At what point is acrylic 'better' than glass?

h2so4hurts

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
361
Reaction score
427
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have acrylic tanks and will never go back to glass. Dropped an 80lb rock scaping my tank. What would have been 500gallons on the floor with glass is a dime sized scratch on Acrylic. Sure, they scratch. Use an algae free scraper with acrylic safe material, scrub near your sand bed last. You can buff out any external scratches with Novus 2/3. You can never buff a glass tank.

The number of friends I have that have bought used glass tanks with leaking seams is enough to make me avoid glass forever. I'd rather have to buff a free scratches than worry about a seam blowing out because the silcone settled differently after a move... To each their own though.
 

ElussssvReefSD

Be Nice to Coral-Nippers!
View Badges
Joined
Jun 2, 2019
Messages
329
Reaction score
455
Location
Tampa
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
All arguments here have validity to them, both pros and cons. So instead, let's talk remedy. If you go with acrylic and get a scratch there is no need for a hours long work out to buff it out. Just work smarter, not harder.;) Magnetic scraper, melamine foam (Magic Eraser), a little bit of velcro strips to hold in place, a routed out block and a drill. Quick and easy.

Edit, should have added that there are products on the market that you could put in place of the melamine foam for buffing out larger scratches. You can do it without emptying the tank.


That is an absolutely FANTASTIC idea... TOTALLY "borrowing" LoL
 

pdxmonkeyboy

Sticks!! Give me the sticks!
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
2,677
Reaction score
4,609
Location
Hockinson, WA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think the main reason you don't see mass produced acrylic tanks is that it takes a pretty decent level of skill to complete a nice acrylic tank. And if you screw up, which as a fairly experienced tank builder I can say is pretty easy to do, you just wasted a bunch of expensive material. A trained monkey could build a glass tank. You think all those glass tanks you see in petco have been assembled by people with years of experience? Not super likely.
 

Joe Glass Cages

Passionate Glass Cages’s Team Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
5,654
Location
Dickson, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks! If you’re willing to share, how is the demand between the two? Do you see a growing demand for acrylic or has the ratio stayed steady between the two?
Great question. I am only speak for the work we do. about 30% to 35% off the roughly 100 to 150 tanks Glass Cages builds monthly are Acrylic. Behind those numbers..... about half of the Acrylics we build are for industrial use. Interesting. Thanks for asking.
 

IKD

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
3,127
Reaction score
4,513
Location
Orlando Area
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Great question. I am only speak for the work we do. about 30% to 35% off the roughly 100 to 150 tanks Glass Cages builds monthly are Acrylic. Behind those numbers..... about half of the Acrylics we build are for industrial use. Interesting. Thanks for asking.
Thanks for sharing!!
 

Brian_68

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
707
Reaction score
728
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just look at all the used acrylic tanks that need buffed. Sure you can keep them mostly scratch free if you really want to deal with the hassle and time and be ready to buff as needed. My glass tank is 20 plus years old and only a couple scratches. Can only imagine what the tank would look like if it was acrylic. No way you are going to get coralline algae off it year after year and not scratch acrylic unless you want to clean practically daily which I do not.
 

albano

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 26, 2018
Messages
2,619
Reaction score
14,106
Location
Westchester & Dutchess cty NY
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It seems that there are mostly 2 types of people on these glass vs. acrylic threads... Those that love acrylic and say that they'll never go BACK to glass... and then the people that have HEARD how easy acrylic scratches and they'll never buy/try acrylic!
Most acrylic 'lovers' have actual experience/knowledge about both types of tanks, and the choice to remain with acrylic is easy.
 

