Are vendors responsible for live delivery of Coral????

[Reefer1978]

Then you should re-think making sushi from there.

--Gray

Taadaa exactly the point of this thread.

 

[gray808]

Taadaa exactly the point of this thread.

<scratches head>

The point is don't go to places that can't keep things cold?

--Gray

 

[Rich Klein]

Lots of vendors these days started adding "Not responsible for shipping delays" in their policies, to the point that even folks on the forum are doing it. Did anyone actually check with an attorney if it's legal? A sale is an exchange of money for goods, in our case specifically for a live animal. If the animal is delivered dead, seller didn't meet their contract obligation. So what does the community think? What do vendors think? (I hope you will participate).

I've had 2 delayed shipments that killed the frags during the COVID shipping crunch. Both vendors gave me 100% credit and covered the shipping.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

FedEx has dedicated fleet of planes that don't carry passengers, so does UPS as far as I know. So I don't believe this applied.

Both services and USPS buy freight on passenger airlines especially in areas that FedEx and UPS do not have their own air service. Most airfreight operations have to pass items to passenger flights for completing service to the many airports around the globe. FedEx and UPS only service specific hubs around the world with their aircraft and then pass on to passenger flights or ground transportation. I used to buy in LC quantities (2000lbs) and could only get delivery at hubs. Smaller orders could land anywhere passenger service was provided. FedEx and UPS are 3 to 4 times more expensive than passenger cargo like Delta for example. It is an economy of scale.

 

[Kryptonian]

Received a delivery from Motor City two days ago and received a Motor City acro and a Walt Disney both with RTN. They were basically completely bleached within 4 hours. I live in Texas and there’s a 110 heat index outside. Package was received immediately and didn’t sit on doorstep for more than a minute. They immediately refunded... they do their VERY best to give you a healthy coral but outside factors exist. Living in Texas with crazy heat, I’m going to do my part and not order anything else until September when temperatures start to drop. I hugely appreciate their customer service but at the same time realize that it’s not the time to have a package reliant on stable temps in transit.

FedEx is usually late in my area so I convey that info to sellers I buy from. Those that you buy from aren’t huge corporations, this is reefing and a very specific market with small businesses. My opinion is that they do their best but you as a buyer need to understand external circumstances.

 

[Reeflover21526]

Vendors can get insurance to cover shipping cost and livestock IF there is a delay. We have had it with UPS for years via UPS Capital.

That being said, with the excuse of the virus they are not covering any losses at this time. All carriers have suspended any delivery time guarantees. In reality, we have had very few packages delayed and continue to honor replacement or refund of any losses despite no insurance coverage at this time.

So, in normal non-virus times, since insurance is available to vendors to cover any losses (including due to weather delays) there is no reason not to honor live arrival guarantees due to carrier errors or delays.

Our policy from our site:
Our Guarantee Policy

We offer a 100% worry-free live arrival guarantee

Shipping

We ship with UPS which has been a very reliable company for us for many years but sometimes problems do occur so to provide added “peace of mind” for our customers we have decided to utilize the UPS Capital insurance program that protects your package from any mishandling or weather delays from the moment it leaves our facility until the arrival at your location.

+1

 

[fishnovice33]

In my opinion, if seller/business is advertising or offering something online that they can get to you in proper condition/alive the duty falls on the business. If your abilities cannot provide what you’re selling based on a third party you probably shouldn’t be selling it.

With that said a fully detailed disclaimer provides this. The problem is, a lot of it isn’t fully detailed, extremely general or easy to understand or read. And the bigger problem is, that’s on purpose. Like fine print.

I mean who is going to post in big bold letters, “btw this item usually dies 40% of the time we ship it and we do not offer any refund or consolation when this happens, buyer beware!”. If you can’t ship something in the summer to Texas, then don’t. There is no need to ship it, have it die, then tell the buyer something like sorry you should’ve known it’d die! Yea they should have, but the company shouldn’t be profiting from something they know won’t work out.

Seems companies want the buyer to take all the risk without transparency and maybe even worse, without the actual ability to properly package an item to arrive.

COVID does not slow premium services. I have ordered many items with overnight or 2 days and not one of them has ever even delayed. These services should always be offered for extra cost as well as full disclaimer.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

There seems to be a level of entitlement in many of these posts by the buyers that must be discouraging for small business owners. The vast majority of sellers are trying to survive against all odds and develop long term customer relationships that are mutually beneficial. Without some give and take on both sides the hobby dies! The buyer and the seller both have responsibilities for a successful outcome. It seems like these threads devolve into bashing of the sellers or unreasonable expectations of perfection in an imperfect world. Until you have had some experience on both sides it might be best to withhold judgement.

