AWC Problems: Just a Heads up for all that use a similar system

HKAVR45

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Of course, the story begins with me on vacation. Never had an issue in the 1.5 years this thing has been running.

Setup:
Reefer 525XL
Tunze ATO
20g RODI reservoir
Neptune DOS in the basement
2 x 50g water containers (RODI/SALT)

Pretty standard setup. I have the DOS to replace about 2g per day for roughly a 10% change weekly. Before going on vacation I made a fresh batch of salt water (a blend between Fritz blue and Red Sea Pro). The DOS pumps up 1 floor and has a run of about 30 feet horizontally. Like I mentioned this has worked flawlessly for well over a year. So while on vacation I like to monitor the wattage of all equipment plugged into the power bar. Nothing seemed out of wack until the wattage on the skimmer when from about 34 to 58. I don't think this was related to the AWC issue, but I did power it down and simply increased my AWC rate to compensate. Hey that's why we have this equipment, right?

Cut to the chase:
I get home and the reservoir is completely empty and the return chamber is just about to run dry. 20g of ATO in the summer should last me at least 1.5 weeks. I was away for 5 days. So I check the DOS pumps only to find the tabs and stabilizer posts broken on both the waste and fresh water. No problem I have replacements so I swap them out. Test again, still no water to the display. So I run a a quick test on the DOS by taking all of the plumbing out of the equation. Calibrate and things work perfectly, so its not the DOS. Reattach the plumbing from the salt container and I have problems. I take apart the plumbing only to find the lines to be completely blocked by a gray sediment. As I started replacing the lines the system worked as expected.

Conclusion:
The remove portion of the DOS pump worked as expected, but because of the blockage the refill side did not. As a result everytime I removed water with the AWC the water added was RODI from the topoff. This decreased my salinity to below 1.020. I've used Fritz salt before, and I've used the blend before. My only guess is that over time the blockage slowly increased causing the failure. Because of this I think I'm going to switch salt to straight up Red Sea Blue/Pro mix or go back to Tropic Marin. Those in my experience mix very clean, while the Fritz hasn't.

Interested if anyone else has had similar issues.
 
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Gablami

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Thanks for sharing.

I agree with you. I started doing auto water change with a dos for a few months before switching to a dual line masterflex pump. I did this for another 2 year or so before I became wary of AWC through 1/4 Rodi tubing and switched away from AWC.

The problem is not the type of peripump because I think it happens with all pumps. It’s the narrow diameter 1/4 tubing and also the tiny barbs that are needed to convert to the flexible tubing the peripumps need. There will always be some sort of deposit within the tubing. Cut open any tubing that’s been running for enough time, and there will be a hard sediment in there, narrowing the inner diameter. The same thing happens with my carx tubing. Leave that long enough and it will narrow to the point where it’s very easy to have it clogged with debris.

Freshly mixed salt water is even more prone to precipitation within the tubes. RHF has written that there are more components in tank water to “stabilize” the ions. When it’s freshly mixed alk drop happens with time.

I experienced a few clogs with the AWC and then I started replacing the tubing every 6 months or so. Then after a couple more clogs, I got nervous about fluctuating salinity and stopped before I had a major disaster.

im surprised more people haven’t written about this problem, given all that say they do AWC with 1/4 tubing. It’s probably fine for most people, until it isn’t. But if I had to give any advice, I do think Rodi tubing should be replaced at least yearly, and your peripump tubing should be inspected and flushed out every 3 months or so, and definitely before a vacation (or just pause the entire operation if going on vacation).
 

Jason Scalise

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That’s an interesting issue...and in my case, I am prone to it. My set up has lots of similarities to what you describe.
something for me to keep an eye on.
Taking the AWC function off line during a vacation Is a good thought.

did you have any livestock losses?
 

ReefKeeperElite

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Of course, the story begins with me on vacation. Never had an issue in the 1.5 years this thing has been running.

Setup:
Reefer 525XL
Tunze ATO
20g RODI reservoir
Neptune DOS in the basement
2 x 50g water containers (RODI/SALT)

Pretty standard setup. I have the DOS to replace about 2g per day for roughly a 10% change weekly. Before going on vacation I made a fresh batch of salt water (a blend between Fritz blue and Red Sea Pro). The DOS pumps up 1 floor and has a run of about 30 feet horizontally. Like I mentioned this has worked flawlessly for well over a year. So while on vacation I like to monitor the wattage of all equipment plugged into the power bar. Nothing seemed out of wack until the wattage on the skimmer when from about 34 to 58. I don't think this was related to the AWC issue, but I did power it down and simply increased my AWC rate to compensate. Hey that's why we have this equipment, right?

