Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

[Porpoise Hork]

Also i need help designing study, How copper effects the bacteria. I am not sure how to test this. I need ideas please.

I can tell you what i observed with setting up my emergency 10g QT tank with Cupramine and dosing SeaChem Stability. The ionic copper did not impede the bacteria in Stability with cycling the tank. It took 8 total days from the initial start of the QT tank before the ammonia level was able to maintain a zero reading without water changes.

10g tank bare bottom with only PVC pipe and small chunk of uncured dry rock in it.
Aqueon HOB filter and chemical media removed.
50 micron filter material used.
Tank filled with 10 gallons from existing tank.
Cuprimine dosed to .5 on API Copper test kit at tank start.

20% daily water changes with fresh mixed salt water were done as ammonia would climb to 0.5 after 25 hours with two medium sized clownfish in the tank.
After each water change Cpurimine was dosed to bring the copper level back to .5. Stability was dosed daily after each water change.

After the 8th day Ammonia remains at zero.
Nitrite never got over 1.0 after the 8th day.

Hope this helps.

 

[acabgd]

Any news?

 

[Dr. Reef]

Sorry not home for Christmas holidays. Will update when I get back.

 

[acabgd]

Merry Christmas to you and all the thread readers!

 

[Dr. Reef]

Likewise Merry Christmas to everyone one.

 

[Bos]

just started following the thread last week and been catching up. @Dr. Reef Thank you so much for doing this because there is limited resources on how things compare.

I'm from Hong Kong so those brands are not available. If there are plans to test other brands, I'd love to see how the following brands compare:
- prodibio biodigest
- equo bacterya
- brightwell MB7

Brightwell MB7 didn't work for me but apparently wwc use it to cycle their tanks.
Never used Prodibio
You can order Fritz Zyme 9 from amazon, delivered to Hong Kong, but they won't ship TurboStart 900. 9 is the shelf version, 900 the refrigerated version
Fritz Zyme 9 works to reduce ammonia, but my tank is stalled with Nitrite, maybe I need to re-dose.

 

[mikeyn]

Brightwell MB7 didn't work for me but apparently wwc use it to cycle their tanks.
Never used Prodibio
You can order Fritz Zyme 9 from amazon, delivered to Hong Kong, but they won't ship TurboStart 900. 9 is the shelf version, 900 the refrigerated version
Fritz Zyme 9 works to reduce ammonia, but my tank is stalled with Nitrite, maybe I need to re-dose.

FritzZyme will handle both ammonia and nitrite effectively.

 

[Dr. Reef]

...

 

[Dr. Reef]

Sorry for delays. I was out for holidays. I have all tanks broken down and bleached.
They are ready to be put together.
I have new floss to go into filter and dry sand along with new dry ceramic rings.
I'll have everything put together and ready to do round 2 in another day or so.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Happy New year to everyone and I hope this new year bring more joy and prosperity in everyone's lives.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I know this is not a trading or sponsor forum but its relevant to my study so I like to mention the following.

Eact tank I have required a float sensor for ATO purposes. I didnt have temporary setup for such and I reached out to @cromag27 at Octoaquatics.com one of our sponsors here for help.
I wanted magnetic acrylic float holder a two in one with 1 lower and 1 slightly higher so I can have a main and backup float sensors all on 1 mount.
He replied back to me right away and after few emails and discussions we came up with a design and he went to work on it.
I needed 20 of such setup and he got them done in 2-3 days.
I received them few days back and the quality is amazing I am really impressed with the professionalism with which these mounts were made.
I cant express enough on the quality and workmanship and price omg was unbelievably lower than I had shopped around.
Please thank him for helping in our study and I highly recommend if you are in market to buy acrylic products.
@cromag27 octoaquatics.com Thank you.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Fritz Zyme will take care of ammonia and nitrite.
Your cycling may have stalled and using more bacteria may overcome that. Give it a try and let us know.
Use a pinch or 2 or fish food in the tank for ammonia and carbon sources (though not required but might help)

 

[lakai]

So when does your fish store open?

 

[Philipgonzales3]

Ok, great. Thank you! I will do exactly this.

Well I have to say, bacteria in a bottle did not work for me or at least not as quickly as I hoped.

Now at day 26 of my 15 gallon freshwater cycle and day 24 of my 50 gallon SW cycle. Tanks are both kept at 79-80F.

