At wits end [emoji31]

[Tanglover11]

I have always used the recommended dosage with no issues. I have only had to do follow up treatments a few times in 5 years . You will still need to restrict your air intake even if you don’t have a collection cup because after the treatment you will need to skim out the chemiclean. Depending on the size of your silicone tubing. You can try a chopstick or something of that diameter to restrict the air being pulled into the skimmer venturi. Without a skimmer cup it becomes very foamy(like a bubble bath). As the Cyano dies you want it to be removed with the skimmer or your just adding to the negative nutrient level in your aquarium.

 

[Tanglover11]

When I say restrict the air, I mean let enough air into the Protein Skimmer so that operates with normal foam to aerate the water and keep the Chemiclean in the water but not too much so that it doesn’t cause alot of foaming in your sump

 

[Samina]

Ahhh I see what you mean. Ok I will try the chopstick trick. Ok, I think I will try the recommended one scoop per 10gal and see how that works. It’s nerve wrecking thinking about doing it. But hopefully it goes smoothly with no losses, well besides that cyano, ugh.

And yes I do like that mud. I feel like it made my red macros much deeper red and also helped deepen color on some acros as well. It’s funny, cuz I read so many of your posts @saltyfilmfolks before I decided to actually try it out!

I target feed RO rinsed frozen mysis cubes x2 daily to the horses, and give the fish some pieces of mysis or TDO medium Chromaboost. Aside from that, I target feed oyster feast, ROE, cyclopleeze, and coral frenzy mixed once a week.

 

[Reef Jeff]

I agree that it appears to be mostly cyano in your pictures, but these events are usually a collection of several types of invasive bacteria and algae so you may see hair algae and dino's too. For the most part, and this is just based on what I see in the pictures, it looks like a lot of cyano. In my experience cyano gets a hold when PO4 and/or NO3 bottom out (zero) and when other conditions are right such as dead spots lacking flow where detritus can accumulate. Your nutrient levels are bouncing all over and that doesn't help. Try to stabilize your nitrates at 1-2 ppm and your PO4 at a target level. I like PO4 at .08 due to having a mixed reef, but you might try a bit lower till things get stable...shoot for .02 - .03 PO4 for now. If it were me, I would run skimmer 24/7, test and dose NO3 to keep nitrates stable and watch PO4 to see if it drops. If not, you will have to address that. GFO is okay when necessary, but for me it always causes other issues and it can be unpredicatabale. You need stability right now so things can settle down. Consider GAC 24/7 to help keep organics under control as well.

Try a test....syphon the spots where the cyano (or whatever it is) is seen. When you siphon it off, do you see a cloud of tan/bown debris under it? That suggests dead spots in your flow causing collection of detritus which serves as a nutrient rich place for cyano to start. Dino's will use that nutrient mix too so it could be either or both. If you see detritus under the mat of whatever it is, then you have a flow issue with dead spots...fix that and get the nutrients stable to help turn this around. I wouldn't give up yet...if you tear down and reset without figuring out the root cause you could end up right back where you started.

 

[lilchris_357]

To quickly identify if its Dinos, you can suck out the algae into a bucket, stir the water sample in the bucket until the algae breaks apart. Let it sit for about 30 mins, if the algae clumps back together, then you have Dinos. Disclaimer: there are different species of Dinos and the only way to determine that is with a microscope. A couple things you can do is first and foremost, no more water changes. That will just add trace elements and nutrients the Dinos need. Next I would do a 2 to 3 day black out. Lastly, start dosing bacteria to your system. The bacteria will start to consuming or out competing the nutrients the Dinos are feeding on. Keep your PO4 and NO3 at detectable levels but not high levels. First, ID to make sure Dinos are your culprit which I'm 99.9% positive it is. One thing is keep going, please don't give up.

