Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Discussion in 'Reef Aquarium Discussion' started by Dr. Reef, Jun 10, 2018.

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  1. Fritz TurboStart 900

    38.1%
  2. Fritz Zyme 9

    11.9%
  3. Dr Tim one and only

    28.6%
  4. Prodibio Startup

    2.4%
  5. Seachem Seed or Stability

    11.9%
  6. Bio Spira

    31.0%
  7. Microbe Lift Nite out 2

    2.4%
  8. ATM Colony

    4.8%
  9. Floval Cycle

    4.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    First off i like to apologize for not doing any updates, I was busy through the holidays.
    Anyways i have updates:

    I ran second and third round of study on the 4 bottles.
    1. Bio Spira
    2. Microbe Lift Nite out 2
    3. Atm Colony
    4. Fluval cycle

    I dosed each tank with 1 ppm of ammonium chloride.
    Following the manufacturer recommendation i dosed bacteria accordingly

    1. Bio Spira: 16.5 ml per 5 gal once
    2. Microbe Lift Nite out 2: 2.5 ml per 5 gal every other day
    3. ATM Colony: 47.2 ml per 5 gal once
    4. Fluval Cycle: 12.5 ml per 5 gal 1st day, 5 ml 2nd day and 5 ml 3rd day.

    On the Side study I had 2 tanks setup and dosed 1 tank with Fritz turbostart 900 kept in fridge and other with Turbostart 900 left at room temp for over 1 month now.

    Along with the Side study came the @brandon429 study as well. I will post results of everything in the next post.
     
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  2. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Round 2
    I dosed 1 ppm ammonia in each tank.
    Day 1,2,3 i didnt not see any reduction in ammonia except for a lighter shade than 1ppm on Bio Spira but not conclusive to call it 0.75ppm
    Day 4 Bio Spira was definitely 0.25ppm and by day 5 it was 0.
    Microbe lift, Atm Colony and Fluval cycle stalled at 1ppm like before stayed 1ppm till day 6 i placed 10 pellets of fish food in all tanks and next day most all of them were down to 0.25ppm to 0.5ppm and by day 7 down to 0.
     
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  3. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Round 3
    Dosed 1 ppm ammonia in each tank.
    Again Day 1,2,3 did not show any change in ammonia and by day 4 Bio Spira tank was down to .5ppm and by day 5 it was 0.
    Others did not show any change till day 5 and were stalled at 1 ppm.
    Thinking every 5th day i added food and ammonia went down and it might be the point where at day 5 bacteria start to take hold i let the tanks run another 2-3 days. At day 8 i have 1 ppm ammonia still on Atm colony, Microbe lift and fluval cycle.
    So on day 9 i placed fish food in the tanks and day 10 i had 0.25 on most all of them and by day 10 they were down to 0-0.25ppm
     
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  4. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    round 2 side study Fritz turbo start 900 cold vs room temp

    Dosed 1 ppm ammonia on day 1.
    By day 3 Both tanks were down to 0-0.25ppm. Day 4 they were both absolute 0.
    At this point room temp Fritz TurboStart 900 was right at 1 month at room temp.
     
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  5. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Round 3 Fritz TurboStart 900 cold vs room temp.

    By this time room temp bottle had been sitting in my garage for over 1.5 months.
    I dosed each tank with 1 ppm ammonia.
    Day 3 Cold Fritz tank was down to 0.25 and by day 4 absolutely 0.
    Room temp Fritz turbostart 900 took extra 2 days to hit 0.
    I dosed 0.5ppm after they both showed 0 at day 6.
    Cold tank bounced back and reduced 0.5ppm to 0 in 24 hrs while room temp Fritz struggled for another 2 days before it brought 0.5 to 0.
    My prediction is that now on room temp bacteria will struggle to cycle a tank in efficient time like its cold counterpart.
     
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  6. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    @brandon429 study.
    After round 2
    day 4 Fritz tanks (cold and room temp. Day 5 Bio spira were all showing 0 ppm.
    I changed 100% water in all 3 tanks and dosed 0.5 ppm ammonia.

