Are the Instagram and YouTube cultures bad for the reef keeping hobby?

[ScubaFish802]

There's a lot attached here that we don't need to get into, but IG is not helping with that.

If anything it is doing quite the opposite. People come in expecting a glass box filled with rainbows, how could one not be discouraged when the 1st year is literally as far on the opposite side of the spectrum as you can get from that

 

[HuduVudu]

BRS has found that well over half of their customers have been in the hobby longer than 5 years.

How many started on the site with time under their belt?

It is hard to measure but even if you have been in the hobby for a while as an aquarist, you see who keeps showing up.

I had a business and many of the loyal customers I met years later in the LFS. Hilariously some are even here. I can't say definitevly but I can say the attrition is pretty high.

 

[HuduVudu]

If anything it is doing quite the opposite. People come in expecting a glass box filled with rainbows, how could one not be discouraged when the 1st year is literally as far on the opposite side of the spectrum as you can get from that

Green red and brown are pretty colors.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Yeah I keep meaning to make some "struggle" threads for this reason. One of the hardest things I think in this hobby is knowing when you need to do something or when to seek out help. Like what issues are truly emergent and which might correct themselves with little intervention. I do a lot of documenting my tank with my phone, especially when I'm having issues so that I have them if I need to post a help thread or just for my own personal record keeping to see the progress and changes my corals and fish have. One very specific example is how bubble tip anemones look when they excrete waste. If you don't have experience with anemones and haven't seen them deflate and inflate you would probably see a deflated BTA and say its dying but then 10 minutes later its inflated again looking completely normal. I almost posted a thread about my green BTA the first time I saw it deflate but then decided to give it some time and sure enough it inflated back to normal. But I remember thinking are mine the only ones that do this or do others see this too and just don't talk about it on the forums.

I'm convinced a lot of these "HELPPP" threads that are posted and receive several responses but then become abandoned by the OP are because the issue the OP had resolved itself on its own and they did not go back to update everyone. I try to follow-up with posts that I have provided advice to but sometimes that becomes too much.

I remember being dramatic and thinking I was going to have to start over with my tank after I got back from vacation and it was drowning in GHA. But instead of freaking out I just did some research and reduced feedings back to what I was doing before vacation and started manually removing some GHA every couple of days and eventually the issue resolved on its own.

A similar phenomenon occurs in science and referred to as publication bias. This is also getting worse these days with the competitiveness of acquiring research funding. Publication bias is basically the idea that journals and researchers are more likely to publish manuscripts with data that has positive results instead of negative results. This creates an issue where you have an accumulation of unanswered questions on a topic because it is not seen positively to publish results of an experiment where your data rejects your hypothesis. While this may not be helpful data to you it might be helpful to others in the future who need this data to answer more novel questions. This also means that a lot of researchers repeat the same experiments and work just to answer the same questions someone else probably already answered but did not publish. It is something very frustrating but is part of the culture now in the publishing of scientific literature.

Publication bias! Here, it’s confirmation bias. I come across so many posts where someone asks for help, suggestions or advice only to shoot everyone down until they finally get the response they were looking for. No intention of listening to anyone, except those that confirmed their bias. Just come out and say, this is what I’m going to do please agree with me, so not everyone wastes their time trying to help a fellow reefer. Ha

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

I’ve been Reefing for 20 years. I had my share of success and more failures then I would like to admit. I really don’t use social media but am an active member on this site. I am guilty of sharing my success and keep my posts of my failures to a minimum. I read a lot to figure out where I went wrong and correct the problems
Where and when I can and ask for help amongst my friends and reef community. When it’s fixed I tend to post the system and the positive results and may or may not bring it up the problems. Think it’s just being human wanting to look at their best amongst peers. I try to help when I can based on my experiences and try to b as open and understanding as possible. Always learning. I do think that YT and IG helped get this hobby out there but not a fan of either. Not my generation. Lol.

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Green red and brown are pretty colors.

Go 6500k.

 

[SunnyX]

Caveat emptor : "Let the buyer beware”

This is an interesting topic, and one that not only affects and has affected our greater society, but is also rife in the hobby. As with humans, you generally are only going to get a persons highlight reel on social media. I’m sure that many of us have looked in at images and videos of what appear to be the perfect families, only to know that the truth is far from what is represented. The same can be said about images of others and how they get distorted.

