BANNED! But Is There Still Hope?

[TerraFerma]

Nope not at all. The collections for our hobby has a very minor impact on the reef. It's like picking flowers. Pick flowers and it makes room for more flowers to blossom. You take 1000 juvenile yellow tangs out of the water, you have to also calculate how many would have made it to adults. and how many of the ones left over will now have a better chance of survival due to decreased competition for food. It's not like if we take didn't take the fish out of the water it, they would have 100% survival rates. These collectors couldn't just harvest the whole ocean. It was all regulated and the scientific data shows that we are not adding to the reef's decline as some may lead us to believe.

I smell what your laying down too. The sad part is - collected fish mortality rates might be approaching natural mortality rates of juveniles? I mean just look at the fish disease forum here. And that's the people that actually think to do the work and seek out unbiased advice as opposed to doing what their LFS they got the fish from tells them to do. And that has to be a very small percentage of saltwater fish keepers.

 

[lessismore84]

Well there would never be a ban on the hobby itself. Realistically it could never be effectively enforced. But imports yes, but you still have whatever is aquacultured. But if you want to argue a point one way or another watch some documentaries. Read up. Online search research stats.
My major is Civ Egr, but i take bio and Environmental studies courses for fun. Plastic bags and trash kill tons of corals. Only like 40-50% of plastics float the rest eventually sink,Microplastics absorbed by fish and corals. Then you have people collecting the best and healthiest specimens.

It all adds up.

 

[TerraFerma]

Well there would never be a ban on the hobby itself. Realistically it could never be effectively enforced. But imports yes, but you still have whatever is aquacultured. But if you want to argue a point one way or another watch some documentaries. Read up. Online search research stats.
My major is Civ Egr, but i take bio and Environmental studies courses for fun. Plastic bags and trash kill tons of corals. Only like 40-50% of plastics float the rest eventually sink,Microplastics absorbed by fish and corals. Then you have people collecting the best and healthiest specimens.

It all adds up.

And too your point - fish are collected with plastic nets, shipped with plastic bags, shipped again with plastic bags, and go home from the LFS in a plastic bag.

 

[lion king]

Do you have any facts to back up that claim of 98% yearly death rate. If so please share your sources.

It's easy enough for you to find them yourself, but's it's happier living in denial. I'm not so much an activist for the oceans' sake, but for the welfare of the animals. If you can not see the sickening death and disease rampant in this hobby, then you are surely in denial. I want something to happen to strangle the end consumer, maybe a $1000 yellow tang. I am sick to death of seeing buckets and buckets of dead fish at the lfs' and the distributors. Or see another 40 breeder with triggers, angels, and tangs; and the countless of fish that never belong in a home aquariums. Do you ever wonder where they all go; I bet you don't.

 

[DSC reef]

It's easy enough for you to find them yourself, but's it's happier living in denial. I'm not so much an activist for the oceans' sake, but for the welfare of the animals. If you can not see the sickening death and disease rampant in this hobby, then you are surely in denial. I want something to happen to strangle the end consumer, maybe a $1000 yellow tang. I am sick to death of seeing buckets and buckets of dead fish at the lfs' and the distributors. Or see another 40 breeder with triggers, angels, and tangs; and the countless of fish that never belong in a home aquariums. Do you ever wonder where they all go; I bet you don't.

You think a ban is going to keep people from putting to small a fish into an aquarium? Why not try to educate? I'm sure all of us made mistakes starting in the hobby.

 

[PDR]

It's easy enough for you to find them yourself, but's it's happier living in denial. I'm not so much an activist for the oceans' sake, but for the welfare of the animals. If you can not see the sickening death and disease rampant in this hobby, then you are surely in denial. I want something to happen to strangle the end consumer, maybe a $1000 yellow tang. I am sick to death of seeing buckets and buckets of dead fish at the lfs' and the distributors. Or see another 40 breeder with triggers, angels, and tangs; and the countless of fish that never belong in a home aquariums. Do you ever wonder where they all go; I bet you don't.

I understand your point, but that response seems a little rude.

 

[Rakie]

Also lets not forget that those corals were being farmed. And in Fiji massive logging contributed to soil run-off and silt in the ocean, which then led to massive bleaching, Walt Smith and his coral farming operation reseeded the reef.

That's the biggest thing people don't realize -- These companies replenish the reef, they don't destroy it.

 

[botheboss]

What happens if one day the only fish, corals, or inverts are the ones that we save by keeping them in our tanks? What happens when 100% of the Great Barrier Reef bleaches because of that myth “global warming” no one cares about? All those corals that never got collected could be lost forever. The other half of this is the third world countries take better care of the reef when they know there is money in it. Take the money away and it tends to have the opposite effect.

 

[shred5]

Hawaii fish populations have increased but yet we are shut down, makes no sense.
Aquacultured rock and corals were banned also in Fiji. Makes no sense.
Banning fish in Hawaii makes us get fish from farther away which means more fish actually die.

