Baby Clownfish with potential ich. Have a game plan but not sure.

[cybrook1421]

First of all, is this ich? or is it something else.

Background: These are my first every saltwater fish and so I am pretty attached and want to do what I can to save them.

I got 2 clownfish from a local breeder, and a cardinalfish and red firefish from my LFS 10 days ago. The clownfish with potential ich is 1/2 to 3/4 inches, probably closer to 1/2. The other clown is a little smaller than 1 inch. Feeding TDO to the clownfish as that is what they grew up on and garlic soaked mysis for the cardinalfish and firefish. I do a small water change every other day to get out the leftover food, probably no more than 10%.

Timeline:
Day 0: All fish went into a cycled 20 gal QT with rock, pvc and a terracotta pot (suggested by CF breeder as he uses them). It has a Tidal HOB with sponge and Matrix. No medications. Tiny clownfish seemed to have a little trouble eating at first. Just didn't quite have the coordination. Cardinalfish and firefish did not eat at first either.

Day 3: Firefish dies for unknown reasons. It was not eating well and I suspect stress. It was hiding under the PVC almost all day. I bought it the same day it came into the LFS. Got firefish out of the tank within 8 hours of dying. Cardinalfish is now eating garlic-soaked mysis after dark. Tiny clownfish seems to be eating better when I crush up the pellets. Bigger clownfish is eating just fine.

Day 9 evening: Noticed tiny clownfish was a little weak swimming (as shown in video in the link above)

Day 10 morning (today): noticed tiny clownfish still a little weak and had a few white dots (as shown in the pictures in the link above). Did not seem as willing to go after food. No signs of white dots on the other clown or cardinal fish. No other behavioral changes in the bigger clown and cardinalfish.

Gameplan if ich:
I have copper power and the Hanna copper checker.
New Day 0 (Today): Dose copper to 0.5. Take out the rock and terracotta.
Day 1: Increase copper to 1.5 if they are handling 0.5 well. Do this over a few doses so as to slowly up the copper.
Day 2: Increase copper to 2.5 if they are still handling it well. Do this over a few doses so as to slowly up the copper.
Day 3 - 17: Keep copper at 2.5. Small water changes for ammonia removal and keep Prime on hand for emergency ammonia. Hopefully the matrix in the HOB will keep up without the rock.
Day 18: Transfer to new/clean 10 gal to observe for 2 weeks. Will have new PVC and a sponge filter. No copper or other meds.

Questions:
How do I keep my DT cycled during this time? I have been ghost feeding it with old fishfood that I have for the last two weeks or so. Would this work long term?
Is there anything I am missing? Since this is my first fish I am very anxious/stressed about them.
Is there anything I can do to help the clown short-term until copper reaches therapeutic levels?

Thank you in advance to any and all help!!!!!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks more like brooklynella which affects mainly wild caught clowns
Looks like they’re in quarantine now?
A 5 minute freshwater dip will offer them temporary relief if their breathing is rapid or stopped feeding
Treatment will be formalin based using quick cure or you can also use ruby rally pro but it will take a little longer to fully treat

 

[cybrook1421]

Looks more like brooklynella which affects mainly wild caught clowns
Looks like they’re in quarantine now?
A 5 minute freshwater dip will offer them temporary relief if their breathing is rapid or stopped feeding
Treatment will be formalin based using quick cure or you can also use ruby rally pro but it will take a little longer to fully treat

They are not wild caught. They were bred locally and came from a very well-respected breeder.

Yes, they are in a QT tank and have been for 10 days, as per my post.

 

[SlugSnorter]

in addition, it may be hard to keep such a small, baby clown. please consider a more mature clown for your first tank. Baby clowns are less hardy, more easily bullied, and can only eat small foods.

They are not wild caught. They were bred locally and came from a very well-respected breeder.

Yes, they are in a QT tank and have been for 10 days, as per my post.

Test params often, ensure ammonia is 0.

if DT is cycled, just feed a bit. Maybe throw in a nassarius vibex snail (they eat scraps, not algae)

do not use tapwater when doing a wc, or for anything tank related for that matter.

ensure salinity is good, and consider getting an ATO.

Please try and give us other symptoms (rapid breathing, rejection of food, white spots that move and sometimes disappear, white spots that don't move, cloudy eyes, constant swimming into the flow, "yawning", "twitching", scratching against stuff in the tank), and check if the small clown is being bullied.

