Bad method, bad luck, or "it is what it is"?

Fringe09

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Hi fellow reefers. Few months into this great yet at times stressful hobby.

I'm losing a lot of fish in QT. As the titles reads; bad method, bad luck, or "it is what it is"?

I've quarantined fish three times now. Each time in the same 20 gallon tank which PVC pipes, HOB filter, powerhead, and a heater.

1st time. 24 hour old saltwater. Drip acclimated. 2 firefish (purple and red) and 1 cardinal. 1st firefish jumped out one day shy of two weeks. The rest made it. In my DT now and thriving.

2nd time. Freshly made saltwater and then seeded with Seachem Stability for 7 days. Drip acclimated. Three firefish (2 purple and 1 red). All three died within three days.

3rd time (currently). Took water from DT. Acclimated by floating bag for 20 minutes then adding small amounts of tank water every 7 minutes for about 45 minutes into the bag. 2 blennies. 1 dead. 2nd one still eating. Dead blenny was a bicolor. White marking on the body from the moment I put him in the tank.

Ammonia was tested all three time every other day using Red Sea kit and Seachem ammonia alert. I bought all the from the same LFS.
 

EriksOasis

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I know this might not sound like a good question to you but is your qt tank cycled?
 
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Fringe09

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I know this might not sound like a good question to you but is your qt tank cycled?

No on the first two times. Used water from DT on the third method which of course was cycled.

From my understanding, not having a cycled QT just requires changing of water more often to keep ammonia down. Ammonia was 0 when the fish died on the second day.
 

Humblefish

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Symptoms of disease are not always visible. Have you noticed any of these behavioral symptoms of disease?
  • Reduced or complete loss of appetite
  • Heavy breathing, scratching, flashing, head twitching, yawning, erratic swimming behavior
  • Swimming into the flow of a powerhead
  • Acting reclusive / appearing to be sensitive to light
 

4FordFamily

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No on the first two times. Used water from DT on the third method which of course was cycled.

From my understanding, not having a cycled QT just requires changing of water more often to keep ammonia down. Ammonia was 0 when the fish died on the second day.
Water is not cycled, the bacteria do not live in the water column (marginally). Thus, you'll need sponge or something similar for them to colonize from another tank for best results.
 

cmcoker

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How big of a difference was the salinity in your quarantine vs the LFS water?

I would start adjusting quarantine water to match the bag water, temp acclimate then transfer fish, no drip needed.
You can then raise salinity in the qt tank slowly over a week or so. Some stores ru n much lower salinity than we do at home. I wouldn't increase specific gravity more than .002 in 24hr period.
 

EriksOasis

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Find out what your most visited reef store runs their salinity at and use that as your qt tank then once fish are qt slowly adjust them to your display salinity. Or if it’s mt far off and an acceptable range use it for your display as well. Another thing what is your salinity yours could be off.
 

ngoodermuth

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How big of a difference was the salinity in your quarantine vs the LFS water?

I would start adjusting quarantine water to match the bag water, temp acclimate then transfer fish, no drip needed.
You can then raise salinity in the qt tank slowly over a week or so. Some stores ru n much lower salinity than we do at home. I wouldn't increase specific gravity more than .002 in 24hr period.

+1
 
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Fringe09

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Symptoms of disease are not always visible. Have you noticed any of these behavioral symptoms of disease?
  • Reduced or complete loss of appetite
  • Heavy breathing, scratching, flashing, head twitching, yawning, erratic swimming behavior
  • Swimming into the flow of a powerhead
  • Acting reclusive / appearing to be sensitive to light

I'll focus on the 3rd (current QT). Two Blennies. Bicolor and Flametail. Bicolor died on second day.
  • Reduced or complete loss of appetite
    • Yes
  • Heavy breathing, scratching, flashing, head twitching, yawning, erratic swimming behavior
    • Heavy breathing
  • Swimming into the flow of a powerhead.
    • No.
  • Acting reclusive / appearing to be sensitive to light
    • Stayed in one position
 
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Fringe09

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Water is not cycled, the bacteria do not live in the water column (marginally). Thus, you'll need sponge or something similar for them to colonize from another tank for best results.

Forgot to mention. Yes, sponge was placed in DT sump for a week.
 
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Fringe09

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How big of a difference was the salinity in your quarantine vs the LFS water?

I would start adjusting quarantine water to match the bag water, temp acclimate then transfer fish, no drip needed.
You can then raise salinity in the qt tank slowly over a week or so. Some stores ru n much lower salinity than we do at home. I wouldn't increase specific gravity more than .002 in 24hr period.

