battling algae and dinos forever and need help please

WRXTerror · Mar 14, 2021

I have have a 25 IM Lagoon going for about 3 years now. I started with Dry rock. I maintain good water parameters, use RODI (0tds), test with Hanna checkers, weekly water changes, dose 2 part and microbacter, skimmer, AI Prime lighting, and Nero 5 to move water.

The issue is I am tired of always having algae or dino's. The joy of reefing has faded this last year as I have to spend 5 plus hours a week to have a 25 Gal tank look OK. It requires constant maintenance and effort and I just want a nice tank to enjoy and reduce my time cleaning. My fish all seem healthy but I have trouble keeping anything other than favia, duncan, and acans healthy. Just 2 weeks ago I lost 2 rainbow anemones out of nowhere. They were large and bubbled nicely and then within a week they were done. I got most of them out before they dissolved so luckily didn't totally nuke my tank. I performed a good water change, cleaned all the rock and glass, and then the next morning after 3 hours cleaning my tank looks like the pics.

Should I just give up and find a new hobby? Will this ever end. I love the fish and corals even more. I find them exciting and they amaze me. But I don't enjoy hours on hours of cleaning to never have a nice tank. I would be willing to spend some more on a new light or equipment that would help but I'm also tired of doing that and still loosing livestock or no improvement to tank. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated and thanks for listening.

Tank: 25 Gallon IM Lagoon AIO (19 gals water)(dry rock, aragonite bed)
Temp: 77F
Alk: 9dkh
Nitrate: 0.1 (sometimes 0, hard to keep here)
Phosphate: 0.02 (also sometime 0 but not as hard to keep up a little)
Salinity 1.025

Livestock:
2 orange storm clowns
1 starry blenny
1 six line butt (I mean wrasse)
1 royal gramma
1 shark nose goby
1 fire shrimp
1 fighting conch
5 trocus snail
5 nasarius snails
1 tuxedo urchin
30 head duncan
8 acans
1 alveopora

I have ordered a Hanna calcium and PH checkers so I can test those as well.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 14, 2021

First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

zukihara · Mar 14, 2021

Ok, I am by no means an expert, but anecdotally I can tell you that I added a bit of phyto to a tank with a bad cyano problem and in 2 days you could see cyano withdrawing as I believe the phyto out competed it. For $20 you can get a ton of it from forum sponsor Tommy's Phyto and try it.

TheDragonsReef · Mar 14, 2021

Have you verified with a microscope that its dino and not just cyano? But if it is dinos your nutrients are falling too low. Start by getting you nitrates between 5-10 and phosphates above 0.03. You may have to dose them if necessary. While doing this you also need to introduce competing bacteria. I used phytoplankton, dr tims waste away, and eco balance. If the algae gets better at night and comes back stronger during the day a properly sized uv light will also help as that means the algae free swims during the night. It took me a few months to beat my dinos.

WRXTerror · Mar 15, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
First- Check phosphates and nitrates to assure theyre not elevated.
Here is full program:
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

I am going to do another deep cleaning Wednesday and start the blackout like suggested. I had some vibrant in the cabinet and went ahead and dosed that this morning. It may have helped or my CUC were working hard today eating bad stuff.

WRXTerror · Mar 15, 2021

zukihara said:
Ok, I am by no means an expert, but anecdotally I can tell you that I added a bit of phyto to a tank with a bad cyano problem and in 2 days you could see cyano withdrawing as I believe the phyto out competed it. For $20 you can get a ton of it from forum sponsor Tommy's Phyto and try i

I will swing by my coral guy this week and see if still is selling the phyto, thanks for the advice.

WRXTerror · Mar 15, 2021

Dragonsreef said:
Have you verified with a microscope that its dino and not just cyano? But if it is dinos your nutrients are falling too low. Start by getting you nitrates between 5-10 and phosphates above 0.03. You may have to dose them if necessary. While doing this you also need to introduce competing bacteria. I used phytoplankton, dr tims waste away, and eco balance. If the algae gets better at night and comes back stronger during the day a properly sized uv light will also help as that means the algae free swims during the night. It took me a few months to beat my dinos.

