I think there is a chance it is one of the following: chemistry issue, acclimation issue, shipping issue and slight chance it is flow.
How do you check salinity?

Did you test the temps of the corals when you got them? Usually temp is not a problem at this time of the year but it could be. I have had corals shipped with heat packs and the water was way high in temp at this time of the year.


Could it be light? maybe but I do not think so.

Low light levels will cause a coral to brown out as a coral will increases the amount of zooxanthellae.

With high light a coral will bleach expel its zooxanthellae. If they are bleaching from light they would bleach most likely from the area getting the most light first. I do not see that in the pictures.

Par is not just the only thing that needs to be considered but also light duration and most people do not think about that. If I buy a coral from 300 par and they are running 8 hour schedule. I place the coral under 300 par but I run 10 hrs or 12 hrs that is a lot more light than what it is used to o. So in this case with longer photoperiod you would want to use less par. Always shoot low on par because you can always slowly bring it up, low won't nuke a coral.

Thank you for differentiating browning vs. bleaching for me. The coral were all packed well from TSM and tidal gardens. I floated them for 30 mins then did coral Rx pro dip then put them in the bottom of the tank for a couple days while I mapped my PAR. Didn’t drip acclimate as my salinity is always 1.025-26. I test salinity with the pinpoint salinity monitor that was calibrated 6mos ago. Then I also just added the Neptune salinity probe that was calibrated last week.

I don’t have direct flow on any of the SPS, but I have 2 MP10s on both sides of the aquascape and my return nozzles have the VCA random flow generators that keep the tank pretty stirred up being pushed by a Vectra M2. Display tank is only 34 gallons.

I didn’t ask TSM or tidal gardens about their photoperiod length. My main photoperiod is only 6hrs. I read that a shorter more intense photoperiod was better at reducing algae growth than a longer less intense photoperiod. My lights are on for 12hrs with a ramp up for 3hrs then AB+ for 6hrs then ramp down for 3hrs and a 1hr lunar phase at beginning and end.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Are you double checking your salinity against the apex probe? I would start there if not.

Apex was just calibrated and installed over the weekend but prior to that I’ve been using a pinpoint salinity monitor that was calibrated 6 months ago. They’re both reading within 1ppt.

 

[Suohhen]

You’re right, my nutrients are way too high compared to TSM.

This is what my PAR mapped out at once lights get to 100%. Stylo would be right about 250. The acros would be in that 290-320 range. Should I still pause the acclimation you think?

Thanks for the advice, I didn’t think about fragging it. I’ll see how it looks today after work as it went downhill pretty fast from Mon-Tues.

I would certainly pause the acclimation. Corals do not need more than 100 par to thrive unless they are heavily pigmented but even then they can adapt to lower light and you would see this as shed noted the coral would look more brown. Also since algae is a potential issue here I'd slow things down. But yeah for some of the coral it is clearly not an issue of too much light, the stylo however seems quite possible.
The burnt tips on some of the coral could be from skipping drip acclimation. Salinity is only one component, alk is the big driver of tip burn.
And ofc there is the great unknown, as you can see by the varied responses there are simply so many factors. Keep up the good fight!

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Well, I started 10% daily water changes Tuesday and have completed three water changes. Nitrate is down from 20 to 5-7.5, BUT my phosphates have only gone down from 0.16 to 0.12!?!? What gives? I was waiting until nitrates were in check to test the phosphate and thought it would come down proportionally, but apparently there is a process at work I'm unaware of. Stylo has been stable and is not getting worse. Everything in the tank except SPS seems to be doing well. I have a Carbon/GFO reactor on order from BRS to get this phosphate down and hopefully help me weather this cyano.

 

[dedragon]

The reactor isnt necessary, you actually have gotten nitrate and phosphate in a good range now. Phosphate is much harder to bring down as it gets bound to the rocks but in time it will if feeding and nutrient export is taken care of.
Be very careful with gfo in a reactor as it can quickly strip all phosphate and do more harm than good. I just use carbon in a filter bag now as it works fine for me but rarely use gfo, still filter bags seem to do the trick for me in a high flow sump.
I would also wait another 2 days and then look at parameters to see how they change, it will give you an idea how to proceed further

 

[Wasabiroot]

Your salinity seems low. I would raise to 35. Also, I would try to aim for less fluctuation in temperature. There appears to be a 3 degree swing with 80 as your max. Not saying corals can't tolerate that, but with tissue loss already you want to minimize other stressor. Aim for 77 or 78 and try to keep it within one degree.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Your salinity seems low. I would raise to 35. Also, I would try to aim for less fluctuation in temperature. There appears to be a 3 degree swing with 80 as your max. Not saying corals can't tolerate that, but with tissue loss already you want to minimize other stressor. Aim for 77 or 78 and try to keep it within one degree.