Most of us, at least the ones who make a conscious effort to be enlightened and aware, know full well that everything posted online must be viewed through the lens that it has been presented. At the end of the day, many online are not posting images for accuracy, they are doing so for likes and follows. And frankly, I don’t think many people really care if the image or video is an accurate representation of that particular subject matter. It’s all about that quick dopamine hit, all image and no content. If something is beautiful and pleases the senses, does it matter if it’s real?

Yes, there are some shameless aquarium examples out there that do put out the wrong message. One reef in particular is PRISTINE beyond measure. The aquarium is so clean that my only conclusion is that it is a holagram. Yet, I know that with lots of hard work and maintenance these things can be achieved.

With my images, and especially videos, I will state that “It’s water change Saturday” and that I had just finished vacuuming the sand and polishing the water with DIY Coral Snow. At no other point in the week does my reef look as good as it does on Saturday and Sunday. But, I make sure to note this. Also, it’s not like my setup looks that much worse during the week; the sand may have a light dusting of diatoms and water slightly less clear, but it’s still 95% of the way there.

I guess there’s multiple ways to view this and the subject matter. For me, it’s always been something I want to aspire to. Before I made a name in the hobby I fawned over the many tank of the months on RC, and the amazing tanks that were coming out of Germany.

Even now, when I see something that looks better than my setup it’s lights a fire in me and pushes me on, driving me to research more and step up my game.

Something’s, such as a beautiful model, male or female, cannot be replicated due to genetics and a few other factors. This can lead to phycological issues, many of which we see today. But, reef displays , within reason, can be replicated with hard work and research. That I believe is the difference here. It’s nice to have something to aim for, at least in my humble opinion. And at the end of the day, beauty is beauty, regardless of its origin.

 

[All_talk]

I think your question is to narrow, it can be covered by a more general ask...

Are the Instagram and YouTube cultures bad? Answer: Mostly Yes​

Best things the internet has brought us: 1) email, 2) online shopping, 3) enthusiast based forums.
Worst things the internet has brought us: Socal Media

But then again, I am an old man for whom "social distancing" did not alter my life style.

 

[Badfish405]

100% it does. I feel like it has decreased local reef club popularity as well.

 

[ReefLife_Guy]

Publication bias! Here, it’s confirmation bias. I come across so many posts where someone asks for help, suggestions or advice only to shoot everyone down until they finally get the response they were looking for. No intention of listening to anyone, except those that confirmed their bias. Just come out and say, this is what I’m going to do please agree with me, so not everyone wastes their time trying to help a fellow reefer. Ha

That too lol lots of confirmation bias

 

[ADAM]

No, it depends on who you choose to follow on those platforms.

I and many others I know make a point to post about struggles of pests and other reefing hurdles.

Truthfully I’ve found R2R to be as toxic as any other platform out there.

 

[Reefdiculous22]

Ok, so let me be clear what I'm talking about. I'm not asking or implying that IG and YT are bad for the hobby. I'm specifically thinking about the temptation toward misrepresentation that occurs in the world where picture perfection is the standard. Let's be honest, on IG the goal is to "stop the scroll" and rack up followers which is accomplished by having a tank that is picture perfect. This often leads people to post when the tank is doing well and avoid talking about pitfalls and issues where the tank is far less than perfect. The same can often happen on YouTube where videographers cover their mistakes before the latest video or choose to use quick fixes or even old footage to avoid showing issues. AGAIN, I am not saying this is true for all IG'ers or YouTubers. Some do take the painful step of sharing us their missteps or simply the normal problems of reefing, but I do feel that many times even those moments can get glossed over because frankly, people aren't drawn to look at lackluster images, so for example, someone might be less likely to show off a tank in a video in the middle of the uglies because it just doesn't seem like something people want to see.

My concern is that this ultimately can lead to unrealistic expectations for the average reefer, especially newer reefers who might get into reefing because XYZ YouTuber has such beautiful tank and makes it look "so easy." Reefing is tough, and a lot of times there are stages that don't get shown off but that are natural parts of tank maturation. Other times there may be set backs that could have been avoided, and a reefer may feel alone when going through those issues. What do you guys think? Is this a problem that happens in a culture that emphasizes perfection and gives less voice to struggles?

Where this line of thought leads me is back to the value of experiencing this hobby in community. It's why local clubs are so valuable and why even developing friendships in online communities that go beyond mere surface engagement can be helpful. It's one of the reasons that I think it's important to have threads (LOTS of threads) that talk about the run-of-the-mill issues that people commonly deal with. It's why I'm so glad that we have people here who don't mind answering the same questions over and over...because sometimes...sometimes it's honestly nice to see that the issues we face have been also dealt with by so many people before us.