 

[rmorris_14]

I see the spots in the second pic.. it’s hard to tell because it might be that the clownfish is so small, but the spots look too big for ich. Have they changed location?. Ich spots will change locate and amount. Lymph (which is virus)will stay in the same spot and clear up with good water quality in time.

 

[cybrook1421]

in addition, it may be hard to keep such a small, baby clown. please consider a more mature clown for your first tank. Baby clowns are less hardy, more easily bullied, and can only eat small foods.

You are correct, I probably should have gotten one slightly bigger, but here we are. It has been eating fine the past 10 days until this morning.

do not use tapwater when doing a wc, or for anything tank related for that matter.

ensure salinity is good, and consider getting an ATO.

I have a full rodi system so I'm good there. Salinity was at 1.025 last night but I will check again today after work. I top off every morning and evening with rodi and have a tape mark as to where the level should be at.

Please try and give us other symptoms (rapid breathing, rejection of food, white spots that move and sometimes disappear, white spots that don't move, cloudy eyes, constant swimming into the flow, "yawning", "twitching", scratching against stuff in the tank), and check if the small clown is being bullied.

I sit and watch them for about 20 minutes in the morning and 30 in the afternoon. I have not seen any bullying from the bigger clown.

I just noticed the white spots this morning. I will compare to my pictures this afternoon to see if they have changed. It's eyes still looked clear but it had trouble swimming as in the video in my first link. Potentially quicker breathing but not positive as it is hard to see. The small clown also might have a slight defect in the gills/jaw which makes them appear to be larger and less streamlined, similar to the pictures in this post. Now sure if that is just age or not.

It is not swimming in the flow. It doesn't seem to be yawning or twitching other than the movements that are shown in the video.

I will watch them more tonight to see if anything has changed or new symptoms appear.

I see the spots in the second pic.. it’s hard to tell because it might be that the clownfish is so small, but the spots look too big for ich. Have they changed location?. Ich spots will change locate and amount. Lymph (which is virus)will stay in the same spot and clear up with good water quality in time.

It doesn't look quite as "cottony" as the lymph pictures I see online. It did look very circular and almost like a small bump. I will try to get a better picture this afternoon.

Would it be a good idea to do a 50% water change?

 

[SlugSnorter]

You are correct, I probably should have gotten one slightly bigger, but here we are. It has been eating fine the past 10 days until this morning.


I have a full rodi system so I'm good there. Salinity was at 1.025 last night but I will check again today after work. I top off every morning and evening with rodi and have a tape mark as to where the level should be at.


I sit and watch them for about 20 minutes in the morning and 30 in the afternoon. I have not seen any bullying from the bigger clown.

I just noticed the white spots this morning. I will compare to my pictures this afternoon to see if they have changed. It's eyes still looked clear but it had trouble swimming as in the video in my first link. Potentially quicker breathing but not positive as it is hard to see. The small clown also might have a slight defect in the gills/jaw which makes them appear to be larger and less streamlined, similar to the pictures in this post. Now sure if that is just age or not.

It is not swimming in the flow. It doesn't seem to be yawning or twitching other than the movements that are shown in the video.

I will watch them more tonight to see if anything has changed or new symptoms appear.



It doesn't look quite as "cottony" as the lymph pictures I see online. It did look very circular and almost like a small bump. I will try to get a better picture this afternoon.

Would it be a good idea to do a 50% water change?

what are your params?

 

[cybrook1421]

what are your params?

Not sure at the moment (at work). But I will do some tests when I get home. The QT is cycled so both ammonia and nitrite should be 0. Not sure about nitrate. Using Red Sea blue bucket.

Are there any other params you think I need?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

if 4 fish went right away into a 20 gallon, it likely overloaded the biofilter and that would be why the firefish died and stressed the other fish IMO. Fish should be added slower to small tank.

 

[rmorris_14]

Lmyph doesn't always have to look cottony

 

[SlugSnorter]

Not sure at the moment (at work). But I will do some tests when I get home. The QT is cycled so both ammonia and nitrite should be 0. Not sure about nitrate. Using Red Sea blue bucket.

Are there any other params you think I need?

SW fish are very sensitive to ammonia. all that new feeding and fish in a smaller tank like that can lead to an ammonia spike.

maybe take PH. Nitrite is not very important in SW. But it should be fine.

if using an API kit consider getting a redsea or sailfurt kit.

