Best lighting on the market? Is there one?

tamanning

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2020
Messages
280
Reaction score
367
I do hate the fact that I have to repeat over and over my words! But that is the way newbies learn!

Let's face it, this forum is in it's majority about LED discussions and mainly many types of problems about them. The majority of hobbyists have struggling corals under LEDs and some of them don't even know those corals are struggling. You guys already saw in some of the videos! If you don't, this isn't about your corals then, but the majority is suffering to save electricity or whatever! That is the truth! Don't lie to yourself! Stores show blue/violet tanks as they would be the best example ever. What a joke, IMO! The market is pushing LEDs and basically trying to eradicate metal halides and T5s from it, trying to replaced both completly with LEDs. To emulate? Metal halide and or T5 users are oppressed when they try to communicate here and teach others about the technology. That needs to change! Some of the friends here are very knowledgeable about the subject but they are tired of the oppression every time they come here to offer their help with halides and T5s! We should have room for everyone.

The majority of LED companies compare their products with metal halides and T5s, trying to prove their LEDs will give BETTER results growing corals HEALTHIER!!! Another great joke! One could go against those claims and say that halides and T5s will at lest keep corals "as healthier". Would that be just? See what I'm trying to say here? LED club? Or worse than that??? Although in reality, many halide users actually say that wouldn't be the case, and halides will surpass the results of LEDs any time. We all have our own opinions.

We still have 2 American companies that are working hard to supply metal halide equipment (@Reefbrite and @Hamilton Tech), willing to push with great efforts, besides the strong opposed marketing competition we all see. Those companies also sell LEDs FYI. I applaud them! There are so many coral breeders and hobbyists still in favor of metal halides as the best way to provide light over their reefs simply because of the amazing results, the way they like. Is halide a minority in the market now? Yes. Are they selling more and more each day? Many times what we could expect! Should we all respect such numbers and support? Yes! Should online stores open space to accomodate and take advantage at this time? Absolutely!!

If the scientists can't prove why halides give the results they give, how could we refer any papers here? That is the reason why I post videos! Everything becomes relative and a matter of opinion when we don't have enough scientific evidence to explain all the process. Ask @Dana Riddle what would be the scientific evidences for the differences between the results. I mean, if we can offer intensity and spectrum from LEDs (PAR/ spectral graphics), why would halides have results so exceptional in comparison? Shimmer? Heat (IR radiaton)? True UV? Without further experiences and more papers we simply can't explain! Dana has contributed amazingly, more than anyone I know. There is no one I respect more than him in terms of lighting for reefs specifically about zooxanthellae/ pigmentation, etc. He feeds the hobby directly with his knowledge! That is very important!!! A life dedicated to our hobby!!!! I'd like also to add other authors, like Sanjay, Julian, Paletta, and many others... that is what makes the foundation of this hobby. So, yeah we need science here!
Tullio has been publishing his absolute favoritism for metal halides, but he never actually went deep in any explanation.

Those who believed in my words have tried and testified. The halide user numbers are growing! Is that an evidence? That's why Hamilton doesn't have most of halide gear in stock right now! Is this a bad thing? Should we call this club or cult? How stupid would that be? We are all together in this! Only a hobby, guys!! Let others enjoy the benefits of metal halides and T5s. They are amazing lights and provide extraordinary results!

The best LEDs I know are the ones that try their best to imitate halides and T5s. Their results are the best results! Does that make halides and T5s better in that category? Absolutely! Simply because they are the example to be followed. No LED can provide 100% of what metal halides and T5s provide yet. They are trying to... Power to that! Lots of money to get one of those though!

I am against the lies published by some to diminish halides and favor LEDs, period! I am against any cultism in any format! You can call what's happening here "halide movement" or whatever... My vision is to have halides available again to every hobbyist so we can enjoy them and be able to choose between LEDs, halides and T5s. That's all!

It's time to accept that metal halides are coming back and that it is a good thing! Actually great thing! After all, no one is putting a knife in your throat to run halides. We just want to be able to express our favoritism! I exercise my right and freedom of speech, simply.

