Bean animal gets out of wack after filter sock change

[Brew12]

Yes I do have a 2nd and third drain but they both go into my refugium. Yes, that is the overflow...its a CTC

At least that part sounds good.

The height in the overflow section should be determined by the height of the partial drain in the overflow.
The primary, or full siphon drain, should be the lowest pipe in the overflow. The secondary, or partial drain, should be the middle and sets water level. The top of the emergency drain should be above both of those.

Is that how you are set up?

 

[shoelaceike]

At least that part sounds good.

The height in the overflow section should be determined by the height of the partial drain in the overflow.
The primary, or full siphon drain, should be the lowest pipe in the overflow. The secondary, or partial drain, should be the middle and sets water level. The top of the emergency drain should be above both of those.

Is that how you are set up?

Yes. Exactly. IM recommends the water level to be right below the secondary drain. I have noticed the level back there fluctuating though....sometimes it goes low and sometimes it goes too high that it starts making noise in the secondary drain. The only thing I've realized forsure, is when I add a new filter sock, the level in the back plummets and I start to lose my main siphen.

 

[shoelaceike]

Yes. Exactly. IM recommends the water level to be right below the secondary drain. I have noticed the level back there fluctuating though....sometimes it goes low and sometimes it goes too high that it starts making noise in the secondary drain. The only thing I've realized forsure, is when I add a new filter sock, the level in the back plummets and I start to lose my main siphen.

Right now I'm running without a sock to see if I can keep the overflow level stable. If not, I would have to assume that my return is inconsistent.

 

[Brew12]

Yes. Exactly. IM recommends the water level to be right below the secondary drain. I have noticed the level back there fluctuating though....sometimes it goes low and sometimes it goes too high that it starts making noise in the secondary drain. The only thing I've realized forsure, is when I add a new filter sock, the level in the back plummets and I start to lose my main siphen.

You may have too much flow in your secondary drain. It should be a fairly small stream that comes out it. It sounds like yours may be switching back and forth from a partial siphon to a full siphon. That normally makes a flushing sound like a toilet bowl, or gurgling.
Still struggling to understand the role the filter sock plays.....

 

[shoelaceike]

You may have too much flow in your secondary drain. It should be a fairly small stream that comes out it. It sounds like yours may be switching back and forth from a partial siphon to a full siphon. That normally makes a flushing sound like a toilet bowl, or gurgling.
Still struggling to understand the role the filter sock plays.....

Ya me too. I try to have no flow at all like IM recommends but the fluctuations are the issue. If it can't be the filter sock, then it must be the pump. Although it is odd that I get such a big fluctuations when I change socks. If the socks get clogged, couldn't that cause the drain to slow a little?

 

[Brew12]

Ya me too. I try to have no flow at all like IM recommends but the fluctuations are the issue. If it can't be the filter sock, then it must be the pump. Although it is odd that I get such a big fluctuations when I change socks. If the socks get clogged, couldn't that cause the drain to slow a little?

I just noticed how far down into the sock your run your primary drain. That could cause an issue. My return line is submerged but in a section of the sump that is a constant water level. I think it is possible that your back pressure from changes in water level could be causing the return to change. It would gradually slow as water level in the sock rises and then speed up when the water level drops from the new sock.
I'm not sure raising the level of the pipe would help, because you would still see the same change in water level... I'll do some research.

 

[schuby]

This is for my understanding. Do you have any filter socks in your overflow?

When you change a filter sock in your sump, flow through it should improve. This should cause the water-level in sump to rise, when compared to water-level with a dirty filter sock. Is that what you see happening?

What you describe is the opposite of my experience: water level in DT lowers after changing filter sock. In my previous tank when I used filter socks, my sump had a higher water-level after cleaning filter sock, return chamber had most water, return pump had higher flow, and DT had higher water-level.

 

[shoelaceike]

I just noticed how far down into the sock your run your primary drain. That could cause an issue. My return line is submerged but in a section of the sump that is a constant water level. I think it is possible that your back pressure from changes in water level could be causing the return to change. It would gradually slow as water level in the sock rises and then speed up when the water level drops from the new sock.
I'm not sure raising the level of the pipe would help, because you would still see the same change in water level... I'll do some research.

Exactly. That would make sense as I notice overtime the overflow level goes down and then big time with the new sock. I bet a nylon sock will help these fluctuations. Either way, I'm going to run sockless for a few days to make sure my pump is not giving inconsistent flow.

