Are there any clean up crew vendors we trust enough not to quarantine?

neilp2006

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Another member here called Liveaquaria and they confirmed they don't keep fish with their inverts either. So far so good from them with the CUC I ordered.
This only matters if those snails have been sitting fallow for >76 days since collection. I doubt they batch house and keep records of who has been there however long for that duration. If they’ve only been at LA fur 3 weeks before you bought them, they are still a risk

QT EVERYTHING wet, unless it’s in the exclusion list detailed by humblefish
 
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HB AL

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My fish are immune to ich and velvet so the last thing I worry about is ich or velvet being introduced from a cuc. I think I would go crazy if I had to worry about those things coming in from a cuc. I think some people here are being overly paranoid based on what they read on the internet from people’s opinions. You know the saying if you read it on the net it must be true.
 

CMO

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My fish are immune to ich and velvet so the last thing I worry about is ich or velvet being introduced from a cuc. I think I would go crazy if I had to worry about those things coming in from a cuc. I think some people here are being overly paranoid based on what they read on the internet from people’s opinions. You know the saying if you read it on the net it must be true.
I'm with you there on the going crazy part from all the QT's needed to run a clean tank. By the time you set up a fish QT, coral QT, invert QT and display the "hobby" now become a job. QT should be done by the professionals prior to selling to hobbyists IMO.
 
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neilp2006

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My fish are immune to ich and velvet so the last thing I worry about is ich or velvet being introduced from a cuc. I think I would go crazy if I had to worry about those things coming in from a cuc. I think some people here are being overly paranoid based on what they read on the internet from people’s opinions. You know the saying if you read it on the net it must be true.
How do you know they are immune?

Have you exposed them to test?
 

HB AL

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Yup, when I started my current tank 4 years ago they all had ich and possibly velvet so I do what I always do and gave them prestine water and fed them a lot of quality foods and within a month they were all clear and every fish I’ve added since then I just drop and plop, some get a couple spots but all clear up within a couple weeks at most and go on to have good lives. So I’m sure there are parasites in my tank but my fish never show any signs of them.
 

MnFish1

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How do you know they are immune?

Have you exposed them to test?
The risk of CI or velvet etc coming in on a snail is extremely small. Though its impossible for reef cleaners (I emailed them as well) - they do not recommend qT in their acclimation procedures. If you think about the life cycle for these parasites - it is as close to 0 as you can imagine.
 

Humblefish

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My fish are immune to ich and velvet so the last thing I worry about is ich or velvet being introduced from a cuc. I think I would go crazy if I had to worry about those things coming in from a cuc. I think some people here are being overly paranoid based on what they read on the internet from people’s opinions. You know the saying if you read it on the net it must be true.
You must never buy new fish. Or if you do, how do you instantly immunize them the moment they enter your tank?
 

neilp2006

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The risk of CI or velvet etc coming in on a snail is extremely small. Though its impossible for reef cleaners (I emailed them as well) - they do not recommend qT in their acclimation procedures. If you think about the life cycle for these parasites - it is as close to 0 as you can imagine.
I know enough about the life cycle to know that what you just posted is wrong.

I’m a microbiologist and parasitologist and the fact tomonts can encyst on any hard surface, makes me 100% positive that QTing snails etc that are wild caught is required.

I don’t understand your point about Reefcleaners not recommending QT? How does the snail know it’s going into a QT vs a DT? As long as you follow the acclimation protocol reefcleaners states -essentially, don’t, which is what they recommend- it doesnt matter what tank they go in. What if I call my QT a ‘prophylactic DT’? Is that ok?
 

Humblefish

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The risk of CI or velvet etc coming in on a snail is extremely small. Though its impossible for reef cleaners (I emailed them as well) - they do not recommend qT in their acclimation procedures. If you think about the life cycle for these parasites - it is as close to 0 as you can imagine.
I disagree. Parasite protomonts are motile, snails/hermits have hard shells. What prevents a protomont from crawling upon and encysting to a shell it encounters? I can't tell you how many, "I've got velvet" threads can be traced back to recently added CUC.
 
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MnFish1

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I disagree. Parasite protomonts are motile, snails/hermits have hard shells. What prevents a protomont from crawling upon and encysting to a shell it encounters? I can't tell you how many, "I've got velvet" threads can be traced back to recently added CUC.
Im a microbiologist as well. The point is - as I said already - nothing 'prevents it' it is just an extremely small chance. I never said one shouldn't QT - I said the risk is extremely small. If people want to leave their snails in a tank for 76 days - thats fine. But we both know - that the longest any CI has survived is 72 days (76 is an insurance policy) - and that most infectious particles are released in < 4 weeks - so there's that. Then there is the fact that most particles that fall from the fish do so at night - when the fish are in their sleeping area - and when they hatch - they are likely to reinfect. We also know that only 5-10% of infectious particles ever find a host (in an experimental situation)... So - taking all of these things into account - and where the snails are harvested from - etc - the likelihood is very very small (which is what I said) - not impossible - so where is the disagreement?
 