Some things are inevitable and if the halide market starts to grow again, hey... this hobby is full of surprises.
The market is driven by profits. They are pushing the idea that leds are better because they cost so little to manufacture and it's the new sexy tech so they charge 700 dollars for something that cost 50 to make. I have not been in this hobby for as long as some of you people but I do believe if it isn't broke don't fix it. I love t5s . I have and am still getting great results from them.
 
Avast

rgulrich

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
97
Reaction score
181
Location
Marriottsville, MD
@A. grandis - Perhaps your posts would sound a bit more plausible if they weren't so desperate-sounding. Simply state "In my experience over the past X number of years, I've used..." There would be no need post links to videos or some such ("appeals to authority") as you would simply be relaying your personal experience. As it is now, you might want to put a statement at the front of your posts affirming that you have no relation to any person or organization that is involved in the manufacture or sales of metal halide bulbs, fixtures, or entire systems, as many of your posts appear to be right up to that edge.
Here's an example based on me: I've got about 50 years of experience in freshwater, marine, and reef aquariums spanning from the days when regular incandescent bulbs were king. They passed the crown to regular fluorescent, that passed the crown to high pressure sodium (with a brief quartz halogen interlude), then to metal halide, VHO fluorescent, then LED. Light emitting plasma is still floundering around the edges and can be found in the same grow-shops that sell metal halide and heavy-lifting LED systems. I've purchased and used most of these systems, the exception being light emitting plasma. I read the research first on those and took a pass.
I had heated discussions with Bob Goemans in the front lobby of Saltwater Solutions in Tucson in the mid-late 80's on the virtues of metal halide over fluorescent lighting, especially when used with the recently-released Actinic 03 VHO T-12s (I used six-footers over my 100 and then my 225). I used halides for many years. I still have, as I noted earlier, six 250W electronic ballasts in my garage, along with a dual 150W ballast, and 6 individual mogul base fixtures along with a 3 bulb HQI canopy. They have been fired up to make sure they still work (they light up my Harley pretty well). They've been in the garage going on six or seven years now. If you'd like to buy them, please bring your pickup truck.
I'm going to apologize for the quality of the following pics, as I didn't "tidy up" the glass before taking them, and really just strolled around the reef with my phone to snap some shots. The perspective is looking down at about a 45' angle. These were taken with just the ViparSpectra fixtures on after "high noon" lighting had switched off. The nice thing about a 300 gallon is the sheer footprint of the reef and the space it provides for coral.
I grow all of the coral in this aquarium from frags, and if you look closely you can spot some that are freshly mounted on white epoxy. There are even a few Zoanthids and Palythoas in there, but they tend to like the more shaded areas in this reef. You'll notice the Actinodiscus tend to hug the edges of the reef as well, shying away from brighter light. If you'd like I can provide you some growth rate series, too. I've provided them to my local club in my build thread there. As an example, the bright green staghorn acropora affectionately nickname the "Bali Green Slimer" (Acropora yongei) was a 2 1/2" frag in April of last year. I'm kinda glad my tabling acros don't grow like that.
At any rate, enjoy my "just fine" LED-lit reef:

(Right side end view)


(Back of reef, right side)


(Back of reef, left side)


(Left side end view)


(Right front)


(Middle front)

Perhaps you could provide some pictures of your reef and the results you've gotten with your choice of lighting (and, of course, everything else that goes into a reef...)?

Cheers,
Ray :cool:
 

Ardeus

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
2,334
Location
Portugal
If you're in the business of growing coral, your best lighting will be different if you just want your tank to look its absolut best.

I cut many corners when chosing gear for my tank, but not on lighting.
 