 

[shoelaceike]

This is for my understanding. Do you have any filter socks in your overflow?

When you change a filter sock in your sump, flow through it should improve. This should cause the water-level in sump to rise, when compared to water-level with a dirty filter sock. Is that what you see happening?

What you describe is the opposite of my experience: water level in DT lowers after changing filter sock. In my previous tank when I used filter socks, my sump had a higher water-level after cleaning filter sock, return chamber had most water, return pump had higher flow, and DT had higher water-level.

Yes exactly. The sump rises and overflow falls.

 

[lapin]

It looks like you have the pipe dumps into the sock. If the Dirty sock is causing back pressure in the drain, the level will rise in the overflow. This will cause the sump to have less water and the tank/ overflow to have more water
Im on a phone so its hard for me to see

 

[shoelaceike]

It looks like you have the pipe dumps into the sock. If the Dirty sock is causing back pressure in the drain, the level will rise in the overflow. This will cause the sump to have less water and the tank/ overflow to have more water
Im on a phone so its hard for me to see

Yes exactly. And then I open the open the gate valve to lower the overflow level. Once I take off the sock it all goes back to my original level and I need to adjust the gate valve again.

I guess I just can't use felt socks unless I want to deal with noise from my secondary drain. Not sure how other people get around this....

 

[lapin]

You put the secondary to empty under water with just a Trickle flow. Mine is a bit more than a trickle just so it purges water on start up

 

[shoelaceike]

You put the secondary to empty under water with just a Trickle flow. Mine is a bit more than a trickle just so it purges water on start up

Pretty much how mine is now....we'll see if anything changes without socks

 

[gonzo620]

@Brew12 is correct the atmospheric pressure (Head pressure) in the drain is changing due to the hight of the water level rising as the sock dirties. Head pressure is Height in feet X .433. only factor changing is the height in the formula. which is enough to require an adjustment in valve. I do believe the Bean style overflow required a water dump chamber prior to the sock to stay consistent.

 

[shoelaceike]

@Brew12 is correct the atmospheric pressure (Head pressure) in the drain is changing due to the hight of the water level rising as the sock dirties. Head pressure is Height in feet X .433. only factor changing is the height in the formula. which is enough to require an adjustment in valve. I do believe the Bean style overflow required a water dump chamber prior to the sock to stay consistent.

Very interesting. If I cut holes on the sock to keep it from clogging and raising the water level, would that work?

 

[Saltyreef]

@Brew12 is correct the atmospheric pressure (Head pressure) in the drain is changing due to the hight of the water level rising as the sock dirties. Head pressure is Height in feet X .433. only factor changing is the height in the formula. which is enough to require an adjustment in valve. I do believe the Bean style overflow required a water dump chamber prior to the sock to stay consistent.

Yup

 

[shoelaceike]

Yup

Well its too late for that lol

 

[gonzo620]

Very interesting. If I cut holes on the sock to keep it from clogging and raising the water level, would that work?
Cutting a hole in the sock defeats the purpose of the sock all together.
Some solutions
1. Get a different sump.
2. Modify current sump( possible roller mat addition)
3. Use mesh filter socks ( more frequent changes as to keep large organic particles from decaying)
4.Be more diligent at felt sock change out (every 3day or so to prevent sock filling. )

 

[shoelaceike]

Very interesting. If I cut holes on the sock to keep it from clogging and raising the water level, would that work?
Cutting a hole in the sock defeats the purpose of the sock all together.
Some solutions
1. Get a different sump.
2. Modify current sump( possible roller mat addition)
3. Use mesh filter socks ( more frequent changes as to keep large organic particles from decaying)
4.Be more diligent at felt sock change out (every 3day or so to prevent sock filling. )

Cutting holes won't defeat the purpose, it should still catch a lot of small particles....small holes right below the water line should help a lot.

 

[shoelaceike]

@Brew12 is correct the atmospheric pressure (Head pressure) in the drain is changing due to the hight of the water level rising as the sock dirties. Head pressure is Height in feet X .433. only factor changing is the height in the formula. which is enough to require an adjustment in valve. I do believe the Bean style overflow required a water dump chamber prior to the sock to stay consistent.

As long as the water height in the filter sock does not raise higher then the sump level, it won't affect the flow? Or it will anyway? (Holes in sock right below water line)