Just some musings I've been thinking through today. What are your thoughts?

Ok, so let me be clear what I'm talking about. I'm not asking or implying that IG and YT are bad for the hobby. I'm specifically thinking about the temptation toward misrepresentation that occurs in the world where picture perfection is the standard. Let's be honest, on IG the goal is to "stop the scroll" and rack up followers which is accomplished by having a tank that is picture perfect. This often leads people to post when the tank is doing well and avoid talking about pitfalls and issues where the tank is far less than perfect. The same can often happen on YouTube where videographers cover their mistakes before the latest video or choose to use quick fixes or even old footage to avoid showing issues. AGAIN, I am not saying this is true for all IG'ers or YouTubers. Some do take the painful step of sharing us their missteps or simply the normal problems of reefing, but I do feel that many times even those moments can get glossed over because frankly, people aren't drawn to look at lackluster images, so for example, someone might be less likely to show off a tank in a video in the middle of the uglies because it just doesn't seem like something people want to see.

My concern is that this ultimately can lead to unrealistic expectations for the average reefer, especially newer reefers who might get into reefing because XYZ YouTuber has such beautiful tank and makes it look "so easy." Reefing is tough, and a lot of times there are stages that don't get shown off but that are natural parts of tank maturation. Other times there may be set backs that could have been avoided, and a reefer may feel alone when going through those issues. What do you guys think? Is this a problem that happens in a culture that emphasizes perfection and gives less voice to struggles?

Where this line of thought leads me is back to the value of experiencing this hobby in community. It's why local clubs are so valuable and why even developing friendships in online communities that go beyond mere surface engagement can be helpful. It's one of the reasons that I think it's important to have threads (LOTS of threads) that talk about the run-of-the-mill issues that people commonly deal with. It's why I'm so glad that we have people here who don't mind answering the same questions over and over...because sometimes...sometimes it's honestly nice to see that the issues we face have been also dealt with by so many people before us.

Just some musings I've been thinking through today. What are your thoughts?

So I’m a newcomer to the hobby and my tank is only 2 mo old . I watched a ton of YouTube videos, don’t really get on instagram. Yes I thought the same thing, not enough people are posting the bad and only posting the good. I believe that that is not good for the hobby. It’s gets people interested in it yes but then they find out the hardships of it (like myself for example) and realize it’s not all roses. Then you look up ways to try and fix things and it’s all marketing for certain products when there are natural ways to deal with the problem.
Also they never show you a time lapse if they do show how they fixed their problems. It’s always I bought this, with a before pic, then I used this with an after pic. Nothing showing the progress in real time . Anyone can say anything, doesn’t make it plausible. Just my 2 cents on the frustration I’ve experienced so far being a newcomer to the hobby. Happy reefing. Cheers

 

[Jedi1199]

Ok, so let me be clear what I'm talking about. I'm not asking or implying that IG and YT are bad for the hobby. I'm specifically thinking about the temptation toward misrepresentation that occurs in the world where picture perfection is the standard. Let's be honest, on IG the goal is to "stop the scroll" and rack up followers which is accomplished by having a tank that is picture perfect. This often leads people to post when the tank is doing well and avoid talking about pitfalls and issues where the tank is far less than perfect. The same can often happen on YouTube where videographers cover their mistakes before the latest video or choose to use quick fixes or even old footage to avoid showing issues. AGAIN, I am not saying this is true for all IG'ers or YouTubers. Some do take the painful step of sharing us their missteps or simply the normal problems of reefing, but I do feel that many times even those moments can get glossed over because frankly, people aren't drawn to look at lackluster images, so for example, someone might be less likely to show off a tank in a video in the middle of the uglies because it just doesn't seem like something people want to see.

My concern is that this ultimately can lead to unrealistic expectations for the average reefer, especially newer reefers who might get into reefing because XYZ YouTuber has such beautiful tank and makes it look "so easy." Reefing is tough, and a lot of times there are stages that don't get shown off but that are natural parts of tank maturation. Other times there may be set backs that could have been avoided, and a reefer may feel alone when going through those issues. What do you guys think? Is this a problem that happens in a culture that emphasizes perfection and gives less voice to struggles?