90's reefer

Fight the Good Fight
View Badges
Joined
Sep 10, 2018
Messages
4,392
Reaction score
7,698
Location
NorCal
@A. grandis - Perhaps your posts would sound a bit more plausible if they weren't so desperate-sounding. Simply state "In my experience over the past X number of years, I've used..." There would be no need post links to videos or some such ("appeals to authority") as you would simply be relaying your personal experience. As it is now, you might want to put a statement at the front of your posts affirming that you have no relation to any person or organization that is involved in the manufacture or sales of metal halide bulbs, fixtures, or entire systems, as many of your posts appear to be right up to that edge.
Here's an example based on me: I've got about 50 years of experience in freshwater, marine, and reef aquariums spanning from the days when regular incandescent bulbs were king. They passed the crown to regular fluorescent, that passed the crown to high pressure sodium (with a brief quartz halogen interlude), then to metal halide, VHO fluorescent, then LED. Light emitting plasma is still floundering around the edges and can be found in the same grow-shops that sell metal halide and heavy-lifting LED systems. I've purchased and used most of these systems, the exception being light emitting plasma. I read the research first on those and took a pass.
I had heated discussions with Bob Goemans in the front lobby of Saltwater Solutions in Tucson in the mid-late 80's on the virtues of metal halide over fluorescent lighting, especially when used with the recently-released Actinic 03 VHO T-12s (I used six-footers over my 100 and then my 225). I used halides for many years. I still have, as I noted earlier, six 250W electronic ballasts in my garage, along with a dual 150W ballast, and 6 individual mogul base fixtures along with a 3 bulb HQI canopy. They have been fired up to make sure they still work (they light up my Harley pretty well). They've been in the garage going on six or seven years now. If you'd like to buy them, please bring your pickup truck.
I'm going to apologize for the quality of the following pics, as I didn't "tidy up" the glass before taking them, and really just strolled around the reef with my phone to snap some shots. The perspective is looking down at about a 45' angle. These were taken with just the ViparSpectra fixtures on after "high noon" lighting had switched off. The nice thing about a 300 gallon is the sheer footprint of the reef and the space it provides for coral.
I grow all of the coral in this aquarium from frags, and if you look closely you can spot some that are freshly mounted on white epoxy. There are even a few Zoanthids and Palythoas in there, but they tend to like the more shaded areas in this reef. You'll notice the Actinodiscus tend to hug the edges of the reef as well, shying away from brighter light. If you'd like I can provide you some growth rate series, too. I've provided them to my local club in my build thread there. As an example, the bright green staghorn acropora affectionately nickname the "Bali Green Slimer" (Acropora yongei) was a 2 1/2" frag in April of last year. I'm kinda glad my tabling acros don't grow like that.
At any rate, enjoy my "just fine" LED-lit reef:

(Right side end view)


(Back of reef, right side)


(Back of reef, left side)


(Left side end view)


(Right front)


(Middle front)

Perhaps you could provide some pictures of your reef and the results you've gotten with your choice of lighting (and, of course, everything else that goes into a reef...)?

Cheers,
Ray :cool:
Pictures are worth a thousand words. Thanks for sharing!
I have seen many outstanding reefs running every light talked about in this thread.
Pic the one "you like" and reef on.
 
AS

shred5

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,464
Location
Waukesha, Wi
With any lighting there is give and take period. You cant have efficiency with out giving up something.
Look at led fixtures now over the last few years.
Ecotech Radion Gen 3 170 watts, Gen 4 pro 190 watts Gen 5 215 watts. See a trend?
That efficiency came at a cost. Now leds are losing it and adding diffusers which cut into efficiency again.

Leds efficiency is because it can concentrate light and put light where it needs to be. That may not be great for some corals though because of shading. Softies that sway not to bad, frags not to bad but as coral grows it can be bad. How do you combat it you add diffusers and more leds and spread them out. There is give and take.

To me for sps The thing that is missing for some SPS is UV in leds. It plays a factor in coloring up shallow water sps that produce pigment to shade themselves like sunscreens. Leds can do it but the leds cost more than a fixture. UV does play a role in some sps but not all. LEDs will eventually get there on UV but maybe not before something better comes out. o_O All lighting has a advantage and disadvantage period. I deal with lighting all the time in my industry.

Allot of it is pure marketing just like mentioned above. What amazes me is how much we are getting ripped off on led fixtures in the reef hobby. Yea I realize the hobby is smaller and some of the leds cost a little more than a industrial fixture but it is a joke.
 
Last edited:

rgulrich

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
97
Reaction score
181
Location
Marriottsville, MD
@90's reefer - I could spend all day in front of the reef with my nose pressed up against the glass. I've been accused of that on occasion by someone else in this household...
Here's another pic - of my little old lady Bella - a 13 yr "young" Belgian Groenendael with Norman, a 6 yr old Boxer-Lab mix at her side. I've had Belgians in my life since the mid 80s in Athens GR. Once you have them in your life, you can't really let go.