For the saltwater I dosed 4ppm Dr. Tim's ammonia and then after a couple of hours I dosed one 4 ounce bottle of Dr. Tim's one and only for saltwater.

9 days for ammonia to drop to 1ppm and another 8 days to drop to 0ppm. Took a couple of days for nitrite to show up and at day 9 it shot up to >5ppm where it is still at.

In my FW tankk I dosed API quickstart. Whole 4 oz bottle on day zero. Added 4ppm Dr. Tim's Ammonia. Day 7 I added 2 oz of Dr. Tim's for freswhater as ammonia was still at 4ppm. Day 14 I add frirzyme 7 (12 oz, triple the dose). Finally at day 19 ammonia zeros out. Day 15 nitrite did show up and ramped up to >5ppm in a few days where it currently remains.

One interesting thing that happened is that my nitrates went from 10ppm from the source tap water for my FW tank to 5ppm now. Not sure how this is possible but one of the three products I added to the FW tank must have some denitryfying capabilities?

The nitrate test seems to be accurate as far as I am aware. I'm using the same reagent for both tanks (API freshwater master kit) but different cards.

Oh yeah almost forget on day 9 a light with alkaline batteries fell in the SW tank and I did a 30% water change and added 200ml of red sea carbon and swapped it out one week later. This explains why at day 9 my ammonia fell on the SW tank. Recently tested my tank with the Hanna copper checker and it showed 0ppm.

So for the products I tried and for my exact scenario I would say the bacteria didn't do much if at all. Maybe it was DOA? All 4 bottles. Just my luck.

Pics just because I was bored.

 

[MnFish1]

Well I have to say, bacteria in a bottle did not work for me or at least not as quickly as I hoped.

Now at day 26 of my 15 gallon freshwater cycle and day 24 of my 50 gallon SW cycle. Tanks are both kept at 79-80F.

For the saltwater I dosed 4ppm Dr. Tim's ammonia and then after a couple of hours I dosed one 4 ounce bottle of Dr. Tim's one and only for saltwater.

9 days for ammonia to drop to 1ppm and another 8 days to drop to 0ppm. Took a couple of days for nitrite to show up and at day 9 it shot up to >5ppm where it is still at.

In my FW tankk I dosed API quickstart. Whole 4 oz bottle on day zero. Added 4ppm Dr. Tim's Ammonia. Day 7 I added 2 oz of Dr. Tim's for freswhater as ammonia was still at 4ppm. Day 14 I add frirzyme 7 (12 oz, triple the dose). Finally at day 19 ammonia zeros out. Day 15 nitrite did show up and ramped up to >5ppm in a few days where it currently remains.

One interesting thing that happened is that my nitrates went from 10ppm from the source tap water for my FW tank to 5ppm now. Not sure how this is possible but one of the three products I added to the FW tank must have some denitryfying capabilities?

The nitrate test seems to be accurate as far as I am aware. I'm using the same reagent for both tanks (API freshwater master kit) but different cards.

Oh yeah almost forget on day 9 a light with alkaline batteries fell in the SW tank and I did a 30% water change and added 200ml of red sea carbon and swapped it out one week later. This explains why at day 9 my ammonia fell on the SW tank. Recently tested my tank with the Hanna copper checker and it showed 0ppm.

So for the products I tried and for my exact scenario I would say the bacteria didn't do much if at all. Maybe it was DOA? All 4 bottles. Just my luck.

Pics just because I was bored.

I dont think you followed the instructions for either product. but I may be wrong. nice tank

 

[Philipgonzales3]

I dont think you followed the instructions for either product. but I may be wrong. nice tank

Well I don't think the instructions are that hard but maybe *scratches head*.

The Fritz for the SW tank I put in the fridge. Said something about best to keep it refrigerated.

The Dr. Tim's 4oz bottle says to use at minimum 10ml for every 10 gallons of water. 4oz is almost 120ml I believe, yet the front of the bottle says treats up to 60 gallons. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe Dr Tim got his PHD in mathematics. I shook the bottle very well and emptied the whole bottle and even put the bottle under water and overturned it like 10 times to make sure I got all of it out.

I think all the products mentioned you can add fish right away so you got me there.

I followed the instructions at the link below for a fishless cycle. I started with 4ppm and now I dose to 2ppm when ammonia drops to 0. Most products don't tell you too add ammonia but seemed to be the consensus to do so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fi...nstructions-for-a-fishless-cycle.19627/?amp=1

Pretty much double dosed everything in the FW aquarium. All the products say you cannot overdose.

