Bacterial bloom and low nutrient in DT after prazipro

[alex37310]

I had to run prazipro in my display, after the second dose It started getting a bacterial bloom, tank looks really cloudy, 10-15inch visibility…

Tank is about 5mo old, I have a dozen frags, mainly montis with zoas hammers cyphastrea and Favia.

I recently had coral issue and Dino’s due to high phosphate/nitrate (2ppm/40ppm)

I had finally my number back in check at 0.06 and 10-15ppm but since the bacteria bloom I ended up with 0 for both a couple days ago and out of worry for my corals, have been heavy feeding, I got phosphates to 0.03 but nitrate still at 0 so I added neo nitro.

I also did a 25% water change yesterday, my magnesium has been pretty low at 1180mg and am starting to try to raise that up 10ppm daily. Current alk 10dkh, calcium 115 and ph 8, salinity 1.025, temp 77…

Anyway, I’ve been debating what to do…
I’ve been leaving skimmers cup off to help oxygenate the water, fish seem ok but hiding more and maybe a bit confused. But then I also put it back last night to maybe remove some of the stuff in the water, but I’m worried about dropping my nitrate and phosphate to 0 and either kill my corals or get dino or cyano or even worst, all of the above lol. Please help a stressed out man

 

[alex37310]

Bump #fishmedics @vetteguy53081 not sure who’s the most qualified to help me out here ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How long has it been cloudy?

With skimmer cup off, does that mean skimmate is not removed? I'd add it back that is a good way to remove bacteria.

If it continues too long, a UV will clear it up.

In general, however, visible bacteria in the water is not harmful unless you drive O2 or nutrients too low.

The prazipro formulation is an organic carbon compound that can drive bacteria.

Dosing N and P is appropriate, especially with low O2 concerns (making feeding more less desirable). When those products run out, I recommend food grade products, such as ammonium bicarbonate,, sodium nitrate, and sodium phosphate. They are less expensive, can be more concentrated, and carry a purity guarantee the commercial products lack.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had to run prazipro in my display, after the second dose It started getting a bacterial bloom, tank looks really cloudy, 10-15inch visibility…

Tank is about 5mo old, I have a dozen frags, mainly montis with zoas hammers cyphastrea and Favia.

I recently had coral issue and Dino’s due to high phosphate/nitrate (2ppm/40ppm)

I had finally my number back in check at 0.06 and 10-15ppm but since the bacteria bloom I ended up with 0 for both a couple days ago and out of worry for my corals, have been heavy feeding, I got phosphates to 0.03 but nitrate still at 0 so I added neo nitro.

I also did a 25% water change yesterday, my magnesium has been pretty low at 1180mg and am starting to try to raise that up 10ppm daily. Current alk 10dkh, calcium 115 and ph 8, salinity 1.025, temp 77…

Anyway, I’ve been debating what to do…
I’ve been leaving skimmers cup off to help oxygenate the water, fish seem ok but hiding more and maybe a bit confused. But then I also put it back last night to maybe remove some of the stuff in the water, but I’m worried about dropping my nitrate and phosphate to 0 and either kill my corals or get dino or cyano or even worst, all of the above lol. Please help a stressed out man

Dino may have played a role but the glycol content in prazi may be causing the cloudiness. How is tank being filtered?
The skimmer cup off is for a couple of days to prevent foam in-fractionation .
Please point of sale video or t least pics under white light intensity to see what milkiness you are referring to

 

[alex37310]

Dino may have played a role but the glycol content in prazi may be causing the cloudiness. How is tank being filtered?
The skimmer cup off is for a couple of days to prevent foam in-fractionation .
Please point of sale video or t least pics under white light intensity to see what milkiness you are referring to

Will do when I get home, skimmer off was because I worried about the oxygen getting depleted by the bloom, but I do have a good surface agitation, I’ll show you all that tonight. Filtration is through sump with 200micron sock, swc 150 blk skimmer, Cheeto and gracilaria refugium, black filter pad before return.

 

[alex37310]

How long has it been cloudy?

With skimmer cup off, does that mean skimmate is not removed? I'd add it back that is a good way to remove bacteria.

If it continues too long, a UV will clear it up.

In general, however, visible bacteria in the water is not harmful unless you drive O2 or nutrients too low.

The prazipro formulation is an organic carbon compound that can drive bacteria.