Cheers,
Ray
 

rtparty

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 19, 2010
Messages
1,016
Reaction score
1,210
Location
Lehi, Utah
Best? Halides. Decades of track record to prove this. The physics of how LEDs are made means they will never catch up to halides. At least with our current technology. It would take some serious breakthroughs for LEDs to catch up or even pass.
 

rgulrich

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
97
Reaction score
181
Location
Marriottsville, MD
@shred5 - I get what you're saying about UV exposure, but I think you also need to plug human perception of color into the equation. Also, if you're running a double envelope halide (such as a mogul base or one that has a UV filtering glass as directed for HQI use), you really shouldn't see a pigment shift due to UV. If you do, you should also be wearing eye protection - really.
Here's a shot of my Pocillpora damicornis I donated to our club's Frag Fest in early 2019 (another Pocillopora is at the back of the bin). The color of this coral under these daylight fluorescents is patently rose, or dark pink to some.


Here's the same coral under my LEDs - a much different result.

Yeh, it went through a pretty heavy growth period in a couple months, one of the reasons I decided the club could make better use of it than I at that stage. If you look closely at some of the pics above you should be able to spot a couple "little tykes" started from really small frags of that coral after that club event.

So, while I suspect the fluorescent lighting at the Johns Hopkins APL cafeteria is daylight, I'd wager that I didn't (and probably still don't) have a lot of green in my lighting so the rose coloration didn't show, or was possibly masked by the chromate green. Is this a bad thing? Don't know. Is it truly reflective of what it would look like if I raised it in a greenhouse? Got me. I've tried for years to get authorization to build a greenhouse between the house and the barn with no success so far. I've even offered to turn over half to year-round vegetable gardening. No luck. Yet...

This is a fun hobby, and we hopefully learn something new every day. I just wish I had more time to play with it.
Cheers,
Ray :cool:
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

nereefpat

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
4,276
Reaction score
4,871
Location
Central Nebraska
@shred5 - I get what you're saying about UV exposure, but I think you also need to plug human perception of color into the equation. Also, if you're running a double envelope halide (such as a mogul base or one that has a UV filtering glass as directed for HQI use), you really shouldn't see a pigment shift due to UV. If you do, you should also be wearing eye protection - really.
Here's a shot of my Pocillpora damicornis I donated to our club's Frag Fest in early 2019 (another Pocillopora is at the back of the bin). The color of this coral under these daylight fluorescents is patently rose, or dark pink to some.


Here's the same coral under my LEDs - a much different result.

Yeh, it went through a pretty heavy growth period in a couple months, one of the reasons I decided the club could make better use of it than I at that stage. If you look closely at some of the pics above you should be able to spot a couple "little tykes" started from really small frags of that coral after that club event.

So, while I suspect the fluorescent lighting at the Johns Hopkins APL cafeteria is daylight, I'd wager that I didn't (and probably still don't) have a lot of green in my lighting so the rose coloration didn't show, or was possibly masked by the chromate green. Is this a bad thing? Don't know. Is it truly reflective of what it would look like if I raised it in a greenhouse? Got me. I've tried for years to get authorization to build a greenhouse between the house and the barn with no success so far. I've even offered to turn over half to year-round vegetable gardening. No luck. Yet...

This is a fun hobby, and we hopefully learn something new every day. I just wish I had more time to play with it.
Cheers,
Ray :cool:
I may have missed it in the hundreds of posts here...What LEDs fixtures are you using, how many, and what are the tank's dimensions?
 

shred5

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
6,168
Reaction score
4,464
Location
Waukesha, Wi
@shred5 - I get what you're saying about UV exposure, but I think you also need to plug human perception of color into the equation. Also, if you're running a double envelope halide (such as a mogul base or one that has a UV filtering glass as directed for HQI use), you really shouldn't see a pigment shift due to UV. If you do, you should also be wearing eye protection - really.



