ATI results back, sources of vanadium?

[DMG Reef]

You don't know if you have high levels of vanadium, nickel, etc, which might be something that black sand causes, because even if you do, your corals are doing fine, so you don't need to check.

Fair enough. That actually encourages me.

Yep, this is true. But if I have high levels of anything, my acros are diggin' it.

 

[DMG Reef]

To give you even more encouragement and to compare apples to apples, the OP's black sand appeared to be killing her digitata. This is my Forest Fire Digitata with Carib-Sea black sand.

 

[oreo54]

There are numerous reports of Tahitian Moon black killing freshwater fish...suspect heavy metal poisoning.
Caribsea apparently knew of bad batches ("a" batch) .

 

[SashimiTurtle]

There are numerous reports of Tahitian Moon black killing freshwater fish...suspect heavy metal poisoning.
Caribsea apparently knew of bad batches ("a" batch) but in 2016...

Interesting you should mention freshwater fish and heavy metal poisoning. I have a small 10g freshwater setup with anubias, java and wisteria. 2 small emerald cory cats are the only fish, the bettas both died of swim bladder complications, as did a dwarf flame gourami. I suspect the sand, it's the same as was used in the 35 saltwater tank.

 

[oreo54]

I initially deleted the 2016 date since I forgot where I read it.. found it..

at this point I called Carib Sea to get some evidence, and got a call back from Judd Mcracken their head of sales. He told me that Tahitian moon sand is discontinued and that they had a large shipment 2 years ago kill fish, and any still being sold in the last 2 years, AKA late 2016, all 2017 to present are suspect and may be bad.

 

[FishingLovingSons]

I initially deleted the 2016 date since I forgot where I read it.. found it..

Can you please post the link to the thread where you quoted this from? I’m currently testing the Nat Geo brand black sand in a 10g. Here’s that thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-substrate.480456/page-2#post-5272187

 

[oreo54]

When I said "found it" I put the link in.
apparently they censor some here..
I'm pretty sure it was at "plantedtank.net" but I'd have to dig... again..and then it will prob. be "erased".. again..

 

[FishingLovingSons]

When I said "found it" I put the link in.
apparently they censor some here..
I'm pretty sure it was at "plantedtank.net" but I'd have to dig... again..and then it will prob. be "erased".. again..

No worries, thanks for the info.

 

[Chewdoggie]

I am in similar boat. I recently got my ATI ICP test back (first one) and was surprised by the high vanadium level (35.94), aluminum (7.58), silicon (304.3) and barium (49.08). I have a 6 stage RO/DI system and change all the filters and DI resin religiously. TDS is currently 1 because I am awaiting the replacement DI resin shipment. I change the DI and my RO filter blocks (because they are cheap enough) when it is anything other than zero. I mix RS Coral Pro or regular Red Sea depending on availability. I clean out my drums regularly. The pump for the salt mixing station is an external Velocity T4 titanium...which is serviced every 6 months. Heater is new and intact.

The tank was broken down, upgraded and recently reset in April. I am losing coral now that I have had in holding tanks far less sophisticated for years. I think the Barium is coming from the Red Sea Reef Foundation A since my Strontium (14) and Calcium (479) were also high. I was previously using BRS two part.

The only equipment in the tank is a Gyre 230, the Apex ATK magnet, Apex probes, TLF Veggie Magnet clip, a Reef Octopus VarioS-6 pump and a RO Regal skimmer running the VarioS pump as well. All the equipment is brand new. I check magnets regularly due to an issue in the past with Apex probe holder swelling and leeching which had similar coral STN results before I figured it out. Really considering pulling all magnets out, especially if this leads back to one of my current three. I don't visually see it tho.

However, after reading this thread I am considering that all my ceramic grow-out doughnuts and islands might be the source. I have about 50 of them holding zoanthid frags. I bought them from a vendor on Amazon - ReefCreators I am thinking this because someone mentioned your skull decor.

Also...my sand is Carbisea's live oolite, again brand new.

All SPS corals hate the tank. Now the favias are looking bad.

Any thoughts?

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I am in similar boat. I recently got my ATI ICP test back (first one) and was surprised by the high vanadium level (35.94), aluminum (7.58), silicon (304.3) and barium (49.08). I have a 6 stage RO/DI system and change all the filters and DI resin religiously. TDS is currently 1 because I am awaiting the replacement DI resin shipment. I change the DI and my RO filter blocks (because they are cheap enough) when it is anything other than zero. I mix RS Coral Pro or regular Red Sea depending on availability. I clean out my drums regularly. The pump for the salt mixing station is an external Velocity T4 titanium...which is serviced every 6 months. Heater is new and intact.

The tank was broken down, upgraded and recently reset in April. I am losing coral now that I have had in holding tanks far less sophisticated for years. I think the Barium is coming from the Red Sea Reef Foundation A since my Strontium (14) and Calcium (479) were also high. I was previously using BRS two part.

The only equipment in the tank is a Gyre 230, the Apex ATK magnet, Apex probes, TLF Veggie Magnet clip, a Reef Octopus VarioS-6 pump and a RO Regal skimmer running the VarioS pump as well. All the equipment is brand new. I check magnets regularly due to an issue in the past with Apex probe holder swelling and leeching which had similar coral STN results before I figured it out. Really considering pulling all magnets out, especially if this leads back to one of my current three. I don't visually see it tho.

However, after reading this thread I am considering that all my ceramic grow-out doughnuts and islands might be the source. I have about 50 of them holding zoanthid frags. I bought them from a vendor on Amazon - ReefCreators I am thinking this because someone mentioned your skull decor.