    It took 24 hrs for Fritz turbostart 900 cold to reduce 0.5 to 0.
    Bio spira took 48 hrs to drop 0.5 to 0 while
    Fritz room temp bottle struggled to bring 0.5 to 0 over 3-4 days.
     
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  7. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Round 3 for Brandon Study

    Yesterday i had concluded the last round of this study.
    Results were exactly the same.

    Day 4-5 i had Fritz turbostart 900 cold and room temp along with Bio Spira were absolutely 0 ppm.
    Again i did 100% water change and dosed 0.5ppm ammonia.

    Here are the results broken down in 24 hrs intervals.

    1. Fritz turbostart 900 cold after 24 hrs of dosing 0.5ppm showed 0.25ppm
    2. Bio Spira after 24 hrs of dosing 0.5ppm showed just about 0.5ppm
    3. Fritz room temp showed 0.5ppm

    After 48 hrs:

    1. Fritz turbostart 900 was down to 0ppm
    2. Bio spira 0-0.25ppm
    3. Fritz room temp still at 0.5ppm

    Day 3

    Fritz cold 0.
    Bio spira 0.
    Fritz room temp 0.25ppm
     
  8. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2019 Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Expert Contributor

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    Great work!

    It may help to post findings in the first page for ease of access so people can make purchasing decisions easily.

    Thanks much, sir! :)
     
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  9. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Round 2 and 3 of main study conclusions.

    Products tested
    Bio Spira, Microbe Lift, Atm colony, Fluval cycle.

    In both rounds results were identical.
    Bio spira was the only product that reduced 1 ppm ammonia to 0 in 4 days or so. Other products stalled and did not show any reduction till a carbon source in form of fish food was added to tanks and then bacteria took over and dropped 1 ppm to 0 within 2-3 days.
     
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  10. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Thank you sir.
    I updated the results on post #3 on page 1.
     
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  11. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Side study conclusions on Fritz cold vs room temp Turbostart 900.

    By now i have tested Turbostart 900 a dozen times and if kept cold it has performed with exactly same predictable results no matter how much ammonia i subjected it to.
    Room temp bottle also performed well till 1.5 months of remaining at room temp sitting in my garage.
    After 6 weeks it can still cycle a tank a day or 2 later than cold bottle showing it still has enough bacteria to keep cycling but takes longer for it it repair and reproduce then colonize. Although after doing 100% water change it struggles to drop 0.5 ppm ammonia to 0 over multiple days showing its in repair mode than colonizing.
    I predict it will be good to cycle a tank uptil 8-9 weeks, Past that i assume it to be mostly dead and inefficient.
    Will conduct another test or 2 till it stops producing results so i can conclude its loss of colonizing properly.
     
  12. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    @brandon429 Study Conclusion

    After cycling 3 tanks 2 with Fritz and 1 with Bio Spira.
    I did 100% water change and redised 0.5ppm ammonia.
    By 24 hrs there was clear indication of reduction in Fritz and Bio spira tanks while room temp fritz struggled and performed a bit slower due to obvious reason.
    After 48 hrs 2 good products pretty much reduced the ammonia down to 0 while room temp fritz still showed ammonia.

    My conclusion about suspension cycling as brandon puts it, Bacteria starts to colonize and attach itself to sand/filter/rings etc soon after dosing (i am guessing 24 hrs) as after 48 hrs usually reducing 0.5 to 0.

    This brings me to another test that was already on my list to check.
    I am going to setup 2 tanks.
    After cycling do a 100% water change on both.
    Pour bacteria on Tank 1 in water after water change while pour bacteria directly on sand and rings before filling it back with water.
    This will show if there is a difference in time of cycling if poured directly on media where it colonizing compared to pouring in water.
     
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  13. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    After resetting tanks in next day or 2 i am going to conduct the following studies:

    1. TurboStart 900 cold vs room temp (now going at 8 weeks at room temp)
    2. Turbostart 900 vs Fritz Zyme 9 (shelf stable product)
    3. Pouring bacteria in water vs pouring on media directly
    4. Adding copper and its effects if measurable on bacteria and cycling.

    After these studies are concluded i will move on to Seneye monitor testing.
     
