Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

[pecan2phat]

Dr. Reef,
Have you tested ATM?

 

[Dr. Reef]

No ATM yet. Its on round 2.
I contacted 9 manufacturers including ATM and 8 of them responded with 7 sending me samples. Fluval refused to provide sample and on second try refused to even let me buy a fresh bottle from them.
8th company ATM never responded back to me at all.
I will simply buy it off shelf and run its test on group 2.
I am in last round of first group. Should be done in 1 weeks time. Next week will be starting group 2 that includes bio spira ATM Colony fluval cycle and microbe lift nite out 2.

 

[cracker]

Good Job dr, You have been at this for some time . I look forward to you final conclusion.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I just tested the tanks and here is what i got at day 4:

1. Fritz Turbo Start 900 tank is down to 0 for sure
2. Dr Tim One and Only tank is down to 0.5 ppm
3. Prodibio tank is still at 1 ppm
4. Seachem Seed tank is still at 1 ppm.
5. Control tank is 1 ppm.

i'll let it run for 3 more days completing 7 days then break and reset. This will be final round of group 1.
So far its Fritz 2 while Seed, Prodibio, Dr Tim are 0.

 

[Manose]

Dr. Reef I want to thank you for doing this much needed experiment. It has been real interesting how long it takes Dr. Tims to match the 0 ppm ammonia of the Fritz Turbo Start 900, as I was going to use Dr. Tim's for a new setup but it seems that Fritz turbo 900 is the way you go.
If only some online stores carried a guaranteed non dead Fritz Turbo Start 900, as they sent you samples straight from Fritz that have been kept in perfect conditions.

 

[Dr. Reef]

@Manose
So far i have visited 2 local and 3 out of state stores that carry Fritz Turbo Start 900 and all of them had it in a fridge and every store personal I talked to told me that it comes in cold storage during transport.
I got the same from @mikeyn at Fritz.
I am due to visit their facility after all testing is done and I'll write my final article then with pictures and small interview with someone most likely Mike at Fritz.
At that point I'll be able to confirm their storage and shipping process.
At retail level it's definitely been confirmed at local and 3 out of state retailers that they do receive it cold and keep it cold.
As further more proof when I will start my other testing using Seneye monitors I plan on ordering 2 bottles from online.
I plan on ordering one from very reputable online store and other from not so well known small online place so I can see for myself if they ship cold or not.

 

[Manose]

@Manose
So far i have visited 2 local and 3 out of state stores that carry Fritz Turbo Start 900 and all of them had it in a fridge and every store personal I talked to told me that it comes in cold storage during transport.
I got the same from @mikeyn at Fritz.
I am due to visit their facility after all testing is done and I'll write my final article then with pictures and small interview with someone most likely Mike at Fritz.
At that point I'll be able to confirm their storage and shipping process.
At retail level it's definitely been confirmed at local and 3 out of state retailers that they do receive it cold and keep it cold.
As further more proof when I will start my other testing using Seneye monitors I plan on ordering 2 bottles from online.
I plan on ordering one from very reputable online store and other from not so well known small online place so I can see for myself if they ship cold or not.

I am just saying this cause I do not have a store local that carries them on hand and was needing to go with the online order but have not seen any to order i.e. BRS,Marine Depot,Premium Aquatics.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I see. I am not sure which online retailer carries it as I haven't been that far into my study yet. Maybe @mikeyn can chime in and help you find a store.

 

[Lady Ninja]

Which country are you in? @Lady Ninja
After talking to a few Distributors I heard ATM is really popular in Europe with Fritz starting to catch up.

Norway
I first wanted to try to the mentioned, dr tims, bio spira or fritz. When I suddenly discovered atm in a local shop. My next purchase I will either stick to atm or maybe try fritz. The shipping from ebay/amazon on this products are the same or even higher than the product it self. Only a handful with international shipping.

 

[Dr. Reef]

@Manose
I did a quick web search and found 2 places right off the bat
www.saltwateraquarium.com
www.4fishes.com

 

[Dr. Reef]

@Lady Ninja
Awesome, my brother and sister both live in Oslo. It's a small world. I visit every year. Next time I am in Oslo I'll pm you.

I haven't tested ATM yet so I can't comment on how it will perform. It's due soon for testing in next week or two.

This is something I keep hearing from many international hobbyist and some US based hobbyist as well that Fritz is harder to find.
Hopefully Fritz can make it's product more accessible all over US and abroad soon.