This is a fun hobby, and we hopefully learn something new every day. I just wish I had more time to play with it.
Cheers,
Ray :cool:

Anyone who used the Iwaski bulb knows there is still UV that makes it out. If you worked under them long enough you could get a little red on your skin.. they only provided some protection. Not much UV shielding was needed because the applications halides were used for put them far enough a way like industrial highbay, lowbays and parking lot fixtures. Some people wear eye protection out in the sun but not everyone does or all the time.

Probably should be wearing eye protection but usually you are not looking directly at the bulb in the reef hobby at least you shouldn't.
Honestly studies have shown all this blue from leds is not good either.

Most fixtures are good enough to grow corals but like I said there is give and take in all lighting technologies.
 
Last edited:

rgulrich

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
97
Reaction score
181
Location
Marriottsville, MD
@nereefpat - The aquarium is a 300 gallon Deep Dimension with corner overflows. Foot print is 72" X 36" and water depth is about 27". This is not a cheap, inexpensive, plug and play solution, but rather one that I've tailored to meet my wants and needs.
The LED fixtures are 2X 165W and 4X 300W ViparSpectra. Decent spectrum and array. These are mounted perpendicular to the rear of the aquarium, with the 165W one each end - no need to light the overflows. I used shred5's recommended approach to panel LEDs by covering as much surface area as possible while allowing (tradeoff) for the my preferred inclusion of Kessil A360WEs. I removed the 90' focusing lenses from the ViparSpectra to increase color blending (native lenses are 120') as I wasn't worried about PAR levels and wanted to increase spread a smidge at the same time. I then covered the face glass with an acrylic light diffusion lens to produce basically a large, solid band of well-blended light. It's good to see manufacturers starting to do this in my opinion.
Please note I run this ViparSpectra array at 50% power level so I don't bleach coral. Been there, done that, and I'm still sad at the number of corals I lost because I didn't use a PAR meter to establish a baseline. And before the question is asked, yes, you can bleach coral with blue light. Another experiment I'd rather not repeat.
I supplement these (or vice versa) with six Kessil A360WE with intensity on full and their spectrum swung all the way over to the daylight side. If you look in the pictures up thread, these are place basically along the front edge (3) and rear edge (3) of the aquarium, and provide coverage to the entire reef. I run these for 5-6 hours mid day and they provide a boost of about 100-150 PAR during that period.
Along the lines of shred5's comments on UV above, there are things corals do to protect themselves from too much photosynthesis, and light-blocking pigmentation is one of them. I provide a period of "over the top" lighting to hopefully encourage this additional pigmentation, while allowing for over half of the illuminated period for "normal" photosynthesis levels of 300-350 PAR, where great growth rates hover around for the majority of photosynthetic coral I've plugged into this reef. I tend to give away frags to club members that are willing to come by and pick them up sometimes for a donation of frag plugs, and local shops as well (they reimburse me for the plugs, too, tho). Might as well put them to good use.
As an aside, the Tridacnid research paper I referenced many miles upthread truly is fascinating. It details how symbionts in the clam's mantle produce guanine crystals to shift the UV light spectrum from damaging wavelengths to those useful for photosynthesis. This also has a visible effect on the mantle's appearance. It really does make for good reading.
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ray :cool:
 

