Are there any clean up crew vendors we trust enough not to quarantine?

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CMO

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Seaside in Huntington Beach. I have been buying all my livestock, cuc, fish and most corals from them for the last 30+ years and have not quarantined anything in that time and have not had any disease to deal with. Just added some snail and corals last week as my triggers over the last year had brought there numbers down and got home and just floated the cuc till the lights went off then just dumped them in.
Hmm. I see diseased fish, bubble algae, aiptasia, vermetids etc nearly every time I go to that shop. They do claim to keep their inverts on a separate system so that's good at least. I will actually buy inverts from them but scrape and scrub them real good.
 

HB AL

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Hmm. I see diseased fish, bubble algae, aiptasia, vermetids etc nearly every time I go to that shop. They do claim to keep their inverts on a separate system so that's good at least. I will actually buy inverts from them but scrape and scrub them real good.
I guess I don’t really analyze those things so closely but the same can be said for any store you visit in person, especially some of the others around here where you don’t even need to look for the pests as they outnumber the livestock in some instances! It could be that I don’t worry about bubble algae and aiptasia as I have some In my tank and I don’t really look at them as a cause of concern as they ebb and flow and don’t really bug any of my tank inhabitants. The fish I get from them are always strong and live without issues probably the reason I don’t really buy a fish too often. I did add a Blueline trigger( first fish in a year) a couple months ago from them, then just dropped and plop. After 30+ years of doing this saltwater tank thingy I’ve become pretty laid back when dealing with the little things, but I understand the concerns of others trying to keep what some consider pests outta there tanks and doing what they can to keeping fish disease out of there tanks, especially the people that have no choice but to buy livestock from online vendors sight unseen. Here’s a couple pics of my setup so you can see how well my ecosystem thrives even with a no quarantine protocol for anything, and having aiptasia and bubble algae in there somewhere not visible without getting some really close up shots. I don’t think finding a place with no type of pests is really not possible as even a microscopic pest not visual to the naked eye is probably gonna get by one way or another.

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Brew12

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Most of the items supplied by Reef Cleaners are collected from the ocean and held in fishless storage tanks. Absolutely no guarantee that they come in parasite free as they don't hold them for a minimum amount of time.

From the website (by the way, I think John is fantastic and he is about the only person I buy CuC from so I'm not posting this as a negative.)
"We are aware of the value you place on sustainable collection practices. We are firmly committed to only using collection methods that do not impact the environment. We manage all of the fishing grounds we collect from, only applying pressure to the fishery at times and in locations when it is prudent to do so. We impose upon ourselves a bag limit that is stricter than those imposed by Fish and Wildlife on nearly every species we collect. Additionally, we will never knowingly purchase livestock from any collector that uses trawls, dredges, or any other apparatus that causes damage the sea floor or the substrate. "
 
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gobble

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John responded to me that they come from the ocean and sit in fishless holding tanks for 2 weeks. So not possible to just dump them in a known clean tank.

Has anyone seen a study of how attached any tomonts are to a surface? Would a scrub and high flow wash remove them? Or is that playing with fire.
 

CMO

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I guess I don’t really analyze those things so closely but the same can be said for any store you visit in person, especially some of the others around here where you don’t even need to look for the pests as they outnumber the livestock in some instances! It could be that I don’t worry about bubble algae and aiptasia as I have some In my tank and I don’t really look at them as a cause of concern as they ebb and flow and don’t really bug any of my tank inhabitants. The fish I get from them are always strong and live without issues probably the reason I don’t really buy a fish too often. I did add a Blueline trigger( first fish in a year) a couple months ago from them, then just dropped and plop. After 30+ years of doing this saltwater tank thingy I’ve become pretty laid back when dealing with the little things, but I understand the concerns of others trying to keep what some consider pests outta there tanks and doing what they can to keeping fish disease out of there tanks, especially the people that have no choice but to buy livestock from online vendors sight unseen. Here’s a couple pics of my setup so you can see how well my ecosystem thrives even with a no quarantine protocol for anything, and having aiptasia and bubble algae in there somewhere not visible without getting some really close up shots. I don’t think finding a place with no type of pests is really not possible as even a microscopic pest not visual to the naked eye is probably gonna get by one way or another.

