ATO sensor in last chamber with pump? (Basement Sump)

[Uncle99]

Yes you are logically correct that the water evaporated on the whole system. But you can try this now actually.

Turned off your ATO,
Take a cup of water out of your DT(evaporation), then watch your sump. The only water level change should be the return chamber only.
Then you can pour it back on your DT and the water levels should normalize

Your right, back in the return it goes, looks like the only option is to delay power to the ATO for 5-10 minutes Until level stabilizes.

Thanks for the help!

 

[anthonygf]

Yup the baffle for the bubble trap will make the water levels stays the same on the chambers before the bubble trap

If the bubble trap is a sponge, it will collect some detritus and start to plug up, which will cause the levels to change independently of evaporation? I assume.

 

[Philly Reefer]

If the bubble trap is a sponge, it will collect some detritus and start to plug up, which will cause the levels to change independently of evaporation? I assume.

Bubble trap the baffle/dividers. Not the sponge.
Without the sponge the water level on the return pump will still fluctuate due to evaporation

Google Image Result for https://renaissancereef.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/bubble-trap-demo.jpg

I use the sponge to keep my chaeto from going in the return chamber.

 

[Breadman03]

Ok, I see, that’s a great idea using a delay.....certainly fixes the problem
So that’s how you guys get around the “cold start” refill problem.

You should also consider how quickly your ATO fills. I'm using my DOS pump. It would be easy to program a delay, but I have the pump set to dose about twice my daily evap (at least before a tank leak and relocating to a Rubbermaid stock tank for a bit), so it doesn't matter if I get a bit of an advance top off. I might swap to a small pump at some point, but the locations of my water reservoir and sump made the DOS my best choice. My upcoming tank location will be conducive to a less costly option and free up a dosing head for something else if needed.

 

[dbowman5]

Ok, I see, that’s a great idea using a delay.....certainly fixes the problem
So that’s how you guys get around the “cold start” refill problem.

from what i am seeing i don't think you have a problem. sure the ATO kicks in on restart but you said it is an inch below normal in the pump section. that isn't very much water in a 180 gal system. probably 200 gal with the sump volume. if you add 1 gallon of fresh water to that size system it just means that your ATO will be off for a while after it stabilizes.

 

[Philly Reefer]

from what i am seeing i don't think you have a problem. sure the ATO kicks in on restart but you said it is an inch below normal in the pump section. that isn't very much water in a 180 gal system. probably 200 gal with the sump volume. if you add 1 gallon of fresh water to that size system it just means that your ATO will be off for a while after it stabilizes.

You have to account his DT is on his living room while the sump is in the basement. As he said, it took around 5-10mins for his sump to normalize.
That can be way more than 1 gallon.

 

[ReefBeta]

Ok, I see, that’s a great idea using a delay.....certainly fixes the problem
So that’s how you guys get around the “cold start” refill problem.

I never experienced the cold start problem like yours with sump under tank stand, the water comes back to the sump before level in return drop under ato level. I think it's only because your sump is on the floor below that cause that much delay. It's not a common problem to have.

 

[Uncle99]

Other than using a delay timer, Found another solution to the “delay” of water causing the return water level dropping below ATO sensor for a few minutes until it “recovers” to the normal position.

First of all, I just added a bit more water to the overflow section, instead of 7”, I run 9”. Helped a lot.
In addition, I ran a T off the return pump pipe, added a gate vale, and this dumps back into the overflow.
Now the restart of the return pump draws water a bit slower and the level only drops down, and stops right on the ATO sensor.

Big thanks to you all, never used a sump that wasn’t close to the DT.

Learned a ton from all your responses.

 

[Uncle99]

I never experienced the cold start problem like yours with sump under tank stand, the water comes back to the sump before level in return drop under ato level. I think it's only because your sump is on the floor below that cause that much delay. It's not a common problem to have.

Yup, agreed, never took into account the water traveling from sump to DT.

 

[Uncle99]

You should also consider how quickly your ATO fills. I'm using my DOS pump. It would be easy to program a delay, but I have the pump set to dose about twice my daily evap (at least before a tank leak and relocating to a Rubbermaid stock tank for a bit), so it doesn't matter if I get a bit of an advance top off. I might swap to a small pump at some point, but the locations of my water reservoir and sump made the DOS my best choice. My upcoming tank location will be conducive to a less costly option and free up a dosing head for something else if needed.

Your right, it’s not a lot....just bugs the crap out of me!

 

[dbowman5]

You have to account his DT is on his living room while the sump is in the basement. As he said, it took around 5-10mins for his sump to normalize.
That can be way more than 1 gallon.

the good news is that a solution was found that works for Uncle99.
I also have a basement sump. when the power goes off as it did yesterday the DT drains down to the sump until the siphon on the return pump breaks. I have an under water return spray bar so i lose about an inch and a half of DT volume. (it would be about one half inch if it was just overflowing through the Eshopps L.) As i was saying, that water went to the sump which left the return and overflow pipes empty and the sump level higher. since there was no turbulence there was minimal evaporation during the power outage. once power returned, the water that was normally in the DT and pipes started pumping back out of the sump. Since there was sufficient water before the outage the only issue for me was that the speed of return before the siphon on my bean animal was reestablished was too slow to keep up with the return pump and the DT level in the overflow box rose high enough to create a siphon in the partial siphon pipe and go into the emergency pipe. during this initial pipe filling experience the ATO did cycle on but since i am using a powerhead as a pump by the time it had pumped a little the return pipes had filled and the ATO shut off. then it was a case of the siphon bouncing for a couple of minutes between the full siphon and the partial to purge the air from the full siphon during which the combined flow was enough to keep the sump at the proper level.

 

[dbowman5]

wow! wordy i am. nice sump by the way