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Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
Hard to trust an expired kit but I wouldn't be surprised if ammonia was down. In 1 test 8ppm was dropped to 0 in 3 to 4 days.
Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact
- Thread starter Dr. Reef
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Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
No ammonia, fish food. Sometimes bacteria needs carbon source and pure ammonia will not provide that.
Also check the pH and alkalinity.
If alkalinity is low it will stall the cycle.
Keep salinity low if you can about 1.018
Also check the pH and alkalinity.
If alkalinity is low it will stall the cycle.
Keep salinity low if you can about 1.018
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OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
OP
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Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
Yes a little hypo will speed up the cycle specially through nitrites stage.
Low alk will also stall the cycle.
Low alk will also stall the cycle.
* its always fun to tie in cycle analysis threads with what's going on the world regarding marine convention skip cycles/all tanks making a required start date on time without variance, and with the hundreds of fish-in cycles that happen every day due to the advancement of bottle bac.
This recent question showed on prior page ammonia moving down, thats the proofing for why fish in cycles always works. If fish were added here, nothing would go wrong/its tempting to call that the 2020 version of a complete cycle, when your starting bioload lives in clean water and progresses as if all three params are lining up perfectly on API.
two cycling factions are happening in the hobby: 1. bioload control as the final say in cycling, which ALWAYS corresponds with the ability to pre-verify ammonia moving down (zero not required, there are no zeros for ammonia in reefing for any reef) VS 2. the classic testers who require all 3 params to line up, and would not make any convention start dates on time (nitrite would hold em up, or lack of hard zero ammonia per API) and who could also control a full tank of bioload even though all three params aren't classically lining up.
whats your take on that dichotomy Dr Reef, if he adds fish above, it lives, proofed by ammonia going down at rates faster than some fish will spike back
faulty fritz would not move ammonia down at all.
Its awesome how a bunch of new reefers dumping in clowns and bottle bac are redefining what a completed cycle is for us. I can't recall one single fish-in cycling post that didn't work (cloudy water, smelly, dead fish within 2 days)
faction 1 is having all the fun, of this Im certain.
This recent question showed on prior page ammonia moving down, thats the proofing for why fish in cycles always works. If fish were added here, nothing would go wrong/its tempting to call that the 2020 version of a complete cycle, when your starting bioload lives in clean water and progresses as if all three params are lining up perfectly on API.
two cycling factions are happening in the hobby: 1. bioload control as the final say in cycling, which ALWAYS corresponds with the ability to pre-verify ammonia moving down (zero not required, there are no zeros for ammonia in reefing for any reef) VS 2. the classic testers who require all 3 params to line up, and would not make any convention start dates on time (nitrite would hold em up, or lack of hard zero ammonia per API) and who could also control a full tank of bioload even though all three params aren't classically lining up.
whats your take on that dichotomy Dr Reef, if he adds fish above, it lives, proofed by ammonia going down at rates faster than some fish will spike back
faulty fritz would not move ammonia down at all.
Its awesome how a bunch of new reefers dumping in clowns and bottle bac are redefining what a completed cycle is for us. I can't recall one single fish-in cycling post that didn't work (cloudy water, smelly, dead fish within 2 days)
faction 1 is having all the fun, of this Im certain.
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OP
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Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
After visiting Fritz manufacturing facility in Dallas TX and talking to their Lead lab tech and sales team, You CAN take a brand new tank, setup your scape and fill it up and dose bacteria and add fish.
So there is no need of a cycle if you follow their guide line.
I have yet to test this, That is why the test i conducted earlier are good to know what product work and how fast but not ideally like the manufacturers suggest.
Thus my new upcoming study, in which i will do just that, dose bacteria and add fish will get us better results.
Adding 1-2 ppm ammonia and dosing bacteria then watching is go down is an old school method no different to what we used to do by placing a deli shrimp in tank and watching ammonia come down to 0. Here we replaced a deli shrimp with ammonium chloride and boosted the natural occurring with bottle bac.