MnFish1

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I know enough about the life cycle to know that what you just posted is wrong.

I’m a microbiologist and parasitologist and the fact tomonts can encyst on any hard surface, makes me 100% positive that QTing snails etc that are wild caught is required.

I don’t understand your point about Reefcleaners not recommending QT? How does the snail know it’s going into a QT vs a DT? As long as you follow the acclimation protocol reefcleaners states -essentially, don’t, which is what they recommend- it doesnt matter what tank they go in. What if I call my QT a ‘prophylactic DT’? Is that ok?
Settle down - lol I'm a microbiologist as well - and I never told you what to do or not to do. I also said its not impossible to get a disease from a snail, etc - I just said its extremely unlikely - based on the life cycle - see my other post - and tear that one apart if you like lol:)....
 

Humblefish

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Im a microbiologist as well. The point is - as I said already - nothing 'prevents it' it is just an extremely small chance. I never said one shouldn't QT - I said the risk is extremely small. If people want to leave their snails in a tank for 76 days - thats fine. But we both know - that the longest any CI has survived is 72 days (76 is an insurance policy) - and that most infectious particles are released in < 4 weeks - so there's that. Then there is the fact that most particles that fall from the fish do so at night - when they are in their sleeping area - and when they hatch - they are likely to reinfect. We also know that only 5-10% of infectious particles ever find a host (in an experimental situation)... So - taking all of these things into account - and where the snails are harvested from - etc - the likelihood is very very small (which is what I said) - not impossible
Practically speaking, 6 weeks fallow should be sufficient for corals/inverts. That protects against everything except that one oddball strain of Ich. Which that study was conducted at 68F in a sterile flask with the aid of antibiotics. Not quite "reef conditions". One of the authors told me he would expect bacteria to gnaw/damage any unhatched tomonts after a month or so. Which probably explains why these mature tanks (like Paul's) have less disease problems - they're loaded with bacteria which feed on parasite tomonts. Newbie tanks seem to have the most disease problems for the opposite reason.

Oh, and I'm not a microbiologist or parasitologist or even a proper fish doctor. I just like to play one on the Internet. :D
 

MnFish1

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Practically speaking, 6 weeks fallow should be sufficient for corals/inverts. That protects against everything except that one oddball strain of Ich. Which that study was conducted at 68F in a sterile flask with the aid of antibiotics. Not quite "reef conditions". One of the authors told me he would expect bacteria to gnaw/damage any unhatched tomonts after a month or so. Which probably explains why these mature tanks (like Paul's) have less disease problems - they're loaded with bacteria which feed on parasite tomonts. Newbie tanks seem to have the most disease problems for the opposite reason.

Oh, and I'm not a microbiologist or parasitologist or even a proper fish doctor. I just like to play one on the Internet. :D
LOL - I was just pointing out - we don't disagree. You're far more expert at much of it than I
 
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drawman

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I think you're right @MnFish1 if the clean up crew is directly harvested from the ocean and placed only in fishless systems throughout the distribution chain that chance is hopefully pretty low. Where people will get burned is what happens along the way if these inverts are held in tanks with or near sick fish. Undoubtedly, parasites are more concentrated in these systems compared to the ocean raising the odds (even if still low).
 

code4

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I'm just a crazy man obsessed with fish diseases. ;)
And who also likes to practice without a license! I think you are a fish doctor by the way. I know of a crackerjacks box that once gave me a pearl ring. I am sure we can find a diploma for you, but I get the candy coated peanuts.
 

Squidward

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My fish are immune to ich and velvet so the last thing I worry about is ich or velvet being introduced from a cuc. I think I would go crazy if I had to worry about those things coming in from a cuc. I think some people here are being overly paranoid based on what they read on the internet from people’s opinions. You know the saying if you read it on the net it must be true.
So you saying they are immune, it must be true...
 

Bouncingsoul39

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I’m also a micro biologist and snail shell scrubbing expert. Make sure to scrub every snail and hermit crab shell individually for a minimum of two minutes with a 1:3 part solution of water and Mountain Dew. Once you’re positive all encapsulated ichs and velvets are gone and the snail is clearly doing the Dew and feeling frisky, then you can place the snail in the DT after one final microscope check for snail herpes.
 
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