gideon2086

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
534
Reaction score
843
Location
High Point, North Carolina
@A. grandis - Perhaps your posts would sound a bit more plausible if they weren't so desperate-sounding. Simply state "In my experience over the past X number of years, I've used..." There would be no need post links to videos or some such ("appeals to authority") as you would simply be relaying your personal experience. As it is now, you might want to put a statement at the front of your posts affirming that you have no relation to any person or organization that is involved in the manufacture or sales of metal halide bulbs, fixtures, or entire systems, as many of your posts appear to be right up to that edge.
Here's an example based on me: I've got about 50 years of experience in freshwater, marine, and reef aquariums spanning from the days when regular incandescent bulbs were king. They passed the crown to regular fluorescent, that passed the crown to high pressure sodium (with a brief quartz halogen interlude), then to metal halide, VHO fluorescent, then LED. Light emitting plasma is still floundering around the edges and can be found in the same grow-shops that sell metal halide and heavy-lifting LED systems. I've purchased and used most of these systems, the exception being light emitting plasma. I read the research first on those and took a pass.
I had heated discussions with Bob Goemans in the front lobby of Saltwater Solutions in Tucson in the mid-late 80's on the virtues of metal halide over fluorescent lighting, especially when used with the recently-released Actinic 03 VHO T-12s (I used six-footers over my 100 and then my 225). I used halides for many years. I still have, as I noted earlier, six 250W electronic ballasts in my garage, along with a dual 150W ballast, and 6 individual mogul base fixtures along with a 3 bulb HQI canopy. They have been fired up to make sure they still work (they light up my Harley pretty well). They've been in the garage going on six or seven years now. If you'd like to buy them, please bring your pickup truck.
I'm going to apologize for the quality of the following pics, as I didn't "tidy up" the glass before taking them, and really just strolled around the reef with my phone to snap some shots. The perspective is looking down at about a 45' angle. These were taken with just the ViparSpectra fixtures on after "high noon" lighting had switched off. The nice thing about a 300 gallon is the sheer footprint of the reef and the space it provides for coral.
I grow all of the coral in this aquarium from frags, and if you look closely you can spot some that are freshly mounted on white epoxy. There are even a few Zoanthids and Palythoas in there, but they tend to like the more shaded areas in this reef. You'll notice the Actinodiscus tend to hug the edges of the reef as well, shying away from brighter light. If you'd like I can provide you some growth rate series, too. I've provided them to my local club in my build thread there. As an example, the bright green staghorn acropora affectionately nickname the "Bali Green Slimer" (Acropora yongei) was a 2 1/2" frag in April of last year. I'm kinda glad my tabling acros don't grow like that.
At any rate, enjoy my "just fine" LED-lit reef:

(Right side end view)


(Back of reef, right side)


(Back of reef, left side)


(Left side end view)


(Right front)


(Middle front)

Perhaps you could provide some pictures of your reef and the results you've gotten with your choice of lighting (and, of course, everything else that goes into a reef...)?

Cheers,
Ray :cool:
Edit: you just answered this, sorry.
 

rgulrich

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
97
Reaction score
181
Location
Marriottsville, MD
@shred5 - Agree with you on all counts. One of my friends in S AZ had a good scar on a forearm from working in an aquarium and not turning off and cooling down the bulbs first as well. I've singed a good number of fingerprints off in my time when I was more impatient (and immortal). ;Happy
Sometimes 'tis better to err on the side of caution...something it took me a long time to learn. Also why I don't do wheel-stands on my Superglide anymore, even though it really wants to at times...
Cheers,
Ray:cool:
 
BRS

jduong916

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
402
Reaction score
248
Location
Elk Grove
Almost all of the leds can grow coral. The cheap ones just as good as the expensive ones. The major difference is the functionality of the more expensive lights and the biggest thing imo is the color the expensive lights give. The black box tend to look more purple with less pop. They’ll grow coral great but the color of the tank is kinda bland. From what I’ve seen online the noopsyche lights are cheap and give off good color, now I haven’t seen them in person but the tank pics online show a color similar to more expensive fixtures.
 

Unregistered1

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
488
Reaction score
442
What were those sun pods or sun lights? They are basically like a sky light in your house roof with hvac tubing and everything lol. Harness the power of the sun and turn on your tan light above your tank. Aka metal halides. Lol.
Really ive read about people wanting to use these.
D
I thought about it when i first saw them in a house years ago.
 

nereefpat

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2018
Messages
4,276
Reaction score
4,871
Location
Central Nebraska
I hope this helps.
Cheers,
Ray :cool:
Very much so, thanks.

Your reef is excellent, and packed full of corals. You have addressed the issues that LEDs can have by using lots of fixtures, and the black boxes are themselves panel-like.

You're right. What you've done isn't cheap or easy, but is the best way to light a SPS tank if you're using LEDs.
 