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No doubt you can have a thriving reef with these "pests". But, it is possible to prevent them and I'd rather not as things like bryopsis can be a real pain even with floconazole treatments. The point of my posts here are that people's definition of what is considered a "pest" is a bit different and to make blanket statements (this is not directed at you) that everything has been "fine" from a particular vendor without mention of what you consider to be a problem pest is unfair. As pointed out, many of the people that claim to have no issue do in fact have many of the "pests" I mention in their tanks that could have come from these "clean" CUC vendors. There's simply more to invert QT than fish diseases is all I wanted to point out.
 

HB AL

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Ya I get it but without a microscope you really can’t be sure your not introducing something that some consider a pest.
 

HB AL

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I have nothing better to do right now so since I’m only a couple miles from Seaside I’m gonna go down right now and see if I can spot some infestations of these pests in person and sick fish you spotted. I was just there yesterday to get some food and browsed some corals and didn’t see any but was not looking for them. Problem is I will probably walk out with a frag or 2 of some Acro I don’t need;)
 
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MnFish1

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Those are easy to see problems. Ich on the otherhand is not.
Really? I never would have thought of doing this - I buy all my CUC from a place that (I believed) 1) - does not house there stuff with fish and 2) wouldn't have any natural contaminants and I have bought like 200 of those tiny snails at a time - I cant imagine washing each one..... Maybe I should
 
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gobble

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If an ich tomont is on a snail shell when it’s pulled from the ocean is keeping it in a fish free tank for 2 weeks relevant?

I find the microscope comment interesting. Is that really an option for determining if the CUC is clean?
 

MnFish1

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If an ich tomont is on a snail shell when it’s pulled from the ocean is keeping it in a fish free tank for 2 weeks relevant?

I find the microscope comment interesting. Is that really an option for determining if the CUC is clean?
No - is that what most companies do - for example - to get snails?
 

MnFish1

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This looks like bryopsis to me from the photo. But if not, my bad.

Bryopsis.jpg
no its not - it was on a rock about 20 years ago - and spread when I took it out to try to take it off - otherwise it was a hard 'ball' of macro algae that never grew - I just didnt have much coral - and it grew in certain places - its almost gone now but it wasnt bryopsis
 

CMO

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If an ich tomont is on a snail shell when it’s pulled from the ocean is keeping it in a fish free tank for 2 weeks relevant?

I find the microscope comment interesting. Is that really an option for determining if the CUC is clean?
I mostly use the scope to inspect coral frags for pests which works very well and you definitely can see pests and eggs under it. For CUC I mostly use the scope to identify algae hairs on the shells that you can't see to the naked eye and then remove them with scraping and peroxide. There's a learning curve with the scope though since a lot of things that might look like pests aren't. The photo I posted above is a normal Trochus snail foot by my understanding but those sure look suspicious.
 

MnFish1

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If an ich tomont is on a snail shell when it’s pulled from the ocean is keeping it in a fish free tank for 2 weeks relevant?
No - in fact I just contacted the person I got all mine from to see how they make sure there is no 'problem'
 

AlgaeBarn

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I did talk with Algae Barn and got comfortable buying from them would be ok, but they don’t sell full packages and their prices are way out of line compared to the other vendors.

Are snails wild caught or bred in captivity?
Our inverts are kept fallow and they are all captive bred from ORA. We hope to increase the supply of our inverts to be able to drop the price further (I'm under the impression we have the lowest free shipping price for inverts). Our peppermints, trochus, tuxedo urchins are actually pretty close to wildcaught price.

We would love to setup a 76 day system for inverts, but the supply for most of the captive bred inverts is pretty limited (we are in-works on a fix for this), and I'd be curious if people would actually want to pay for it.
 

neilp2006

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That i'm not sure. I can send John an email and find out, i'll also tag them in this thread to see if they can clarify @reefcleaners
I emailed them this question last year when I started up and was told they are wild caught. Some breeding in house because snails be doing dirty snail things, but they can’t confirm an individual snail or hermit has been in fallow condition for >76 days. Most likely 3-4 weeks.

I still quarantine my reef cleaners orders. I’m about to get my second big batch and put it in QT. No hermits this time.

Re: algaebarn. I had some ‘clean’ chaeto come in with a couple small snail shells on it. Because of that, I would QT anything from them also.
 

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