BANNED! But Is There Still Hope?

[PDR]

Quick question. Has collecting in Hawaii been permanently banned? When doing a quick google search the most up to date info I could find just said permits were suspended pending an environmental review. Has that review taken place?

I also just read that the Fiji ban was lifted as of early March. Was it reinstated?

 

[shred5]

Quick question. Has collecting in Hawaii been permanently banned? When doing a quick google search the most up to date info I could find just said permits were suspended pending an environmental review. Has that review taken place?

I also just read that the Fiji ban was lifted as of early March. Was it reinstated?

Dana Riddle would know more on Hawaii because he was just asked to be on the advisery board.

Study showed no impact but the ban is in affect. It could change but not likely. Might not matter because most of the collectors will be out of buisness.

Fiji reinstated the ban. The way I understand it from someone who knows Walt well told me they want him to do a study and it will take to long and too much money and he is going to retire.

A rumor is Fiji makes more money on eco tourism and would rather have the land for it.

 

[ca1ore]

Whether these bans are justified, not justified, based on good science or based on pseudo science is largely moot. The ornamental fish industry has never had much legislative 'muscle', but fortunately it has shown enormous ingenuity. I was having a conversation with a fellow refer the other day about how sustainable the hobby is, and what would happen if all wild collections stopped tomorrow. While I personally prefer to start a tank with 'live' rock, there are plenty of folks that prefer dry and are successful with it; so rock is not a problem. As noted, there are countless businesses and hobbyists growing and fragging corals; OK, new specimens would be shut down, but I do think that coral farming in our tanks is clearly sustainable. Heck, it would be the ultimate irony if tank raised corals were to outlive their wild counterparts. So coral is not a problem. Fish, however, are problematic. While tank bred-tank raised are increasing, most of the species we keep are wild caught. A global ban in wild caught would significantly reduce available fish, but many could still persist. Perhaps damsels would become the favored fish family.

So, I believe the hobby persists, though perhaps not in exactly the same way. I'm far less optimistic about the survival of wild reefs ..... but that's a debate for another day.

 

[ca1ore]

FWIW, a friend of mine long on the commercial side of the hobby would always tell me that from initial collection to 1 year survival in a home tank, the mortality rate of reef fishes was 90%. From my own observations, I've no reason to doubt him (90% may even be optimistic). Not suggesting this is a resason for or against bans, just making an observation. Of course, the mortality rate for fishing is 100%.

 

[Gmerek2]

I almost got out of the hobby when 90% of my mariculture acros died from minor swings. The captive grown local swap stuff all lived and is massive colony now. I’m no expert but my own findings leads me to believe the mariculture acros are bad for the hobby. My advice to anyone reading this is buy the acros you see all the time captive grown. I see red planet, purple/blue/green slimer, Walt Disney, Cali tort, green frog skin, Fox flame etc etc that are listed every day which tell me they do well in captivity. The thing that got me confused though is that places were chopping up the mariculture and selling frags that I has assumed were home grown. With my experience the frag off the mariculture does do better longer but long term still has poor success rate.

 

[shred5]

Whether these bans are justified, not justified, based on good science or based on pseudo science is largely moot. The ornamental fish industry has never had much legislative 'muscle', but fortunately it has shown enormous ingenuity. I was having a conversation with a fellow refer the other day about how sustainable the hobby is, and what would happen if all wild collections stopped tomorrow. While I personally prefer to start a tank with 'live' rock, there are plenty of folks that prefer dry and are successful with it; so rock is not a problem. As noted, there are countless businesses and hobbyists growing and fragging corals; OK, new specimens would be shut down, but I do think that coral farming in our tanks is clearly sustainable. Heck, it would be the ultimate irony if tank raised corals were to outlive their wild counterparts. So coral is not a problem. Fish, however, are problematic. While tank bred-tank raised are increasing, most of the species we keep are wild caught. A global ban in wild caught would significantly reduce available fish, but many could still persist. Perhaps damsels would become the favored fish family.

So, I believe the hobby persists, though perhaps not in exactly the same way. I'm far less optimistic about the survival of wild reefs ..... but that's a debate for another day.

I think it survives but the hobby shrinks massively. Without most of the fish allot wont want a reef . With clowns mainly and handful of other fish the price raises on even on clowns allot.
I think with a much smaller hobby most manufacturers of equipment go belly up. With a much smaller market coral farms have to lower prices to fight for a smaller part of the market and most close. It will survive but most will drop out.

 

[shred5]

FWIW, a friend of mine long on the commercial side of the hobby would always tell me that from initial collection to 1 year survival in a home tank, the mortality rate of reef fishes was 90%. From my own observations, I've no reason to doubt him (90% may even be optimistic). Not suggesting this is a resason for or against bans, just making an observation. Of course, the mortality rate for fishing is 100%.

I do not believe it's that high. Allot die from collection to tank but the average life of a fish is longer in a aquarium. I have heard number is close to 50 percent from collection to tank which is not a good number at all and we need to do more about that for sure.