A. grandis

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
3,325
Reaction score
1,847
@A. grandis - Perhaps your posts would sound a bit more plausible if they weren't so desperate-sounding. Simply state "In my experience over the past X number of years, I've used..." There would be no need post links to videos or some such ("appeals to authority") as you would simply be relaying your personal experience. As it is now, you might want to put a statement at the front of your posts affirming that you have no relation to any person or organization that is involved in the manufacture or sales of metal halide bulbs, fixtures, or entire systems, as many of your posts appear to be right up to that edge.
Here's an example based on me: I've got about 50 years of experience in freshwater, marine, and reef aquariums spanning from the days when regular incandescent bulbs were king. They passed the crown to regular fluorescent, that passed the crown to high pressure sodium (with a brief quartz halogen interlude), then to metal halide, VHO fluorescent, then LED. Light emitting plasma is still floundering around the edges and can be found in the same grow-shops that sell metal halide and heavy-lifting LED systems. I've purchased and used most of these systems, the exception being light emitting plasma. I read the research first on those and took a pass.
I had heated discussions with Bob Goemans in the front lobby of Saltwater Solutions in Tucson in the mid-late 80's on the virtues of metal halide over fluorescent lighting, especially when used with the recently-released Actinic 03 VHO T-12s (I used six-footers over my 100 and then my 225). I used halides for many years. I still have, as I noted earlier, six 250W electronic ballasts in my garage, along with a dual 150W ballast, and 6 individual mogul base fixtures along with a 3 bulb HQI canopy. They have been fired up to make sure they still work (they light up my Harley pretty well). They've been in the garage going on six or seven years now. If you'd like to buy them, please bring your pickup truck.
I'm going to apologize for the quality of the following pics, as I didn't "tidy up" the glass before taking them, and really just strolled around the reef with my phone to snap some shots. The perspective is looking down at about a 45' angle. These were taken with just the ViparSpectra fixtures on after "high noon" lighting had switched off. The nice thing about a 300 gallon is the sheer footprint of the reef and the space it provides for coral.
I grow all of the coral in this aquarium from frags, and if you look closely you can spot some that are freshly mounted on white epoxy. There are even a few Zoanthids and Palythoas in there, but they tend to like the more shaded areas in this reef. You'll notice the Actinodiscus tend to hug the edges of the reef as well, shying away from brighter light. If you'd like I can provide you some growth rate series, too. I've provided them to my local club in my build thread there. As an example, the bright green staghorn acropora affectionately nickname the "Bali Green Slimer" (Acropora yongei) was a 2 1/2" frag in April of last year. I'm kinda glad my tabling acros don't grow like that.
At any rate, enjoy my "just fine" LED-lit reef:

(Right side end view)


(Back of reef, right side)


(Back of reef, left side)


(Left side end view)


(Right front)


(Middle front)

Perhaps you could provide some pictures of your reef and the results you've gotten with your choice of lighting (and, of course, everything else that goes into a reef...)?

Cheers,
Ray :cool:
Bright halids over zoas.JPG

My apologies for the content of my system. We are not allowed to keep any hard corals. This is the only thing I can have legally here!

People like you should know what you are doing, right? Nice tank. Like I've said many times, I have many friends with amazing tanks using LEDs only. We don't fight about lighting. They ask me what I think their tank would look like under halides or T5s, but they don't change. And that is fine.

Newbies follow the trend. I'm sure, like you, many of the LED users didn't get exactly what I've been trying to propose all these years. I tried to expose in this tread again and again, but perhaps some of you are so focused in defending the "LED wagon" and put all the efforts in the other side of discussion. Bob Goemans was right when he told you halides were better than T5s, but it will depend on what results you want! The results are different. Did you get it now?
If you use halides over your tank the results will be different and you should know that by now! Do you have to change? NO!
I careless what type of lights people choose. I don't like the fact that halides have been diminished and LEDs are maximized using it as a step! Did you get it now? Selling LEDs gives moves more profit, but that shouldn't have to prohibit halide users to choose what they want to use.The market needs to be fair. All excuse they use aren't true, but what we see published.
The only reason why there are threads like this is because of the fake news of the market. This was the first time (as far as I remember) they published the unfair comparison. From there, most companies decided they would go for the easy extra money the trend would follow:
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

If Reefing was a school what letter grade do you think you would be making?

  • A

    Votes: 79 12.4%
  • B

    Votes: 270 42.5%
  • C

    Votes: 213 33.5%
  • D

    Votes: 46 7.2%
  • F

    Votes: 24 3.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 3 0.5%
TSM Aquatics
Top