Dosing N and P is appropriate, especially with low O2 concerns (making feeding more less desirable). When those products run out, I recommend food grade products, such as ammonium bicarbonate,, sodium nitrate, and sodium phosphate. They are less expensive, can be more concentrated, and carry a purity guarantee the commercial products lack.

Correct, I took it off because I worried about not having enough oxygen after the bloom, but I also have a decent surface agitation so maybe it’s not necessary. I also was worried about dropping my already low nutrients with the skimmer and ending up with more upset/dead corals and potentially dino/cyano

 

[alex37310]

How long has it been cloudy?

With skimmer cup off, does that mean skimmate is not removed? I'd add it back that is a good way to remove bacteria.

If it continues too long, a UV will clear it up.

In general, however, visible bacteria in the water is not harmful unless you drive O2 or nutrients too low.

The prazipro formulation is an organic carbon compound that can drive bacteria.

Dosing N and P is appropriate, especially with low O2 concerns (making feeding more less desirable). When those products run out, I recommend food grade products, such as ammonium bicarbonate,, sodium nitrate, and sodium phosphate. They are less expensive, can be more concentrated, and carry a purity guarantee the commercial products lack.

I didn’t get the part about the N and P sorry, is that the name of a product to use?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Correct, I took it off because I worried about not having enough oxygen after the bloom, but I also have a decent surface agitation so maybe it’s not necessary. I also was worried about dropping my already low nutrients with the skimmer and ending up with more upset/dead corals and potentially dino/cyano

I’m not sure skimmers aerate more by removing the collection cup.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I didn’t get the part about the N and P sorry, is that the name of a product to use?

There are commercial and diy products one can use to dose to bring up nitrate and phosphate.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m not sure skimmers aerate more by removing the collection cup.

Youre right- they dont. Reason for cup removal with prazi is that the skimmer will go nuts the first 48 hours with the presence of glycol in the prazi solution

 

[alex37310]

Ohhhh good to know! So skimmer needs to go on for bacterial removal and I need to keep testing my phosphate and nitrate and dose commercial or diy product to keep them in check? Nothing else to do for the bacteria? I do not have a uv nor can I afford one right now.. tank has been cloudy for 4 days now

 

[alex37310]

How long has it been cloudy?

With skimmer cup off, does that mean skimmate is not removed? I'd add it back that is a good way to remove bacteria.

If it continues too long, a UV will clear it up.

In general, however, visible bacteria in the water is not harmful unless you drive O2 or nutrients too low.

The prazipro formulation is an organic carbon compound that can drive bacteria.

Dosing N and P is appropriate, especially with low O2 concerns (making feeding more less desirable). When those products run out, I recommend food grade products, such as ammonium bicarbonate,, sodium nitrate, and sodium phosphate. They are less expensive, can be more concentrated, and carry a purity guarantee the commercial products lack.

So sodium nitrate to dose nitrate I assume and sodium phosphate to dose phosphate but what’s ammonium bicarbonate for?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So sodium nitrate to dose nitrate I assume and sodium phosphate to dose phosphate but what’s ammonium bicarbonate for?

It’s a potentially better way to provide nitrogen to corals than is nitrate:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[alex37310]

Thank you so much guys!

 

[alex37310]

So it’s looking worse tonight, haven’t tested water yet but it’s more cloudy and sand bed is heavily spreading with what I believe was a bit of diatom left from the bloom I had from dosing silicate against SCA dino.
Would you recommend doing the third dose of prazipro? @Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 @Randy Holmes-Farley

Last dose (the second one) was on nov. 30th, so 4 days ago

 

[alex37310]

Video of the tank

 

[vetteguy53081]

Video of the tank

This looks more like an algae bloom instead of bacterial. Pics speak a thousand words. Thank you and this is easier to picture now and is both surface/film algae and algae bloom. The bedding itself appears to have started as diatoms associated with newer tank and was then dominated with algae. Some questions below in Bold. . . . .
The film algae itself is likely caused by Bright white intensity and a few suspects listed below. This will take a few days to defeat but some items to address are :
Filtration : I can assume you have a Non-reef ready tank and are using basic filtration with use of power filter? The issue with using power filter is that it is your primary source of filtration which is mechanical and you want to have mechanical , biological and chemical to mange proper water quality. The power filter will polish water and trap particles via the cartridge.
Chemical is what traps and breaks down chemical compounds such as feces and uneaten food often accomplished carbon and GFO
Biological is what utilizes the natural process of biological filtration such as use of ceramic nuggets, bio blocks, and microscopic bacteria surfaces.
You are lacking some forms of necessary filtration. A hang on back refugium, even a hang on skimmer such as Ice cap K1or K2 series will work flawlessly and help with overall waste removal.