Joe Glass Cages

Passionate Glass Cages’s Team Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
5,654
Location
Dickson, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I think the main reason you don't see mass produced acrylic tanks is that it takes a pretty decent level of skill to complete a nice acrylic tank. And if you screw up, which as a fairly experienced tank builder I can say is pretty easy to do, you just wasted a bunch of expensive material. A trained monkey could build a glass tank. You think all those glass tanks you see in petco have been assembled by people with years of experience? Not super likely.
a lot of truth there....
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Great question. I am only speak for the work we do. about 30% to 35% off the roughly 100 to 150 tanks Glass Cages builds monthly are Acrylic. Behind those numbers..... about half of the Acrylics we build are for industrial use. Interesting. Thanks for asking.
Hi Joe - well I will be getting quotations from you soon, so we will see what cost the acrylic comes in at. ;)
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Well, I do appreciate everyone's input. Frankly for medium-sized home aquariums... say <400 gal, I really can't see any great benefit in acrylic vs low iron glass. However, as costs are not absurd in those size ranges, I also don't see any big argument against acrylic either. I would go with glass because the top can be rimless (with euro bracing), construction has likely a lot less to go wrong, and scratching is really a non-issue except for extreme events. Glass tanks are less likely to have catastrophic failure at their joints than acrylic, because "welds" can be poorly executed. However, if one moves around a lot, the lightweight acrylic tank will be much appreciated! So I think one can choose glass or acrylic to suit their specific needs. For my 1600 gal island aquarium, extra costs for acrylic are significant. And, keeping very large and deep panels clean week in, week out, and the need to buff out micro-scratching, makes me inclined to believe that the acrylic tank will be a lot of work. Also, at 4 ft deep, please explain how I will buff out scratches below the 2 ft depth? For the glass aquarium, I can rest assured that with a little care, I will never have to repair panels at a 3 to 4 ft depth!

Frankly, my biggest concern with glass is that I can only buy low iron glass up to 3/4" unless I buy and ship from China :(. The US seems to have abandoned 1" glass :(:(. This means that structurally, to use 3/4" glass, I need double euro-bracing top and bottom and of course if the silicone seal breaks between the bracing and panel (silicone peel strength is only ~ 40 psi), the dynamic stress on that panel could cause a problem ( the deflection on the panel from full euro and cross bracing to zero bracing would shift 2" - not good) . My bottom line is that if I could buy Starphire glass at 1", I see no value in acrylic simply because I won't be moving this tank, and what they do with it when I'm 6ft under is not my concern.
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
To sum up what I can see, acrylic has the benefit of 1) easier to move; 2) children can bounce large marbles of the panels, 3) if welded properly, the seams will out-live silicone, and 4) available in any thickness one needs. The benefit of glass is 1) easier cleaning, 2) no buffing required, 3) simpler construction skill set, 4) lower levels of bracing required, and 5) 1/2 to 1/3 the cost for medium to monster home aquariums. For my 1600 gal aquarium, all 5 of the glass benefits seem to apply and maybe only 3 & 4 of the acrylic benefits apply. The most important to me is that I don't want to spend my retirement years struggling with cleaning and buffing - I want to spend it enjoying my hobby.

I still welcome arguments against my conclusions. And again, I'm looking at a built in place 10ft x 6ft x 4ft tank only. Any 1000+ gal monster tank owners have an opinion?
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It seems that there are mostly 2 types of people on these glass vs. acrylic threads... Those that love acrylic and say that they'll never go BACK to glass... and then the people that have HEARD how easy acrylic scratches and they'll never buy/try acrylic!
Most acrylic 'lovers' have actual experience/knowledge about both types of tanks, and the choice to remain with acrylic is easy.
Well - what are the reasons for loving acrylic other than lower weight? Acrylic may have better clarity for the same thickness, but because acrylic tanks need to be 50 to 100% thicker, that clarity advantage vanishes against low iron glass. My thread above lists more advantages for glass than for acrylic - I welcome to have what I've missed called out!
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just curious, but with the benefits of acrylic we hear about (price, weight, strength, etc.), why don’t the major brands (Red Sea, Waterbox, Planet Aquarium, Glass Cages, etc.) make acrylic tanks instead of glass? It would be much cheaper to ship lighter material. Seems like there some deterrent for them to be mass produced.
just a quick note that acrylic is not stronger than glass wrt allowable stresses - its only impact strength where it has a big advantage - ie children throwing things at it.
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is an absolutely FANTASTIC idea... TOTALLY "borrowing" LoL
I watched that video. Sure, if you own an acrylic tank and are desperate to get rid of scratches - great solution. However, I don't want to be doing that on a monster aquarium on a regular basis - looks like a PITA to me.
 