 

[squampton]

I am just saying this cause I do not have a store local that carries them on hand and was needing to go with the online order but have not seen any to order i.e. BRS,Marine Depot,Premium Aquatics.

https://www.baybridgeaquarium.com/products/fritzzyme-turbo-start-900-saltwater-free-shipping

https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/aquarium-supplies/bacteria/turbostart-live-nitrifying/

First link says they ship in a cooler with ice pack, not sure about algae barn. (Note never ordered from either place,)

 

[Manose]

https://www.baybridgeaquarium.com/products/fritzzyme-turbo-start-900-saltwater-free-shipping

https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/aquarium-supplies/bacteria/turbostart-live-nitrifying/

First link says they ship in a cooler with ice pack, not sure about algae barn. (Note never ordered from either place,)

Thank you so much!! I will call them and see how they go about shipping.

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...lect-and-compare-answers.472919/#post-5222953


Please take anything garnered from the testing thread and make speculations in that thread about the nature of filter bac

concepts tester thread

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Dr. Reef, how much of the bacterial product did you use in the tests? Did you use the same amount, 6ml of Fritz, Dr Tim's, etc. I was wondering because it looks like the concentrations of each product are different. If you take Fritz and Dr. Tim's for example, a 1 oz bottle of Fritz treats 25 gal where a 2 oz bottle of Dr. Tim's only treats 30 gal. If you base the dosage off of that, you would need 6 ml of Fritzyme 900 and you would need 10 ml of Dr Tim's in order to treat the tanks equally. Dr. Tim's also states that for best results, use the entire bottle. This may be due to the tendency of the bacteria settling to the bottom of the bottle, which you seemed to experience.

Edit: Just found where you stated the dosing amount. Dr. Tim's states that 10 ml per 10 gal is a minimum dose. The 60 ml bottle is for a 30 gal tank. If you are using the fact that 30 ml of Fritzyme 900 is for a 25 gal tank as stated on the bottle, wouldn't you use the same ratio of 60 ml for a 30 gal tank as stated on the Dr Tim's bottle instead of the minimum dosing amount that Dr. Tim's states. Especially since Fritz doesn't give a minimum dosing amount.

 

[sawyer010]

you did a good job, i just wonder what is difference between Fritz fritzzyme turbostart 900 and fritz 9,and have you tested fritz 9 as well?thanks

 

[mikeyn]

you did a good job, i just wonder what is difference between Fritz fritzzyme turbostart 900 and fritz 9,and have you tested fritz 9 as well?thanks

FritzZyme 9 and TurboStart 900 contain the same bacteria, just different concentrations. TurboStart 900 is ~ 10X stronger FZ9.

 

[Amoo]

FritzZyme 9 and TurboStart 900 contain the same bacteria, just different concentrations. TurboStart 900 is ~ 10X stronger FZ9.

One of the questions posed in this thread, that I think all of us have had, is the effect of temperature on the bacteria.

I know you guys offer 9000 refrigerated only and regular 9 is offered "off the shelf". Can you comment of the efficacy difference due to possible temperature swings related to the non-refrigerated product?

 

[mikeyn]

One of the questions posed in this thread, that I think all of us have had, is the effect of temperature on the bacteria.

I know you guys offer 9000 refrigerated only and regular 9 is offered "off the shelf". Can you comment of the efficacy difference due to possible temperature swings related to the non-refrigerated product?

We are actually conducting new shelf stability studies on our nitrifying products, honestly they are tougher than we once thought. Extreme temps do negatively affect nitrifiers, but does it "kill" them? Probably not entirely, but it does knock them back enough that adding them doesn't make much of a difference from cycling by adding nothing. We do our best to ship fresh product in a manner that bets guarantees viability to our customers.

 

[mikeyn]

@Dr. Reef, how much of the bacterial product did you use in the tests? Did you use the same amount, 6ml of Fritz, Dr Tim's, etc. I was wondering because it looks like the concentrations of each product are different. If you take Fritz and Dr. Tim's for example, a 1 oz bottle of Fritz treats 25 gal where a 2 oz bottle of Dr. Tim's only treats 30 gal. If you base the dosage off of that, you would need 6 ml of Fritzyme 900 and you would need 10 ml of Dr Tim's in order to treat the tanks equally. Dr. Tim's also states that for best results, use the entire bottle. This may be due to the tendency of the bacteria settling to the bottom of the bottle, which you seemed to experience.

Edit: Just found where you stated the dosing amount. Dr. Tim's states that 10 ml per 10 gal is a minimum dose. The 60 ml bottle is for a 30 gal tank. If you are using the fact that 30 ml of Fritzyme 900 is for a 25 gal tank as stated on the bottle, wouldn't you use the same ratio of 60 ml for a 30 gal tank as stated on the Dr Tim's bottle instead of the minimum dosing amount that Dr. Tim's states. Especially since Fritz doesn't give a minimum dosing amount.

These are biological products, and every system is different We determined a dosage that would guarantee success for the majority of scenarios. Sure, we could say 1oz TurboStart treat 250 gallons and it would do "something", but enough to make a difference? Probably not. We want FritzZyme to sell because it works and leads to success, not because we have the best price point and claim to treat some ridiculous volume of water. You get what you pay for. Thanks!