Lighting: This looks like it may be a basic strip light but what light are you actually using ? Is it one in which you are able to adjust intensities?

Water: Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Additional light: Is this tank by chance at or near a window?

Phosphate: How are you testing phosphate? Normally with this level of algae, you will have a level of phosphate that is elevated- Not zero

 

[alex37310]

This looks more like an algae bloom instead of bacterial. Pics speak a thousand words. Thank you and this is easier to picture now and is both surface/film algae and algae bloom. The bedding itself appears to have started as diatoms associated with newer tank and was then dominated with algae. Some questions below in Bold. . . . .
The film algae itself is likely caused by Bright white intensity and a few suspects listed below. This will take a few days to defeat but some items to address are :
Filtration : I can assume you have a Non-reef ready tank and are using basic filtration with use of power filter? The issue with using power filter is that it is your primary source of filtration which is mechanical and you want to have mechanical , biological and chemical to mange proper water quality. The power filter will polish water and trap particles via the cartridge.
Chemical is what traps and breaks down chemical compounds such as feces and uneaten food often accomplished carbon and GFO
Biological is what utilizes the natural process of biological filtration such as use of ceramic nuggets, bio blocks, and microscopic bacteria surfaces.
You are lacking some forms of necessary filtration. A hang on back refugium, even a hang on skimmer such as Ice cap K1or K2 series will work flawlessly and help with overall waste removal.

Lighting: This looks like it may be a basic strip light but what light are you actually using ? Is it one in which you are able to adjust intensities?

Water: Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Additional light: Is this tank by chance at or near a window?

Phosphate: How are you testing phosphate? Normally with this level of algae, you will have a level of phosphate that is elevated- Not zero

Thanks for the response @vetteguy53081 !

So little bit of infos to help you understand where I’m coming from:

Tank want through cycle, had a couple diatom blooms that fell through after a few days without any issues, then it started turning green on the glass and the rocks, then dino started. At that point I got a first full water test in store and got a microscope and followed guidance from Mack’s reef dinoflagelate guide. I hadn’t been doing much water change at all, maybe once a month if that. Nitrates were 40 and phosphate 2ppm. I worked on dropping these numbers this past month to 10ppm nitrate and 0.06ppm phosphate. Dinos ended up being SCA so I followed the guide to dose silicate to about 3ppm to get a diatom bloom, at the same time I had a bloom in copepods (all over my display tank, it was insane) I’ve been dosing a mix of live phytoplanktons every other days, microbacter7 every other day as well, did 3 weekly dose of eco balance and recently did 3 weekly dose of waste away (after the eco balance was done). All this has helped me get rid of the dino and my tank was starting to look better with just a bit of diatom on the sand new the wall that sometimes gets a bit of direct sunlight (if the kids mess with the curtains). Green on the rock has started to recess a bit too and doesn’t look like it’s getting worse or spreading, but then after the prazipro dose #2 the water turned very very cloudy, I know it looks like the cloudiness is green but I believe it is clear and all the algae on the rock and wall is what makes it seem that way.

My lights are 2 hanged popbloom rl90, they compare to the RedSea ReefLight 90 and are pretty good based on the research I did on them, they have 4 programmable channel, I will link my current program. I was running a bit more white the past week (closer to 30%) but recently moved it down more after tweeting a bit for my coral demand. I just finished a ramp up as well/acclimatation following the period of lower light I had during dino.

My 55g tank has a drilled overflow box dropping to my 29g sump with 200micron socks and skimmer as well as its own refugium chamber with a couple live rock and cheats+ gracilaria macro algae before it returns to the tank.

I use instant ocean reef salt that I mix in a brute can with my 5 stage rodi, recently changed all mambrane and filters, read 2tds before and 0 after DI resin, color changing is only like 5% use 10% at most, no chloramine in my city water either.

I’m testing phosphate with the Hanna ULR checker, I make sure to wipe the glass every time I touch the cuvette and use ALL the powder. I also store them with Rodi water in when not in use to avoid buildup. All other testing are done with Salifer. I have a smart temperature sensor monitoring for swings in the overflow box and temp range is 77-80F

 

[alex37310]

Light schedule

 

[alex37310]

I’ve run rowaphos in reactor to remove phosphate btw. And here is a full setup pic.