 

[John3]

Looks to be dinos from the pics. I battled what looks to be exactly the same thing last year. It seems to dissappear at night but comes right back the next day. If you blow off your rock and clean it out in the daytime it will all grow back in a matter of hours.

I treated the tank with peroxide AND I would blow off the rocks and suck up all the crap that floats to the top. Squirt it into a piece of filter floss so you can put the water back. It took 2 weeks but once you turn the corner it will clear up almost overnight.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Ahhh I see what you mean. Ok I will try the chopstick trick. Ok, I think I will try the recommended one scoop per 10gal and see how that works. It’s nerve wrecking thinking about doing it. But hopefully it goes smoothly with no losses, well besides that cyano, ugh.

And yes I do like that mud. I feel like it made my red macros much deeper red and also helped deepen color on some acros as well. It’s funny, cuz I read so many of your posts @saltyfilmfolks before I decided to actually try it out!

I target feed RO rinsed frozen mysis cubes x2 daily to the horses, and give the fish some pieces of mysis or TDO medium Chromaboost. Aside from that, I target feed oyster feast, ROE, cyclopleeze, and coral frenzy mixed once a week.

Yup , im feeding nps and filter feeders. With acros in the tank (lol) It’s a serious balancing act.

The tanks is full of life, so I don’t see it hanging on very long.

A fwiw , I can’t feed LRS much , I get cyano. So high co2 and the right amino or carbon source and boop!
Cyano.

 

[Samina]

Thanks all for responding.

I am going to buy a microscope to positively ID this. Maybe it is a mix of cyano and dinos like you are saying @Reef Jeff. And I’ll put up the spare mp40 I have laying around to address any possible dead spots. I’ve been working on stabilizing nitrates and have been dosing KNO3. Everyday, it goes right back down so I haven’t been increasing dosage, just resisting at the same strength and will keep doing it until it levels out. PO4 was .05ppm today and NO3 was .25ppm. I have GAC in a media bag, I will eventually have to get a reactor for it.

@lilchris_357 unfortunately I can’t do a real and full black out because I have seahorses in there that have to be target fed twice a day. But the bacteria dosing is a good idea. I had ordered a bunch of amphipods and copepods to increase fauna to help outcompete whatever this is. But as far as bacteria, what do you recommend?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thanks all for responding.

I am going to buy a microscope to positively ID this. Maybe it is a mix of cyano and dinos like you are saying @Reef Jeff. And I’ll put up the spare mp40 I have laying around to address any possible dead spots. I’ve been working on stabilizing nitrates and have been dosing KNO3. Everyday, it goes right back down so I haven’t been increasing dosage, just resisting at the same strength and will keep doing it until it levels out. PO4 was .05ppm today and NO3 was .25ppm. I have GAC in a media bag, I will eventually have to get a reactor for it.

@lilchris_357 unfortunately I can’t do a real and full black out because I have seahorses in there that have to be target fed twice a day. But the bacteria dosing is a good idea. I had ordered a bunch of amphipods and copepods to increase fauna to help outcompete whatever this is. But as far as bacteria, what do you recommend?

If you put mud in. You put in a billion billion different ones.

 

[Samina]

Touché! Forgot about that!! What do you mean when you say you don’t see it hanging on much longer?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

If you’re doing all you say , you’re paying attention and the system will balance itself.
You may be feeding too much of something , but the bacteria and likely corals too, wil begin to eat more (corals are harder to convince lol), but similar to carbon dosing , the bacterial populations increase to process foods/ poop.

From what I understand of your tank , I’m thinking it’s a food.

A personal observation from my own tanks, the recommendations for feeding or heavy feeding is overblown a bit. I feed regularly but not heavily, and I do skip feedings from time to time. I have a 3 year old scallop.
A lot what they are eating isn’t the foods directly all the time , but the rotting leftovers ,(dissolved organics ) the majority most likely in the sump refugium. I keep the DT pretty clean. That actually is how I keep them fed all day.