Yes, I never realized my temp fluctuated that much until I recently installed the APEX temp probe. I use an inkbird controller with min at 78 and max at 79 yet for some reason it is allowing my temp to drop down to almost 77. I'm thinking my heater may be undersized. My tank and sump is 44 gallons (likely 35gal if subtracting aquascape). I'm using an eheim thermocontrol 125w which is rated for 40-53 gallons, yet it seems it's not turning on quickly enough or taking too long to heat up?

 

[Wasabiroot]

Yes, I never realized my temp fluctuated that much until I recently installed the APEX temp probe. I use an inkbird controller with min at 78 and max at 79 yet for some reason it is allowing my temp to drop down to almost 77. I'm thinking my heater may be undersized. My tank and sump is 44 gallons (likely 35gal if subtracting aquascape). I'm using an eheim thermocontrol 125w which is rated for 40-53 gallons, yet it seems it's not turning on quickly enough or taking too long to heat up?

With the ink bird the minimum temp difference allowed to trigger is one degree. So, 78-1 =77 and 79+1 =80. You could probably get away with setting it to 78 with a one degree fluctuation. Could maybe get a second small heater (if it's the ink bird with two plugs).

On my 50g cube with around 25 sump, I have two 100w titanium heaters on an inkbird set to 78 with a 1 deg tolerance. They do a good job keeping it close. So maybe a second 100w or 50w to help the larger heater turn on less and create more consistency. Either way, it's probably several things rather than one thing like stated above. Just don't change too many things simultaneously to avoid further stress. Start with salinity /dKH stability, then temp etc. I agree that the Stylo looks in trouble but the rest may pull through with stability and patience.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

With the ink bird the minimum temp difference allowed to trigger is one degree. So, 78-1 =77 and 79+1 =80. You could probably get away with setting it to 78 with a one degree fluctuation. Could maybe get a second small 50w heater (if it's the ink bird with two plugs).

Ok, I was debating changing the set point so looks like I'll pull the trigger on that. Thanks fellow Michigander! I'm originally form Warren, moved to TX 10 years ago.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

Re-calibrated by pinpoint and my tank salinity was right at 35ppt! So I used my tank as a calibration and re-calibrated my apex probe to my tank. Also used the TC of 2.2 to hopefully adjust for temp swings. Apparently that was a large reason for my salinity swings, they were moving lockstep with my temp.

 

[dwest]

If it were my tank, I would certainly not add GFO. I think that could cause many more problems than help. I would do weekly 10% water changes and likely try to stabilize temperature. I believe your tank just needs some more time to handle sps. It’s often just that simple.

 

[schuby]

My $0.02.

You mentioned you just started heavy feeding. I'd guess you were bottomed out on nitrate and phosphate for weeks. Due to this lack of nutrients, your SPS starved. They may survive if you stabilize nutrients above zero. Probably won't if nutrients yo-yo up and down. Might not anyways.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Stylophora in particular seem susceptible to RTN when things change, I've noticed. I think you're on the right track, though.

 

[FortLivingRoom]

If it were my tank, I would certainly not add GFO. I think that could cause many more problems than help. I would do weekly 10% water changes and likely try to stabilize temperature. I believe your tank just needs some more time to handle sps. It’s often just that simple.

You were right about GFO. Phosphate went from 0.12 to 0.6 without another 10% water change. I’ve got my AWC back to doing 1.5% daily water changes.

Salinity is looking great after re-calibrating and correcting for temp. Everything in the tank looks MUCH better. Stylo has still lost a lot of tissue but where tissue is lef the polyps are extending well so we’ll see. I’ve had my skimmer in the box the last couple months as I thought my nutrients were too low. I hooked that up last night and it really helped boost my pH with the better aeration.