Where this line of thought leads me is back to the value of experiencing this hobby in community. It's why local clubs are so valuable and why even developing friendships in online communities that go beyond mere surface engagement can be helpful. It's one of the reasons that I think it's important to have threads (LOTS of threads) that talk about the run-of-the-mill issues that people commonly deal with. It's why I'm so glad that we have people here who don't mind answering the same questions over and over...because sometimes...sometimes it's honestly nice to see that the issues we face have been also dealt with by so many people before us.

Just some musings I've been thinking through today. What are your thoughts?

I totally get what you are saying about IG and YT. While I do not utilize IG, I do use YT and have posted several tank videos there myself. I actually regret not starting that sooner when my tank was completely overrun with GHA. I have a couple photos on my build thread, but as you say, I didn't focus much attention on that phase of my tank build.

My new 135 build has been running for 2 weeks now. I fully intend to update this tank throughout the entire process, show the good AND the bad so people can see a realistic version of what a true reef tank is.

I also, on my build thread, have tried as best as I can to explain everything I have done. Post pictures where they apply, ect ect. This is really for 2 reasons. First I personally want a journal of this build, from conception to end result. Secondly, I want everyone to SEE what my tank is doing, changes, upgrades, downgrades, "The Good The Bad, and the Ugly". If I don't show it all, then I might as well scrap the whole thing and take a trip to Monterey and see their tanks.

 

[WVNed]

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast.

 

[Jedi1199]

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast.

I agree with you on this on a personal level. I have trained in speed reading, and can generally get through a novel in an hour or so.

I also tend to retain more of what I read than what I am told. For example, if I read a list of 30 tasks, I will retain it better than if someone tells me 30 tasks to do.

This works fine for me, but not everyone thinks the same way. Many people just don't learn that way. They need to SEE it, have it explained in order to wrap their mind around a concept.

I feel that YT can be an invaluable tool to people who need to have things drawn out for them in this manner.

It would be awesome to see more "teaching" videos available. I know that my own videos are just "showoff" vids. Nothing at all involving explaining anything about how I arrived at the point where the video was filmed. Perhaps this is a mistake on my own part. Makes me think that future videos of the 135 will include an explanation of the HOW I arrived at the point the video is filmed.

 

[Reefdiculous22]

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast.

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast.

That’s great that you can do that but unfortunately some people are more visual learners and don’t grasp all context in written form. Not poking ya I’m just throwing it out there.

I never use videos for knowledge
The purpose of videos is to get you to watch more videos
Anything useful is dribbled out at a snails pace.
If I want to know something I would love 1 well written paragraph more than a 20 minute video. So I go and look for info in text form. I can read very fast.

 

[Reefdiculous22]

I agree with you on this on a personal level. I have trained in speed reading, and can generally get through a novel in an hour or so.

I also tend to retain more of what I read than what I am told. For example, if I read a list of 30 tasks, I will retain it better than if someone tells me 30 tasks to do.

This works fine for me, but not everyone thinks the same way. Many people just don't learn that way. They need to SEE it, have it explained in order to wrap their mind around a concept.

I feel that YT can be an invaluable tool to people who need to have things drawn out for them in this manner.

It would be awesome to see more "teaching" videos available. I know that my own videos are just "showoff" vids. Nothing at all involving explaining anything about how I arrived at the point where the video was filmed. Perhaps this is a mistake on my own part. Makes me think that future videos of the 135 will include an explanation of the HOW I arrived at the point the video is filmed.

The problem with YouTube is people want to make money. And quick vids of awesome tanks is what people want to see so that’s what YouTubers post. It’s economics. The other problem isn’t really YouTube at all but people wanting things right here right now so they don’t really care how you got there. They just want to know that can have it. People like myself who really is interested in the hobby can’t get real videos and real results because of this .

 

[Jedi1199]

That’s great that you can do that but unfortunately some people are more visual learners and don’t grasp all context in written form. Not poking ya I’m just throwing it out there.

Exactly what I was pointing out in my last post.

 

[Kfactor]

i find ppl have to stop going by what other ppl have and just enjoy the hobby for what it is .

 

[Jedi1199]

The problem with YouTube is people want to make money. And quick vids of awesome tanks is what people want to see so that’s what YouTubers post. It’s economics. The other problem isn’t really YouTube at all but people wanting things right here right now so they don’t really care how you got there. They just want to know that can have it. People like myself who really is interested in the hobby can’t get real videos and real results because of this .

And this is unfortunately part of the issue we are discussing.

I personally do not care if I ever see a dime from my videos. I post them to document my tank progress and also show my tank off to friends and co-workers and such who likely will never be able to visit my home.