On that note , you may want to take a look at the flow from the return and flow in general, with high DOC, the flow can let them settle and pile up in spots.
And yea, my sump has gotten prettt funk nasty from time to time playing with food amounts and types , and I cleaned it up , rinsed the chatos and things got better in the DT.

 

[Paullawr]

Touché! Forgot about that!! What do you mean when you say you don’t see it hanging on much longer?

Samina it's dinoflagellates.

You need to take a number of steps to get it sorted.

Buy cheap microscope with a 1200 or better magnification. Ideal if it has a phone lense connector to snap shots and ideally video.

We want to identify the strain. There are over 2000 variants though we see regularly around 7 types.

Id be edging my bets in saying you have ostreopsis buy microscope I'd will confirm.

If you have that you need to invest in a few items.

1) good UV. Jebao 55w will be fine unless you have an Olympic sized swimming pool for an aquarium. Ideally run it from display tank.

2) you will want to raise nitrate to around 3-5 ppm. Phosphate around 0.1 to 0.3.
Seachem sell phosphorus and nitrate for fresh water systems but will. Work fine for this treatment.

You will need to maintain these values for several months. However the UV will knock out ostreopsis quickly. Still continue treatment.

Dinoflagellate do not like elevated levels. I have my own theories but that's for another day.

Visit the dino thread (sticky) in this very forum for support and advice.

See you there.

 

[Samina]

Thanks everyone.

I bought a microscope... finally! I was just putting it off because I know how I am- if I am going to buy something, I have to make sure it’s of high quality and that usually comes with a premium price tag. Hence why I was putting it off, but I guess that is my problem anyway!!! [emoji849] ok so when it comes, I guess the truth shall be known [emoji51]. I will update with pics as soon as I get a sample under.

 

[Samina]

.... Well I think I have an idea of what the verdict is but feel free to tell me what you think. Let’s just say, it’s a sad day[emoji20]

 

[Reef Jeff]

Yep, dino’s For sure

 

[Paullawr]

.... Well I think I have an idea of what the verdict is but feel free to tell me what you think. Let’s just say, it’s a sad day[emoji20]

As expected. Ostreopsis.

Need to buy a good sized UV. Need to ensure phosphate is raised to around 0.1ppm and nitrate around 2-5ppm. Maintain this level for several months whilst running UV.

May help to remove sandbed as it forms part of their life cycle.

Reduce lighting period To around 5hrs a day and run on blue.

Stop using GFO, any carbon dosing or pellet reactors, amino acids and trace Elements.

Run activated carbon only.

A 10 micron filter sock will help if you have that type of setup (sump).

Good luck.

 

[Samina]

Thank you @Paullawr

I am looking at different UV’s now.

Do you think it would be wise to change out the sand? Or should I want to do that once the invasion subsided a bit.

Also, what does that green stuff look like to you in the first picture? Is it something separate or is it excretions from the ostreopsis?

 

[Paullawr]

Thank you @Paullawr

I am looking at different UV’s now.

Do you think it would be wise to change out the sand? Or should I want to do that once the invasion subsided a bit.

Also, what does that green stuff look like to you in the first picture? Is it something separate or is it excretions from the ostreopsis?

no point replacing sand it will just be rinfected in few days.

I would remove the sand and run barebottom for around six months then reevaluate and if all OK add new sand in. Go for thin layer to begin with.

The green is nothing to worry about and unrelated.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I have Dino’s. That never bloom. One would ask why that is.

 

[Paullawr]

I have Dino’s. That never bloom. One would ask why that is.

I have them too salty but have yet to bloom.

Too many factors can cause a bloom. Maintaining none perceived ideal conditions keeps them at bay.

I find temp swings brings them out to play Be interesting to see if people Suffer with them when a chiller is in use.

Either way continue to do as your doing and don't change anything

We can so easily be caught up in this bug and like to try new stuff and tweak. Honestly not worth it half the time.