Reefer Reboot

F.V.P.!
View Badges
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,598
Reaction score
3,735
Location
Irvine, Ca.
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
For the sake of clarification let me say that I made this device in the video after going through back to back shoulder surgeries. It actually made it much easier to remove the heavy algae build up that had occurred while I was unable to do much. Now I don't have a 1600 gallon tank, mine is only around 150 gallons, but it sure makes quick work of it if I let it go for too long. It also works at any depth!:) So, to each their own, but I'll stick with acrylic.
 

DJKNOX

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 6, 2020
Messages
95
Reaction score
42
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
For the sake of clarification let me say that I made this device in the video after going through back to back shoulder surgeries. It actually made it much easier to remove the heavy algae build up that had occurred while I was unable to do much. Now I don't have a 1600 gallon tank, mine is only around 150 gallons, but it sure makes quick work of it if I let it go for too long. It also works at any depth!:) So, to each their own, but I'll stick with acrylic.
Thanks Reefer Reboot for that feedback. I hope those shoulders are doing ok. I've had knee and elbow surgeries with mixed results - the knee is good but the elbow is not great. I guess there really is two separate issues that are obviously related. One issue is removing algae while the other is removing scratches. Both glass and acrylic will have algae growth that needs to be cleaned. The issue is whether accumulative cleaning leads to the 2nd issue, which is scratching. I think the general conclusion is that keeping acrylic panes clean from algae leads to accumulative micro-scratching, which then leads to the need to buff. I fully concede that there are ways to accomplish such buffing. The personal matter I raise is the size and type of aquarium I am considering to build.

Let's take your 150 gallon aquarium as a benchmark. I once had a 180 gal reef aquarium and so I can relate. Your tank is likely 6ftx2ftx20in. And you likely have the rear set up against a wall. So your view panes are 1x6x1.67 + 2x2x1.67 = 17 ft2. my monster aquarium will be an island type with 360 degree viewing. It is 130"x72"x48". The viewing panes are 2x130x48 + 2x72x48 = 135 ft2. That is like having EIGHT of your aquariums. I, like you, will take care of my own aquarium - no service team calling a southern California address. So I really need all you acrylic advocates out there to give me an objective evaluation of my acrylic vs glass options. Do you really think it would be practical to not only algae clean but periodically buff out 135 ft2 of acrylic view panes? Most enthusiasts would love to have a large aquarium, but would you want to keep the acrylic clean and buffed? It would seem to me that the glass will be a lot less work. I must admit that aquariums can be a labour of love, but I really would prefer to spend the time on the ecosystem and its inhabitants and not panel buffing through several grit stages. This is a retirement project and so a decade or two down the road, cleaning will become a big physical challenge to me as well.

I'm not necessarily advocating for glass over acrylic for your 150 gal aquarium, I'm asking for advice on a retiree maintaining a 1600 gal aquarium? Everyone's feedback is much appreciated, as it is true that I have never owned an acrylic tank. The real truth is that I would love to go acrylic and remove the silicone factor, but not if I have can't keep the darn thing clean and clear.
 

h2so4hurts

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 13, 2020
Messages
361
Reaction score
427
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Glass tanks are less likely to have catastrophic failure at their joints than acrylic, because "welds" can be poorly executed.
This is provably false. The number of threads about bottom seams blowing out on glass tanks far exceed those on acrylic, mostly because the strength of an Acrylic weld far exceeds, by more than an order of magnitude, the strength of silicone and glass. The only acrylic tanks that I've heard blow out a bottom seam were those made with WO40/42 which is an acrylic adhesive with superior strength if done correctly but with horrible strength if done poorly. WO4 will weld with a strength of 2500 psi, your tank will not see even 1/20th that at 36" (16PSI FWIW). Compare that to Dowsil 795, everyone's favorite structural silcone at 45 psi and I think you'll understand why the people who own acrylic continue to own it.
 