Cut to the chase:
I get home and the reservoir is completely empty and the return chamber is just about to run dry. 20g of ATO in the summer should last me at least 1.5 weeks. I was away for 5 days. So I check the DOS pumps only to find the tabs and stabilizer posts broken on both the waste and fresh water. No problem I have replacements so I swap them out. Test again, still no water to the display. So I run a a quick test on the DOS by taking all of the plumbing out of the equation. Calibrate and things work perfectly, so its not the DOS. Reattach the plumbing from the salt container and I have problems. I take apart the plumbing only to find the lines to be completely blocked by a gray sediment. As I started replacing the lines the system worked as expected.

Conclusion:
The remove portion of the DOS pump worked as expected, but because of the blockage the refill side did not. As a result everytime I removed water with the AWC the water added was RODI from the topoff. This decreased my salinity to below 1.020. I've used Fritz salt before, and I've used the blend before. My only guess is that over time the blockage slowly increased causing the failure. Because of this I think I'm going to switch salt to straight up Red Sea Blue/Pro mix or go back to Tropic Marin. Those in my experience mix very clean, while the Fritz hasn't.

Interested if anyone else has had similar issues.
Yes. I posted something similar yesterday:
I am starting with Tropic Marin Pro today.
 
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HKAVR45

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That’s an interesting issue...and in my case, I am prone to it. My set up has lots of similarities to what you describe.
something for me to keep an eye on.
Taking the AWC function off line during a vacation Is a good thought.

did you have any livestock losses?
No livestock losses, and all the coral even the limited beginner SPS look fine. Acans a bit pale. I am working on raising the salinity very slowly. I have limited evap during the summer and I'm running another DOS through a kalk reactor so between the two topping off with salt water has been a slow process. I've started running the AWC waste line to speed things up.
 
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HKAVR45

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Thanks for sharing.

I agree with you. I started doing auto water change with a dos for a few months before switching to a dual line masterflex pump. I did this for another 2 year or so before I became wary of AWC through 1/4 Rodi tubing and switched away from AWC.

The problem is not the type of peripump because I think it happens with all pumps. It’s the narrow diameter 1/4 tubing and also the tiny barbs that are needed to convert to the flexible tubing the peripumps need. There will always be some sort of deposit within the tubing. Cut open any tubing that’s been running for enough time, and there will be a hard sediment in there, narrowing the inner diameter. The same thing happens with my carx tubing. Leave that long enough and it will narrow to the point where it’s very easy to have it clogged with debris.

Freshly mixed salt water is even more prone to precipitation within the tubes. RHF has written that there are more components in tank water to “stabilize” the ions. When it’s freshly mixed alk drop happens with time.

I experienced a few clogs with the AWC and then I started replacing the tubing every 6 months or so. Then after a couple more clogs, I got nervous about fluctuating salinity and stopped before I had a major disaster.

im surprised more people haven’t written about this problem, given all that say they do AWC with 1/4 tubing. It’s probably fine for most people, until it isn’t. But if I had to give any advice, I do think Rodi tubing should be replaced at least yearly, and your peripump tubing should be inspected and flushed out every 3 months or so, and definitely before a vacation (or just pause the entire operation if going on vacation).

I bought 50' of RODI tubing for 12 bucks. The cost to replace even every 6 months is negligible. I feared the difficulty. So far I've replaced everything except the 35' run. I even replaced the few john guest elbows.

How are you flushing the system? Maybe run 5g of a citric acid mix through the line followed by 5g of RODI? That would be way easier than replacing everything.
 
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HKAVR45

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Yes. I posted something similar yesterday:
I am starting with Tropic Marin Pro today.

Interesting about the Red Sea Pro. I've run this salt before in a blend with the blue bucket and never had any sort of residue at the bottom of my storage container. Fritz on the other hand has given me brown crud after 3-4 batches.

I ran TM Pro on a much smaller tank and I can say its the cleanest mixed salt I've ever used.
 

Gablami

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I bought 50' of RODI tubing for 12 bucks. The cost to replace even every 6 months is negligible. I feared the difficulty. So far I've replaced everything except the 35' run. I even replaced the few john guest elbows.

How are you flushing the system? Maybe run 5g of a citric acid mix through the line followed by 5g of RODI? That would be way easier than replacing everything.
I would just use electrical tape to secure one end of the old Rodi tubing to the new Rodi tubing and pull the other end of the old tubing out, thus threading the new tubing into place. I don’t have anything securing the tubing in place and no sharp turns, so that worked easily.