Also...my sand is Carbisea's live oolite, again brand new.

All SPS corals hate the tank. Now the favias are looking bad.

Any thoughts?

Mix up some new salt water. Put a new ceramic tile in a bucket with the water and close the lid. Let it sit a few weeks then send off a sample. If it has the same results as your tank you'll know.

 

[Chewdoggie]

Mix up some new salt water. Put a new ceramic tile in a bucket with the water and close the lid. Let it sit a few weeks then send off a sample. If it has the same results as your tank you'll know.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm going to pull all the ReefCreator stuff out and put in my nano. I'll test in a few weeks after it has had time to work its magic. In the meantime, I have to make the best guess and try to save the corals...so hoping its the ceramics.

Thank you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am in similar boat. I recently got my ATI ICP test back (first one) and was surprised by the high vanadium level (35.94), aluminum (7.58), silicon (304.3) and barium (49.08).

I'm not sure any of those are an actual issue (it;'s not really possible to know with certainty since trace metals come in many forms), but the vanadium would be most concerning to me. The others are just not very high or not very toxic.

 

[rkpetersen]

I am in similar boat. I recently got my ATI ICP test back (first one) and was surprised by the high vanadium level (35.94), aluminum (7.58), silicon (304.3) and barium (49.08).

I'm not sure any of those are an actual issue (it;'s not really possible to know with certainty since trace metals come in many forms), but the vanadium would be most concerning to me. The others are just not very high or not very toxic.

FWIW, I'm still running an 'experiment' with my most recent tank setup. I used black sand, which based on several other threads here, seems to commonly contain and leach both nickel and vanadium. And indeed, both levels have been high with this tank on 3 serial ICP-OES tests. The vanadium level, in particular, at the end of August of this year was 30 (Triton) and 27 (ATI). This remains of concern, but so far, 6 months in, I have had few unexplained deaths, with some 50 anemones of various kinds doing well, corals doing well including rapidly growing sps corals, and no issues with fish or inverts. So, that's encouraging. However, it is still possible that any negative effects will present themselves with longer exposure to the elevated vanadium level. It is also possible that the level is still increasing; I'm going to be sending off another ICP-OES in 2 weeks.

 

[FishingLovingSons]

FWIW, I'm still running an 'experiment' with my most recent tank setup. I used black sand, which based on several other threads here, seems to commonly contain and leach both nickel and vanadium. And indeed, both levels have been high with this tank on 3 serial ICP-OES tests. The vanadium level, in particular, at the end of August of this year was 30 (Triton) and 27 (ATI). This remains of concern, but so far, 6 months in, I have had few unexplained deaths, with some 50 anemones of various kinds doing well, corals doing well including rapidly growing sps corals, and no issues with fish or inverts. So, that's encouraging. However, it is still possible that any negative effects will present themselves with longer exposure to the elevated vanadium level. It is also possible that the level is still increasing; I'm going to be sending off another ICP-OES in 2 weeks.

What manufacturer of “black sand” did you use- CaribSea Hawaiian or Tahitian Moon? Imagitarium? API? Nat Geo?

 

[acrylic2k]

ICP testing is a great way to identify contaminating culprits.
The brand that offers free RO water testing is essentially giving you two for one.
Soak one suspect in RO water, soak a different suspect in new salt water, send it in and wait for results.

I know without a doubt that my black sand leached vanadium and nickel (and other crap) using this method.

 

[rkpetersen]

What manufacturer of “black sand” did you use- CaribSea Hawaiian or Tahitian Moon? Imagitarium? API? Nat Geo?

Carib-Sea Indo-Pacific Black.

 

[A.Percula]

I am glad I found this thread.

I am going through the same issue with my tank. Its been running for 8 months and it has been the hardest and most troublemaking tank Ive ever had. All hermits and shrimp die within days. Fish start getting skin sores and die. SPS get RTN and LPS do not extend and then die. All other parameters are on point. I had more luck with a tank I had with tap water...

I finally decided s to spend some money on an ICP tests and it came back high in nickel, aluminum, and vanadium. among others...

Nickel 38.76 ug/l vice 0.49 ug/l threshold

Cobalt 1.27 ug/l vice 0.10 ug/l threshold

Vanadium 495.2 ug/l vice 1.47 ug/l threshold


I always suspected of the sand because if its magnetic properties, but I guess this confirms it. I removed most of the sand, there are some grains there, but the majority is gone. I hope it can recover, if not I will never rebuild.

I am now doing 20% water changes with Marine Pro Reef (hell expensive) . The good thing is that they dont sell this sand anymore.

 

[dantimdad]

This is crazy. Why couldn't I have found this thread a year ago?

I used Tahitian moon (against my opinion, son wanted it) in the corner bow I tore down.

Every SPS or LPS we put in it died within a few weeks. Everything I could test looked fine. Never could figure it out so I broke the tank down, killed the rock and sold all of it to a friend to put dart frogs in it.

I am now convinced the sand was the issue as I started with BRS rock that was acid cured then fresh water soaked for 3 weeks.

The tank was cycled with a dead shrimp and ammonia.

This really stinks. I will never go with anything but special grade aragonite again.

 

[James Tucker]

Doing a tank tear down and investigation. I have black sand, Caribsea Hawaiian. Definitely some metal in there that can be pulled out with a magnet. Best case it gets stuck to a glass cleaner, scratching the glass as it is cleaned.

Thinking about going back to what I was using originally.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

For my first saltwater tank back in the early 1990's I used crushed shellgrit collected from the area in the circled zone.
I discovered it had a lot of iron bits that were attracted by the glass cleaning magnet.