Reefer Reboot

F.V.P.!
View Badges
Joined
Jan 31, 2018
Messages
2,598
Reaction score
3,735
Location
Irvine, Ca.
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Greetings @DJKNOX, I too started this tank as a retirement project. I just jumped the gun a little bit but am now sort of retired thanks to that virus that shall not be named.;Mask:rolleyes: I have had glass tanks in the past (up to 220 gallons) and have had no more problems with them than acrylic ones. Meaning I have scratched both. Never had a blown out silicone seam but do know of others who have. Are acrylic tanks easier to scratch than glass? Of course, it's a softer material as we all know. Do they scratch every time you walk by? Well, no, they're not quite that easily scratched. Using the melamine foam cleaner on the mag cleaner also helps keep the inside surface buffed. So in my opinion it's kind of a toss up.
Since I'm running bare bottom I don't have to worry about sand getting caught by the mag cleaner but there is always going to be some kind of calcareous debris to watch out for. I also wanted to drill my own holes for some not so typical plumbing and decided that for me, acrylic would be easier. (Well, that and I got a fairly good deal on the tank too.)
I see (if I'm reading this right) that you are planning on using 2" thick glass. I have no clue as to the stress requirements for how thick the glass should be but that sounds pretty strong. My old 220 glass tank at one point became a planter out in the backyard and when I moved I had to break it up to throw it out. It was only 1" thick and it took some very hard hits with a hammer before it broke! So again, it's a toss up.
The only item I may disagree on is the clarity of acrylic due to thickness. Unlike your assumption of my tank dimensions, (DOH, caught ya ;Playful JK) my tank is a 36" cube with 1.25" thick acrylic. (yes, it's an overkill tank of a tank!) I can look through the side of the front panel through 36" of acrylic and read the writing of this post with ease.
So with all that said I don't know if any of this actually helped or not. Either way, these boxes of water are supposed to be here for our enjoyment, even though they can drive you crazy. (Maybe I should take up golf for "relaxational purposes".;Meh)
Either way you choose to go, can't wait to see your tank get built. Enjoy!
 

Joe Glass Cages

Passionate Glass Cages’s Team Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
1,172
Reaction score
5,654
Location
Dickson, TN
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Well, I do appreciate everyone's input. Frankly for medium-sized home aquariums... say <400 gal, I really can't see any great benefit in acrylic vs low iron glass. However, as costs are not absurd in those size ranges, I also don't see any big argument against acrylic either. I would go with glass because the top can be rimless (with euro bracing), construction has likely a lot less to go wrong, and scratching is really a non-issue except for extreme events. Glass tanks are less likely to have catastrophic failure at their joints than acrylic, because "welds" can be poorly executed. However, if one moves around a lot, the lightweight acrylic tank will be much appreciated! So I think one can choose glass or acrylic to suit their specific needs. For my 1600 gal island aquarium, extra costs for acrylic are significant. And, keeping very large and deep panels clean week in, week out, and the need to buff out micro-scratching, makes me inclined to believe that the acrylic tank will be a lot of work. Also, at 4 ft deep, please explain how I will buff out scratches below the 2 ft depth? For the glass aquarium, I can rest assured that with a little care, I will never have to repair panels at a 3 to 4 ft depth!

Frankly, my biggest concern with glass is that I can only buy low iron glass up to 3/4" unless I buy and ship from China :(. The US seems to have abandoned 1" glass :(:(. This means that structurally, to use 3/4" glass, I need double euro-bracing top and bottom and of course if the silicone seal breaks between the bracing and panel (silicone peel strength is only ~ 40 psi), the dynamic stress on that panel could cause a problem ( the deflection on the panel from full euro and cross bracing to zero bracing would shift 2" - not good) . My bottom line is that if I could buy Starphire glass at 1", I see no value in acrylic simply because I won't be moving this tank, and what they do with it when I'm 6ft under is not my concern.
@DJKNOX, 1" thick glass. or even Low-Iron at 1" thick. Yup, hard to find if you can. Here is an alternative to think about. Laminated Low-Iron Glass. Two sheets of Low-Iron glass laminated together with a PVB (polyvinyl butyral) interlayer. Looks incredible. Just a thought. We play with a lot of glass options here at Glass Cages.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 68 37.8%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 59 32.8%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 13.9%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 15.6%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top