I ordered the cheapo microscope off Amazon and will check tomorrow. I have the IM UV for the AIO tank I have and it doesn't seem to do anything. I don't think it's free floating at night, it just came back within one night of a deep cleaning.

WRXTerror · Mar 15, 2021

Update on my parameters, not sure if I was off with my tests yesterday but the ones I got this morning were so off I did them 2x to make sure:

Nitrate=4
Phos=.1
Alk 8.8

WRXTerror · Mar 18, 2021

Got a microscope and verified that it's Dinos I'm battling. Did a deep cleaning last night and started a 5 day blackout today. Is it OK for my acans and duncans to be without light for 5 days?

saltyhog · Mar 18, 2021

Can you post a video at the next higher magnification. From the appearance in the tank I would lean towards those being prorocentrum.

If so they can be toxic. Are you having any losses with clean up crew or corals?

WRXTerror · Mar 20, 2021

saltyhog said:
Can you post a video at the next higher magnification. From the appearance in the tank I would lean towards those being prorocentrum.

If so they can be toxic. Are you having any losses with clean up crew or corals?

Thanks for the reply. Sorry I can't get higher magnification, I bought a cheap scope just to identify and thats all she's got. Also getting a video is hard, taking those pics was hard enough. they were swimming around a central point much like descriped by others with Dinos. No losses in the tank except 2 nems 2 weeks ago. Everything else is going good.

PeterC99 · Mar 20, 2021

Do you run a UV light?

WRXTerror · Mar 21, 2021

PeterC99 said:
Do you run a UV light?

I do but I can't say it does anything. It's the one made by innovative marine for my AIO. It's 9W and the tank is a 25 Gal with about 18 Gal of water.

WRXTerror · Mar 22, 2021

Today marks day 4 of my 5 day blackout. I looked in the tank yesterday and saw tons of the red stuff floating around but none of it on the rocks or gravel. Tomorrow when I uncover the tank i have a few questions.

1. Should I do another water change? I did one the night before the first day of blackout.
2. Should I go back to normal lighting or dial it down for a while to let the corals recover from the blackout.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

WRXTerror · Mar 22, 2021

Uncovered the tank today on day 4 of blackout and the tanks never looked cleaner. All corals, fish, and inverts seem to be good. Still going to do one more day blackout. Slowly bring the lights up tomorrow. Wondering if I should do water change right after blackout or wait a few days?

thedon986 · Mar 22, 2021

No water changes until you can’t see any on your microscope. Dose nitrates and phosphates to get levels up and keep them there by monitoring. Nitrate around 5, pho’s around .05-.1. Use reliable test kits. I used phyto for mine, also added lots of bottled bacteria, and also dosed silica for a while for diatom competition. There is an amphidinium Dino treatment thread that will be useful for you. If they don’t seem to be toxic, they are probably amph. I’ve done three water changes in 6 months fighting them and the two recent were because they are almost gone and some corals were suffering. These changes brought them back slightly so no I have to wait again.

WRXTerror · Mar 22, 2021

thedon986 said:
No water changes until you can’t see any on your microscope. Dose nitrates and phosphates to get levels up and keep them there by monitoring. Nitrate around 5, pho’s around .05-.1. Use reliable test kits. I used phyto for mine, also added lots of bottled bacteria, and also dosed silica for a while for diatom competition. There is an amphidinium Dino treatment thread that will be useful for you. If they don’t seem to be toxic, they are probably amph. I’ve done three water changes in 6 months fighting them and the two recent were because they are almost gone and some corals were suffering. These changes brought them back slightly so no I have to wait again.

Thanks, I will skip the water change and check the water for any dinos. I hope this works, I really want to enjoy my tank and not feel like it's a chore.

WRXTerror · Mar 23, 2021

First day out of the blackout has started. Water crystal clear, nothing on rocks or gravel. best the tank has ever looked. I fear it's fleeting, but good for now. Only thing I lost was my huge fire shrimp. Not a trace of him anywhere. Cant believe they ate everything, maybe he will pop up. Just checked my water under the microscope. looks like I may still have a few dinos. Only saw one moving though. Going to test water tonight and see where I stand. Thanks everyone for the help!