Banggai male swallowing eggs

[DrewBR]

I have a mated pair of banggai cardinals that have been laying eggs for a few months now. Everytime the male has either released the eggs early or eaten them in the first few days. I believe the longest carry was 5 days.

In the first months I thought that he was not well-fed enough and got to work fatening the pair up. I'm up to 3 feedings a day, with a variety of frozen and commercial foods but no live feeding.
After that I thought the clowns were running after them. So I removed the clowns.

I'm on the second or third spawn after the removal of the clowns. They were showing breeding behaviour yesterday but I can't tell if they got to lay the eggs. If they did the male has already eaten them.

What else can I do? Does the male get better at carrying over time?

 

[FullSend]

Based on what I know you're doing everything you should. You could try separating the pair between spawns to give the male a few extra days to fatten up. I've read about chunks of krill being used to fatten up the male. I've also heard about calmly moving the male while he is holding the eggs to a "safe" place away from other fish.

How old/large are the fish? I would guess they get better about holding the eggs as they mature.

 

[DrewBR]

Based on what I know you're doing everything you should. You could try separating the pair between spawns to give the male a few extra days to fatten up. I've read about chunks of krill being used to fatten up the male. I've also heard about calmly moving the male while he is holding the eggs to a "safe" place away from other fish.

How old/large are the fish? I would guess they get better about holding the eggs as they mature.

They are pretty large, nearly 2 inches on body alone. I've had them for almost a year but I asume they are nearly 3 years old since I got them from another hobbyist. I don't think I could move the male easily and gently. The other fish are all small with the exeption of a YW goby but it keeps to it's burrow most of the time.

 

[ThRoewer]

That's a very typical problem. Most commercial breeder use a bent paperclip to remove the eggs from the male's mouth a couple days after the spawning and incubate them in an egg tumbler.

 

[DrewBR]

That's a very typical problem. Most commercial breeder use a bent paperclip to remove the eggs from the male's mouth a couple days after the spawning and incubate them in an egg tumbler.

I'll try to find an egg tumbler but as I said I don't think I would be able to carch the male.

 

[sabeypets]

I had poor results tumbling Banggai eggs. I'm far from a commerical breeder but was producing 400 a month. I'm always interested seeing tumbler designs and methods that work for others.

That's a very typical problem. Most commercial breeder use a bent paperclip to remove the eggs from the male's mouth a couple days after the spawning and incubate them in an egg tumbler.

 

[FullSend]

I had poor results tumbling Banggai eggs. I'm far from a commerical breeder but was producing 400 a month. I'm always interested seeing tumbler designs and methods that work for others.

How many pairs was that?

 

[sabeypets]

How many pairs was that?

I'm not sure, I had a group of 20 and there were usually 7 carrying at any given time. A group of 5 males and 2 females that were rotated. And a couple of pairs in individual tanks. I wish I had some way to mark the ones in the group to tell how many males, if they spawn with the same female, and if either return to the same spawning site.

 

[DrewBR]

I think I figured out what happened to the current spawn. I did some cleaning in the tank and noticed the heater was not properly connected and the water temp was much lower than it should. I believe the low temp made the eggs unviable and the pair promptly ate them.

 

[jjencek]

I'm not sure, I had a group of 20 and there were usually 7 carrying at any given time. A group of 5 males and 2 females that were rotated. And a couple of pairs in individual tanks. I wish I had some way to mark the ones in the group to tell how many males, if they spawn with the same female, and if either return to the same spawning site.

I was worried about having more of them together. I have five juveniles right now. I would love to keep them all, but I thought they would kill each other after pairing up. Can I keep them all in a 90 gal tank?

 

[UnderseaOddities]

I have a mated pair of banggai cardinals that have been laying eggs for a few months now. Everytime the male has either released the eggs early or eaten them in the first few days. I believe the longest carry was 5 days.

In the first months I thought that he was not well-fed enough and got to work fatening the pair up. I'm up to 3 feedings a day, with a variety of frozen and commercial foods but no live feeding.
After that I thought the clowns were running after them. So I removed the clowns.

I'm on the second or third spawn after the removal of the clowns. They were showing breeding behaviour yesterday but I can't tell if they got to lay the eggs. If they did the male has already eaten them.

What else can I do? Does the male get better at carrying over time?

You can always try what fontosa and rainbow breeders do and get a twisty tie and hook his lip this will eject the fry... then separate the babies in a breeder box with cheato and plenty of food(reefnutrion .com has complete food culture kit from larval stage to fry to metamorphosis) you'll maybe want a 50 micron net aswell

 

[UnderseaOddities]

I haven't had cardinals in about 10 years but they're like the molly or platy of saltwater, super easy to breed I didnt even have to do anything special and had 2 males to one female and still got lucky and had fry(as long as they're separated in a breeder or own growout with no filtration(only heater and airstone first couple weeks only dripping water change daily then upgrade to sponge filter during the transition of larvae to fry start feeding a larger micron food and add a light for melanin production, still drip water changes but do weekly now instead of daily(how I raised clowns, took a few of my dads chilid technique and boom) more fry than from a planned breeding(time of planning and $$$)were produce unexpectedly by sheer acciedent(noticed a mouth full of babies after working a 60 hour week and noticed my biggest Male wasn't eating(thought he had something dormant) as I was put the net in the water to scoop him to qt, sure enough this guy spits out about 20 or so babies(didnt eat for 3 days)... but I was ignorant to my fry lived off coral food(reefroids and oysterfeast) so it can be done (with improper gear or research)as these are a very tolerant fish

 

[UnderseaOddities]

I was worried about having more of them together. I have five juveniles right now. I would love to keep them all, but I thought they would kill each other after pairing up. Can I keep them all in a 90 gal tank?

You should be alright cardinal fish are fairly docile as long is you practice proper animal husbandry(rearrange rockwork to throw off territorial based dominance,feed propper diet,maintain proper params and provide a good ratio of male to female(female dom) males have more bulldog looking mouths and longer pectoral find and appear more broad. Cardinals are docile fish by nature but if your system is too small two males can get rowdy over a female suitor and may fight or will pluck pectoral find if the pair and exclude the other mail in which case can be detured(territorial domminance)by rearranging your rock work on a regular basis to give the appearance of movement in closed system to throwing off the aggressor making him and her find a new home

 

[UnderseaOddities]

But the following is usually true for more territorial fish like damsels but during courting rituals another male is viewed as a competitor and is either hurt or mamed and put in his place as the beta(law of natural selection) or is killed(death by design)as cruel as it may seem it is the harsh reality of the animal kingdom

 

[sabeypets]

Your correct, chances are they will not get along and will fight in a 90 gallon. You need lots of space for more than one pair. I have a 4' x 8' footprint (400 gallons) tank that gives them enough room to set up a small territory without fighting and killing each other. I only keep one adult pair in smaller tanks, including my 210 gallon reef tank.

I was worried about having more of them together. I have five juveniles right now. I would love to keep them all, but I thought they would kill each other after pairing up. Can I keep them all in a 90 gal tank?