 

[ca1ore]

I'm not so sure. Hobby shrinks, no question, but I think mostly from the margins. The people that bought hippo tangs because they saw Finding Nemo. Those folks aren't buying vortech pumps or apex controllers. Although I enjoy my fish, I'd be OK with a coral dominated display ..... seems that's more the trend these days than fish anyhow. No way to know, of course; an interesting debate though.

 

[ca1ore]

I do not believe it's that high. Allot die from collection to tank but the average life of a fish is longer in a aquarium. I have heard number is close to 50 percent from collection to tank which is not a good number at all and we need to do more about that for sure.

I think if one works through the supply chain from start to finish, makes some simple assumptions, and considers where many of the fish end up ...... 50% isn't likely. But, absent actual data, it's all supposition.

 

[Rispa]

Bravo! I suggest looking at the bird industry to see what might be coming The craziest law there is that endangered species cannot legally cross state lines without an expensive permit. At least on the aqua side the consumers are considered part of the breeding/conservation effort.

 

[ReefAddict16]

We are part of the problem and the solution... but mainly the problem.

 

[RudyB]

What we do "as responsible reefers" is actually contributing to the preservation of our reefs and oceans. We learn and share our experiances to better the hobby and the enviroment. The cause of the decline is not us but the waste and dumpping that others are doing to the oceans. That is were the problem is. Bann and jail those people and companies that are poluting our oceans and you will fix the proplem.

 

[Ash321]

I dont support the ban because its stopping us from saving corals that are at high risk of bleaching.

They think the ban will save the corals, but the collectors arent the ones killing them, they are trying to save them.

Really! There are only a small group of people that are really great at keeping tricky corals! We have all been guilty of killing a coral at some point in our aquariums.

And alot of the collection is just for pure £$£$ imo

 

[revhtree]

Great discussion and nice to see it staying civil! Try that on Facebook! Lol!

 

[Joe Rice]

With all of the frequent headlines about the decline of coral reefs around the world, the optics of taking corals off the reef for a hobby are pretty terrible. The hobby might have the science on its side but the vast majority of non-hobbyists aren't going to research the topic.

Personally, I see such a huge selection of aquacultured frags and colonies available for sale that I don't understand what the fuss is about from a hobbyist point-of-view. I do feel for businesses like Walt Smith that are mariculturing corals and have been hit by the ban and this is where I would suggest the hobby focus its energy. We're at a point where we could actually support a general ban on taking corals from the reef. At the same time we could push governments to support coral mariculture, where the optics are far better. These businesses actually help to protect the reef by taking pressure off direct collection and in some cases helping with reef re-population.

If an organization like MASNA were to officially support a ban on direct collection of corals it could dramatically change the way non-hobbyists view the hobby and give us a seat at the table for many of these discussions.

 

[reefwiser]

I almost got out of the hobby when 90% of my mariculture acros died from minor swings. The captive grown local swap stuff all lived and is massive colony now. I’m no expert but my own findings leads me to believe the mariculture acros are bad for the hobby

We need to learn how to better acclimate Maricultured corals for better survival. We have a long way to go if we are wanting to run the hobby on just aquacultured corals. There is no way at present to handle all the corals that the USA purchases let alone the whole world.

 

[Rispa]

What happens if one day the only fish, corals, or inverts are the ones that we save by keeping them in our tanks? What happens when 100% of the Great Barrier Reef bleaches because of that myth “global warming” no one cares about? All those corals that never got collected could be lost forever. The other half of this is the third world countries take better care of the reef when they know there is money in it. Take the money away and it tends to have the opposite effect.

This has already happened in the bird industry. Look at the Spyx macaw.

What I want to see is more breeding but not just to sell. What if we become really good at breeding and work with conservation facilities by sending a quarter of captive bred fish, corals and inverts?

Also instead of a ban what about a weight limit on what can be taken yearly?

 

[shred5]

This has already happened in the bird industry. Look at the Spyx macaw.

What I want to see is more breeding but not just to sell. What if we become really good at breeding and work with conservation facilities by sending a quarter of captive bred fish, corals and inverts?

Also instead of a ban what about a weight limit on what can be taken yearly?

As far as weight limits there has been limits for a long time on the amount of fish and coral that can be taken from most areas. Each individual area has different limits. Hawaii ban is because of Sea Shepard who is targeting our hobby.. They want our hobby shut down and wont stop till it is. They also have the backing.

Problem is with saltwater fish is allot of fish like tangs are broadcast spawners and spawn in massive groups they do not spawn like clownfish, this is hard to replicate.
We will get there eventually but we are still years away from doing it. We could be cut short if collection is banned. There are several other places also contemplating tighter limits or banning altogether.

The hobby could adjust if this happens slowly but we have had 3 bans in 3 months and their is talk of more before years end.

I do not think coral is as much of a issue as fish..

 

[Rispa]

Could a reward system be put in place for breeders? Especially those working actively with organizations, so part of their spawn goes back into the wild?

 

[ReefWithCare]

I think it’s fine that they limit or even ban collection. It’s a push for all of us to aquaculture more. I just wish the fish side of aquaculture would catch up to.