If you can’t replace, I like the idea of using concentrated citric acid and letting it sit for awhile, maybe doing it more than once before flushing it out with rodi.
 
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HKAVR45

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I would just use electrical tape to secure one end of the old Rodi tubing to the new Rodi tubing and pull the other end of the old tubing out, thus threading the new tubing into place. I don’t have anything securing the tubing in place and no sharp turns, so that worked easily.

If you can’t replace, I like the idea of using concentrated citric acid and letting it sit for awhile, maybe doing it more than once before flushing it out with rodi.

I've got bulkheads 90's and its all in conduit in the basement. Not impossible, but a pain. I have 50' on the way and will replace. For now running a vinegar solution through the lines at regular speed. Thanks for the idea @ReefKeeperElite
 

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Running Citric acid or Vinigar through the lines once a year may be some cheap insurance. Like other I also run a DOS for AWC...and I happen to currently be on vacation. Thanks for making me worry! Lol
 

Gablami

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I use 1 cup citric acid to 1 gallon water for standard pump soaking etc. can make it more concentrated if desired. Don’t buy the BRS stuff. Much cheaper to go with cooking citric acid on Amazon or elsewhere.
 

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So here's my maintenance idea:

Two gallon jugs of cleaner solution of your choice.

Place one gallon on each end of your DOS AWC system.

One each end, put both the clean and was water lines into the same container.

Allow system to run at increased flow rates (30 Gallons per Day if you can stand the noise)

After full cycle, remove the cleaning solution and replace with RODI. All I system to flush by running 30 gallons again.

After lines have been flushed take system back online with fresh salt water.

What do you think? Will it work?
 

ReefKeeperElite

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I've got bulkheads 90's and its all in conduit in the basement. Not impossible, but a pain. I have 50' on the way and will replace. For now running a vinegar solution through the lines at regular speed. Thanks for the idea @ReefKeeperElite
No worries, FYI I ran the vinegar solution through 4 times, stopping every 2 hours to let it sit in the tubing and dissolve the deposits. The first time the bulk of the deposits were removed, there was lots of crust in my target container, along with some other strange green bubbly deposits. Afterward, I flushed the line with RODI for 10 minutes or so. I plan to add this task to my normal maintenance, and do it every few months. I'm hoping the Tropic Marin Pro will help out too.
 
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HKAVR45

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So here's my maintenance idea:

Two gallon jugs of cleaner solution of your choice.

Place one gallon on each end of your DOS AWC system.

One each end, put both the clean and was water lines into the same container.

Allow system to run at increased flow rates (30 Gallons per Day if you can stand the noise)

After full cycle, remove the cleaning solution and replace with RODI. All I system to flush by running 30 gallons again.

After lines have been flushed take system back online with fresh salt water.

What do you think? Will it work?

I hope that will work. That's exactly what I'm doing now, except I'm running it at normal speed to let the vinegar work its magic inside the tubing. I have a 5 gallon jug on either end of my AWC. Once completed (tomorrow), I will do a fast flush with RODI.
 

Marc88

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I hope that will work. That's exactly what I'm doing now, except I'm running it at normal speed to let the vinegar work its magic inside the tubing. I have a 5 gallon jug on either end of my AWC. Once completed (tomorrow), I will do a fast flush with RODI.

Good. Looks like @ReefKeeperElite is doing something similar. Hope it works out. Post and update with pics when your done. I'd like to see how much comes out of the lines.
 

Gablami

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I like the idea of cleaning more than replacing the lines. I think running vinegar/citric acid through the tubing will definitely help clear the tubing and the peripump attachments. Nice work people!
 

Marc88

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Cleaning is definitely better for me than replacing. I really don't want to go in my attic again. Just finished running a line of fresh air outside for the skimmer.
 

Kyl

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I bought 50' of RODI tubing for 12 bucks. The cost to replace even every 6 months is negligible. I feared the difficulty. So far I've replaced everything except the 35' run. I even replaced the few john guest elbows.

How are you flushing the system? Maybe run 5g of a citric acid mix through the line followed by 5g of RODI? That would be way easier than replacing everything.
You can mix up any type of acid, pull it from the bucket and draw until it starts to exit. Then let it sit for a few hours, and honestly I would then direct-plumb both ends, if possible, to a faucet and just blast water through to dislodge all the scalings.
 
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