Fish do not produce 1-2ppm ammonia in one shot. Even if you had a heavy fish load they wont produce 1-2ppm in one shot. They will produce a lot of ammonia but gradual and over time. Thus giving bacteria to catch up and keep converting it to nitrites.
If you follow what manufacturers say, dose bacteria and add fish, will work. Because fish added to a sterile tank has nothing toxic to worry about and small amounts of ammonia its producing is rapidly converted to nitrites by bacteria in bottle which most all of them in my opinion have sludge remover heterotrophic bacteria and some stands of true nitrifying bacteria.
Some manufacturers have more nitrifying and less heterotrophic and vice versa.
What i think is happening is when we add bottle bac, which has both heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, small amounts of ammonia being produced by fish are being converted to nitrites fast by heterotrophic bacteria while nitrifying bacteria which takes time to colonize gets ahead start to establish colonies and thus over time competing against they overtake and become the primary beneficial bacteria.
In theory it works, On practical basis i am sure it will also work. So just to put this to rest i will conduct the test like manufacturers recommend. I have 5 Seneye units gifted by Seneye for this test which can monitor live ammonia levels (NH3) every 5 min.
From scientific data we know ammonia is not harmful till it reaches 0.05ppm (NH3)
so i will pull fish before the trend seems to suggest its increasing to that alarming level and consider product a fail.
Stay tuned.
So there is no need of a cycle if you follow their guide line.
I have yet to test this, That is why the test i conducted earlier are good to know what product work and how fast but not ideally like the manufacturers suggest.
Thus my new upcoming study, in which i will do just that, dose bacteria and add fish will get us better results.
Adding 1-2 ppm ammonia and dosing bacteria then watching is go down is an old school method no different to what we used to do by placing a deli shrimp in tank and watching ammonia come down to 0. Here we replaced a deli shrimp with ammonium chloride and boosted the natural occurring with bottle bac.
Fish do not produce 1-2ppm ammonia in one shot. Even if you had a heavy fish load they wont produce 1-2ppm in one shot. They will produce a lot of ammonia but gradual and over time. Thus giving bacteria to catch up and keep converting it to nitrites.
If you follow what manufacturers say, dose bacteria and add fish, will work. Because fish added to a sterile tank has nothing toxic to worry about and small amounts of ammonia its producing is rapidly converted to nitrites by bacteria in bottle which most all of them in my opinion have sludge remover heterotrophic bacteria and some stands of true nitrifying bacteria.
Some manufacturers have more nitrifying and less heterotrophic and vice versa.
What i think is happening is when we add bottle bac, which has both heterotrophic and nitrifying bacteria, small amounts of ammonia being produced by fish are being converted to nitrites fast by heterotrophic bacteria while nitrifying bacteria which takes time to colonize gets ahead start to establish colonies and thus over time competing against they overtake and become the primary beneficial bacteria.
In theory it works, On practical basis i am sure it will also work. So just to put this to rest i will conduct the test like manufacturers recommend. I have 5 Seneye units gifted by Seneye for this test which can monitor live ammonia levels (NH3) every 5 min.
From scientific data we know ammonia is not harmful till it reaches 0.05ppm (NH3)
so i will pull fish before the trend seems to suggest its increasing to that alarming level and consider product a fail.
Stay tuned.
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I added some pure ethanol I cut down to 70%.
Had a bloom for a whole day. Expected.
I added 1.5 ml of pure ammonia.
Cleared up the bloom.
Then I added some more dry rock.
Will test in a bit.
Do people add different brands/types of bacteria at this stage?
Or would that be a waste of money?
Had a bloom for a whole day. Expected.
I added 1.5 ml of pure ammonia.
Cleared up the bloom.
Then I added some more dry rock.
Will test in a bit.
Do people add different brands/types of bacteria at this stage?
Or would that be a waste of money?
OP
OP
Dr. Reef
www.drreefsquarantinedfish.com
No need to add different types of bacteria as they will be fighting to become dominant rather than converting.
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