  14. brandon429

    brandon429 why did you put a reef in that R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    Well done thank you! I dont recall this aspect of microbiology being tested before in threads, a new angle revealed. How about nitrite performance in the same time/curious

    Just to reframe/clarify the work it was totally sterile substrate, dosed with bac and ammonia, changed out water in *2 days (no longer deposition time was given right? When you said the tanks were cycled I wasn't sure how long they stewed in the initial mix, max 4 days contact time was ideal)

    Then refilled, redosed ammonia, and in 24 hours it was zero is that right? Ammonia is what I cared most to know about / appreciate the info. Will relay the finding in our cycling thread.

    So the takeaway is that when dosed with bacteria, sterile substrates are fully cycled within one or two days (fritz verified so far) not even four days required. glad to see initial testing and thank you for the side study. Do you think all the bacteria options go that quickly or just fritz?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  15. Flippers4pups

    Flippers4pups Fins up since 1993 R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor Hospitality Award

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    @Dr. Reef, Thank you for the in depth study and results! I can now recommend with confidence your findings to other hobbyist! Great work and thank you!
     
  16. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Thank You @brandon429. I tested nitrites and nitrates as well during studies using only API test kits.
    After 3-4 days of cycling with bottle bacteria ammonia hit zero and a day before i saw a spike in nitrites upto 0.5-0.75ppm and then after ammonia and nitrites both hit 0 i saw nitrates around 50-80ppm.

    Yes all tanks were completely sterile with brand new dry sand and dry rings and new floss. tank and hob were bleached and air dried before resetting.
    Fritz turbostart 900 cold cycled the tank in 2 days and i changed water (100%) immediately after i tested 0ppm then dosed 0.5ppm and within 24-36 hrs ammonia had dropped down to 0ppm.

    My take is the same as your. Fritz turbostart can fully cycle a 5 gal tank with completely sterile media within 2 days. room temp bottle took 4 days and so did bio spira. Those 2 as well after 100% water change reduced 0.5ppm to 0 within 24-48 hrs.

    Out of 8 products tested i have found FRITZ TURBOSTART 900 to be the ONLY one to cycle the tanks this fast normally in a 5 gal tank about 2 days with ammonia as high as 8-10ppm. Followed by Bio Spira and Dr Tim that took a day to two extra days to reduce/cycle tank fully.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  17. Javamahn

    Javamahn Active Member

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    I started my 150 gallon, dry rock , Caribsea live sand with Fritz Turbostart 900 and Fritz Ammonium Chloride at 4 ppm and within 4 days it was 0 ppm and ready for fish. It is expensive compared to other products but in my estimate well worth the price for a fishless quick cycle.
     
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  18. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Thank you @Flippers4pups
    Out of 8 products, my conclusion so far is that Fritz TurboStart 900 is the fastest bacteria to cycle a 5 gal tank tested to reduced ammonia as high as 8-10 ppm down to 0 in 2 days.
    Bio Spira and Dr Tim one and only come second by cycling 5 gal tank with ammonia as high as 1.5ppm within 3-4 days.
    All other products tested did not cycle a sterile tank with ammonia dosed on their own, they needed help with addition of carbon source by adding either fish or fish food. This makes me assume these bacteria are heterotorphic sludge removers. I will be able to test this further with Seneye moniter study which is schecduled to happen soon as these studies are concluded.
     
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  19. brandon429

    brandon429 why did you put a reef in that R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    This helps move the time scale needle up a bit quicker in cycling full running tanks

    society wants faster completion not slower, though the going offer in reefing is to take everything slow. There's a real demand for quicker establishment, and not unethically but aquarists simply want to know available time options vs 30 days

    next time we have a tank move or upgrade in our cycling thread where a bunch of established animals need to move, fritz is clearly the go-to. Id trust it based on your findings in your work thread, excellent
     
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  20. Dr. Reef

    Dr. Reef Always at your service R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor

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    Very good info thank you for sharing. This further confirms my prediction (though i did not test on anything bigger than 5 gal test tanks) that Fritz can cycle a most common size hobbyist tank with ammonia 1-4ppm within 2-4 days.
     
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