*Scratches head*

Well that's all I got. If I did it wrong I'm not sure how. But doesn't matter at this point I suppose.

I should have just started with frirzyme turbostart to begin with. Maybe if I ever need to cycle a new tank again. Not anytime soon likely as I will just seed my QT tank with media.

 

[MnFish1]

Well I don't think the instructions are that hard but maybe *scratches head*.

The Fritz for the SW tank I put in the fridge. Said something about best to keep it refrigerated.

The Dr. Tim's 4oz bottle says to use at minimum 10ml for every 10 gallons of water. 4oz is almost 120ml I believe, yet the front of the bottle says treats up to 60 gallons. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe Dr Tim got his PHD in mathematics. I shook the bottle very well and emptied the whole bottle and even put the bottle under water and overturned it like 10 times to make sure I got all of it out.

I think all the products mentioned you can add fish right away so you got me there.

I followed the instructions at the link below for a fishless cycle. I started with 4ppm and now I dose to 2ppm when ammonia drops to 0. Most products don't tell you too add ammonia but seemed to be the consensus to do so.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/ammonia-instructions-for-a-fishless-cycle.19627/?amp=1

Pretty much double dosed everything in the FW aquarium. All the products say you cannot overdose.

*Scratches head*

Well that's all I got. If I did it wrong I'm not sure how. But doesn't matter at this point I suppose.

I should have just started with frirzyme turbostart to begin with. Maybe if I ever need to cycle a new tank again. Not anytime soon likely as I will just seed my QT tank with media.

sorry didn't mean to criticize - is dr tims supposed to be dosed ro 4 ppm. is the freshwater product?>. I never dose ammonia thus way... was just curious if you followed the instructions

 

[Philipgonzales3]

sorry didn't mean to criticize - is dr tims supposed to be dosed ro 4 ppm. is the freshwater product?>. I never dose ammonia thus way... was just curious if you followed the instructions

No worries, you have a valid point. It's either all the bottles of bacteria I bought (4 in all) or it is my method.

The 4ppm was just a number I came up with from reading various articles. Some articles say do not exceed 5ppm other say do not exceed 8ppm of ammonia.

If you scroll down to @tankstudy 's post he says to dose 2ppm and to do water changes if Nitrite ever goes above 5.

Likely 4ppm was too much ammonia and I haven't done water changes to bring nitrite down.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-use-of-dr-tims-and-adding-livestock.274605/

It does look like Dr. Tim's tells you to add 2ppm. Well that probably explains it. Lol. Too bad these instructions didn't come with the product itself. Although the ammonia bottle does tell you 4 drops per 1 gallon for 2ppm of ammonia.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/brsinstructions/brsDrTims/DrTims_Fishless_Cycling_Recipe_BRS.pdf

I think I smothered the bacteria with too much ammonia. Then my nitrites are sky high, so a water change would/could help.

But at this point I will just let the trites fall on their own.

 

[Philipgonzales3]

No worries, you have a valid point. It's either all the bottles of bacteria I bought (4 in all) or it is my method.

The 4ppm was just a number I came up with from reading various articles. Some articles say do not exceed 5ppm other say do not exceed 8ppm of ammonia.

If you scroll down to @tankstudy 's post he says to dose 2ppm and to do water changes if Nitrite ever goes above 5.

Likely 4ppm was too much ammonia and I haven't done water changes to bring nitrite down.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-use-of-dr-tims-and-adding-livestock.274605/

It does look like Dr. Tim's tells you to add 2ppm. Well that probably explains it. Lol. Too bad these instructions didn't come with the product itself. Although the ammonia bottle does tell you 4 drops per 1 gallon for 2ppm of ammonia.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/brsinstructions/brsDrTims/DrTims_Fishless_Cycling_Recipe_BRS.pdf

I think I smothered the bacteria with too much ammonia. Then my nitrites are sky high, so a water change would/could help.

But at this point I will just let the trites fall on their own.

@Deinonych says the key is to keep ammonia below 4ppm. I think maybe 4 is just over the threshold of being too high. Just my guess anyway.


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-cycle-w-dr-tims.353788/page-2

Two people said it took them 7 or 8 weeks with Dr. Tim's.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anyone-have-an-extra-long-cycle-using-dr-tims.400126/

 

[brandon429]

On that other topic: it takes longer than four days right?



B