 

[cybrook1421]

I thought with the frequent small water changes, the cycled media and rock and suctioning out the uneaten food I would not have to deal with ammonia issues. I guess I was wrong and have now learned my lesson.

For the future, I know I should only get one or two fish at a time. Since these were my first fish and I have a 75gal display tank, I thought I could do the four at once.

I will double check ammonia when I get home. I did dose Prime this morning just in case it was ammonia. I didn't really have time to do anything else. The gills of the fish did not look red and the other two fish in there don't seem to be having the same symptoms. Could that mean it isn't water quality? Or are they just stronger and it has affected them less?

I have API for ammonia since I had it from freshwater and thought I would only need it during cycling. I might just get the redsea one to use in the future. I'll take PH too (have the hanna checker) and will see where that is at.

Lmyph doesn't always have to look cottony

Gotcha. OK. I will keep an eye out if they move/drop off or if they start growing.



Since all this seems based on water quality, should I do a water change after testing my params? If so, how much? I have SW water standing by that just needs to be heated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The spots do look a bit diffuse to be ich, but it isn’t lymphocystis.

The smaller clown seems to have swollen gills - maybe a developmental deformity?

Small clowns are tough, as said.

 

[cybrook1421]

The spots do look a bit diffuse to be ich, but it isn’t lymphocystis.

The smaller clown seems to have swollen gills - maybe a developmental deformity?

Small clowns are tough, as said.

I think so, yes. It looks very similar to this post and unfortunately has been the only post I have seen that has similar images. The gills are not red, so that is why I did not think ammonia.

I will make sure I am keeping up on water quality and healthy foods. Do you have any suggestions on other foods that I could soak with vita-chem that are small enough? Should I get some TDO size B2 since they do eat TDO very well or continue crushing up the food I have? I have frozen rotifers, brine shrimp, mysis and reef frenzy nano. They do not seem to go for the mysis when I feed the cardinalfish and I haven't tried any of the others yet.

I wish I would have noticed when I picked them out, but again, here we are and I will do everything I can to help the little thing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think so, yes. It looks very similar to this post and unfortunately has been the only post I have seen that has similar images. The gills are not red, so that is why I did not think ammonia.

I will make sure I am keeping up on water quality and healthy foods. Do you have any suggestions on other foods that I could soak with vita-chem that are small enough? Should I get some TDO size B2 since they do eat TDO very well or continue crushing up the food I have? I have frozen rotifers, brine shrimp, mysis and reef frenzy nano. They do not seem to go for the mysis when I feed the cardinalfish and I haven't tried any of the others yet.

I wish I would have noticed when I picked them out, but again, here we are and I will do everything I can to help the little thing.

Live baby brine and TDO is what I always fed clowns of this size.
Jay

 

[cybrook1421]

Two new videos from this afternoon. Baby clownfish actually looks better than it did this morning. White dots seem to be gone. I tried to do my best to keep it in focus, so apologies if it goes out of focus at some points.
Vid 1: https://photos.app.goo.gl/U4ZhBKezSqoiQjoMA
Vid 2: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WEWLPnRe6zmfsL9R8

Fed TDO again and had appetite and went after it. Potentially saw a little bullying from the bigger clown but not sure (you can see in the second video at 0:07)

You can see the jaw/gill deformity a lot better in the videos. I don't mind it at all as long as it survives and can have quality of life.

I'm going to do a 25% water change just to be safe. I would check ammonia but I dosed prime this morning so I'm not sure if the readings would be accurate.

If you see anything that I need to be concerned about please let me know. I will keep monitoring them all evening, but as of right now don't know if I need to medicate with anything.

 

[cybrook1421]

To close things out, unfortunately I came home from work today to the little one dead. No signs of disease or injury as far as I could tell. I think it maybe just starved as I had not been feeding it as often as just suggested on another forum and the deformity took a toll. The larger clownfish and cardinalfish still seem fine. I dosed prime as an ammonia preventative and will water change tomorrow.

I contacted the breeder and he said he will replace him and that usually he catches those things, but this one must have slipped through. I might give it a little and then go back to him when I am ready and the other surviving fish have graduated from quarantine. I will be doubly sure to check the fish I pick and make sure it is the same size or very slightly larger/smaller than the one I currently have.

When I picked up the dead fish, some white-ish slime came off. I am assuming this is normal and is just the bacteria collecting or the slime coat coming off.