What people do not get is this could end the hobby. With out fish no one is going to want a tank with corals and clown fish.
We are so far away from from mass producing many fish other than clowns and a handful of others. Saltwater fish are different than most fresh water fish because so many are broadcast spawners and spawn in mass numbers. Again it makes no sense to ban yellow tangs when their populations are growing in the wild.


Corals probably aint as much of a hit as the ban is on fish


If people think they should be banned why are you in the hobby?

I am all for regulating, limiting or even banning certain fish and coral if they are truly endangered. But just random banning to target the hobby is wrong.

 

[Steve Fast]

@Mike Paletta interesting and disconcerting. A few months ago you published an article Things I Miss About the Hobby followed by
Has the hobby gotten too expensive and how does it compare to the past? After being out of the hobby for 20 years, everything now is so much better. Fish are much healthier, eat pretty quickly, and the diversity is immense. Further it is so much easier to properly take care of the animals. What you mention here is the only downside.

For families like mine who will never be able to afford a trip to Hawaii or any of the other great natural reef wonders, a marine/reef aquarium helps us witness and truly appreciate the natural world. It also provides a jumping off point for lifelong wonder, passion, and curiosity which, for my children, could be manifested in reef, coral, or other kind of research or career. Private and public aquariums are where the next generation of ecologists, reef researchers, and ocean caretakers see firsthand what a reef and the oceans are all about. Media and schooling pales in comparison to witnessing it live in front of you. Our home aquariums add a deeper level of appreciation as hobbyists deeply care about their animals and care for them tirelessly.

In comparison to how we feel about our animals, what nauseates me most is that by maintaining fishing, spearfishing, and habitat degrading pollution and other practies, it is clear that those who are pushing the bans actually really don't care about the animals' well being.

 

[PlayerUnknown]

It's easy enough for you to find them yourself, but's it's happier living in denial. I'm not so much an activist for the oceans' sake, but for the welfare of the animals. If you can not see the sickening death and disease rampant in this hobby, then you are surely in denial. I want something to happen to strangle the end consumer, maybe a $1000 yellow tang. I am sick to death of seeing buckets and buckets of dead fish at the lfs' and the distributors. Or see another 40 breeder with triggers, angels, and tangs; and the countless of fish that never belong in a home aquariums. Do you ever wonder where they all go; I bet you don't.

A lot of hate to the hobby and little truth.

 

[PlayerUnknown]

In comparison to how we feel about our animals, what nauseates me most is that by maintaining fishing, spearfishing, and habitat degrading pollution and other practies, it is clear that those who are pushing the bans actually really don't care about the animals' well being.

Well said. Education, not bans, is important

 

[Scorpius]

All you bleeding heart eco-extremist's never have any fact based evidence to support your rhetoric. The hate this hobby garners from the government is beyond silly.

 

[lessismore84]

And too your point - fish are collected with plastic nets, shipped with plastic bags, shipped again with plastic bags, and go home from the LFS in a plastic bag.

Yea lol i know. Im not sure i see where you where going. Dont know if your for or against my statement. Lol

 

[Colin Fowler]

Since humans are killing as much as 98% of what they collect within one year, heck yeah, shut it all down.

Please supply the reference to the scientific study that provides evidence for this statement. I have seen this quoted by the ban groups in Hawaii, but have never seen any evidence to back this up. Thank you.

 

[PlayerUnknown]

All you bleeding heart eco-extremist's never have any fact based evidence to support your rhetoric. The hate this hobby garners from the government is beyond silly.

Because they don't have any facts and they don't want to accept any facts. And at same time they have no problem to eat seafood.

 

[Mattrg02]

After reading some more, better arguments, I change my stance. I’m against the ban until someone shows me that our hobby is truly part of the problem, and not some natural cause.

In fact, our hobby may be part of the solution. We are literally keeping stocks of all sorts of corals alive and well in our tanks. If some event destroyed all of our reefs, guess who would come to the rescue? Not the bloody government beurococrats.

What do we do when a coral starts to stn or rtn? We frag it in hopes of starting it over.

 

[Scales And Tails Daytona]

Thank you for the article. Lots of good information. Also good points from both sides.

 

[shred5]

 

[shred5]

Well there would never be a ban on the hobby itself. Realistically it could never be effectively enforced. But imports yes, but you still have whatever is aquacultured. But if you want to argue a point one way or another watch some documentaries. Read up. Online search research stats.
My major is Civ Egr, but i take bio and Environmental studies courses for fun. Plastic bags and trash kill tons of corals. Only like 40-50% of plastics float the rest eventually sink,Microplastics absorbed by fish and corals. Then you have people collecting the best and healthiest specimens.

It all adds up.

You are wrong.. Aqucultured is also banned.. No coral gets out of Fiji and same with aquacultured rock..

Several years ago they tried to ban the keeping of coral and farming of coral.. The the only way you could keep coral is you applied for a license for coral you had before the ban went into affect.. It didn't go through but they will try again.