 

[Reefer1978]

There seems to be a level of entitlement in many of these posts by the buyers that must be discouraging for small business owners. The vast majority of sellers are trying to survive against all odds and develop long term customer relationships that are mutually beneficial. Without some give and take on both sides the hobby dies! The buyer and the seller both have responsibilities for a successful outcome. It seems like these threads devolve into bashing of the sellers or unreasonable expectations of perfection in an imperfect world. Until you have had some experience on both sides it might be best to withhold judgement.

That is a fair argument. But, you could also argue that some stores have unreasonable expectations that everything continues as it was before COVID, and they are simply not accountable to what's going on in the world today.

Buyers - ask every single question possible before you make a decision to buy form a vendor.

Sellers - instead of just saying "Not responsible for carrier delays" make an effort to explain exactly what will happen. And if your policies start costing you customers, adjust.

 

[Reefer1978]

I've had 2 delayed shipments that killed the frags during the COVID shipping crunch. Both vendors gave me 100% credit and covered the shipping.

That's how it should be handled, in my opinion.

Received a delivery from Motor City two days ago and received a Motor City acro and a Walt Disney both with RTN. They were basically completely bleached within 4 hours. I live in Texas and there’s a 110 heat index outside. Package was received immediately and didn’t sit on doorstep for more than a minute. They immediately refunded... they do their VERY best to give you a healthy coral but outside factors exist. Living in Texas with crazy heat, I’m going to do my part and not order anything else until September when temperatures start to drop. I hugely appreciate their customer service but at the same time realize that it’s not the time to have a package reliant on stable temps in transit.

FedEx is usually late in my area so I convey that info to sellers I buy from. Those that you buy from aren’t huge corporations, this is reefing and a very specific market with small businesses. My opinion is that they do their best but you as a buyer need to understand external circumstances.

I shipped a frag to someone very close to you, also with 109 for the high the day of delivery. Was delivered a little after 11 am, temperature was good, and everything made it. I was very worried about that shipment.

 

[SPitts6654]

Sellers should be responsible. Most sell online because it drives higher margins for their already ridiculous prices. Why should they profit from the buyers loss? At a minimum they should offer a credit, they may just break even on the sale, but the no one loses in the end. If it’s happening so often that they are losing money, they need to re-evaluate their shipping methods andcarriers.

If they aren’t going to guarantee it, don’t buy from them, unless they reflect the lack of guarantee in the price.

 

[SPitts6654]

There seems to be a level of entitlement in many of these posts by the buyers that must be discouraging for small business owners. The vast majority of sellers are trying to survive against all odds and develop long term customer relationships that are mutually beneficial. Without some give and take on both sides the hobby dies! The buyer and the seller both have responsibilities for a successful outcome. It seems like these threads devolve into bashing of the sellers or unreasonable expectations of perfection in an imperfect world. Until you have had some experience on both sides it might be best to withhold judgement.

Yes, we are entitled to receive what we paid for.

 

[mindme]

If they don't guarantee delivery then I don't buy. Pretty simple for me. I have no way of knowing if they just put bad stuff in to start with. Most likely they didn't, but how am I suppose to know?

I recently did an online order. They guaranteed, I received everything alive and well and the items I ordered only spent about 14 hours in the mail system. This was a cross country from Cali to Florida order. They even had me on a delivery window that was very early in the morning.

I think many businesses use things that happen as an excuse. When I lived in Arizona, my wife worked for a small little shop. They increased the states minimum wage, and they used it as an excuse to increase the price of their services. The logical thought is - well they increased labor costs, so makes sense. And that's why everyone accepted the new prices. However, since I knew how much volume they did + how much extra they were charging, they increased the prices enough to cover the increased labor costs 5 times over.

They used it as an excuse to increase their own profits. I'm sure they weren't alone.

ETA: The only time I've gotten anything that was DOA were pods from algae barn. They sent twice as many the next time and they lived.

 

[tehmadreefer]

Considering most banks/credit card companies, etc no longer allow disputes pertaining to animals. Not much one can do besides go after the shipping company, and good luck with that!

 

[Pistondog]

Lots of vendors these days started adding "Not responsible for shipping delays" in their policies, to the point that even folks on the forum are doing it. Did anyone actually check with an attorney if it's legal? A sale is an exchange of money for goods, in our case specifically for a live animal. If the animal is delivered dead, seller didn't meet their contract obligation. So what does the community think? What do vendors think? (I hope you will participate).

None of the above.
Vendors are responsible, if the delivery is standard to expectations.
I had an ocellaris get lost around the holidays and delivered as bouillabaise. (Note to self, don't ship livestock around the holidays)
Vendor nicely replaced fish, I repaid shipping.