I run 1.023 which is the same as my LFS.

You are suggesting to temp acclimate, transfer fish, and then raise salinity if needed in QT slowly? This is a new method I have not heard before.
 

Humblefish

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Forgot to mention. Yes, sponge was placed in DT sump for a week.

IME; it takes at least a month in the DT sump for nitrifying bacteria to colonize a sponge enough to be useful for biological filtration.

You are suggesting to temp acclimate, transfer fish, and then raise salinity if needed in QT slowly? This is a new method I have not heard before.

So long as SG matches between QT and the bag water, you can just float the bag (to temperature acclimate) and then release the fish into QT without any drip acclimation procedure. This limits the possibility of ammonia exposure from the bag water. You then would top off using saltwater (instead of RODI) until SG in QT matches that of your DT.

Heavy breathing, scratching, flashing, head twitching, yawning, erratic swimming behavior
  • Heavy breathing
Unless it is due to recent exertion, heavy breathing in a fish typically means there is an environmental problem (e.g. ammonia, toxin in the water) or a parasite/worm is afflicting their gills.
 
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Fringe09

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Another thing to consider in regards to the filefish is that they don't always tolerate conspecifics and they are super spooky so a lid is a must. Did you ever notice any aggression between them?

There was no aggression. First one died on day two. The other two died on day three.
 
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Fringe09

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I'm starting to understand why a very small percentage of hobbyist quarantine their fish before adding to DT.

At minimum the DT is cycled, parameters in check, larger than QT, and a lot of room for fish to hide in case they are stressed.

The instructions for QT seem to be all over the place. Here is a sample list of the different methods from message boards to sites like Live Aquaria:
  • Observe and/or medicate for 2 weeks
  • Observe and/or medicate for 3 weeks
  • Observe and/or medicate for 1 month
  • Observe and/or medicate for 45 days
  • Observe and/or medicate for 60 days
  • Observe and/or medicate for 72 days
  • Must medicate with Copper
  • Must medicate with Copper and Prazipro
  • Must medicate with Copper or Prazipro
  • Don't necessarily have to medicate
  • User water from DT
  • Don't use water from DT
  • Have a cycled QT
  • No need to have a cycled QT
  • Leave foam filter in DT sump for 7 days
  • Leave foam filter in DT sump for 30 days
  • I won't list all the different method of acclimation
 

GHsaltie

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Quarantining can be a little confusing if you have 10 different people telling you 11 different ways you can/should do it. I find it helps if you educate yourself on the life cycle of the different parasites/diseases you are likely to come across and determine from there whether you want to go safe and treat prophylactically for everything, or risk letting something get into your DT. For instance ich and velvet are exceedingly common nowadays so I personally treat with copper because I don't want to deal with that. On the other hand you have something like flukes that can be easily tested for with just a freshwater dip. And then you have, in my opinion/experience, the worst thing to deal with which is a bacterial infection. This can be trickier to diagnose and it may even take some time to manifest itself, this is where it is good to observe a couple weeks after treatment is done to make sure nothing else is going to pop up on you. I know that was long but I hope it helps you some :).
 

Humblefish

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@Fringe09 You have to find the QT protocol which works best for you. I'll give you an example of what I mean. An astute person with lots of time to study their fish in QT can probably get by with just passive observation. They will notice ever so slight behavioral symptoms: A fish twitches it's head, yawns, scratches it's gills on a rock. All three of those are likely indicators of a parasite or worm inside the gills; so this person knows it's time to think about medicating. Now, a busy individual or one who just doesn't notice minor details should just do themselves the favor of always prophylactically medicating their fish. ;)

The genus & species of fish you are quarantining also comes into play. For example, an Acanthurus Tang (thin slime coat) is likely to show ich or velvet white dots from the "stress" of being in QT - no medications needed until symptoms show. Whereas any wrasse (thick slime coat) will probably conceal having ich/velvet/flukes and thus, should probably be prophylactically treated for those diseases.

Another strategy is to QT freshwater black mollies alongside your specimen(s). This allows you to use them as "canary fish" to detect the presence of disease even if none of the other fish in QT are showing symptoms. This can be done via observation in a medication-free environment. More details here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-black-mollies-vs-marine-fish-diseases.312166/

So as you can see, just like there's more than one way to skin a cat, there's more than one way to QT a fish. :D
 
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Fringe09

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Searched but I cannot find the answer. Can one sick fish get other fish sick?
 

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