Best return pumps in the industry: Who gets your vote?

Best Return Pump in the Industry

  • Abyzz

  • Blueline

  • Danner Mag Drive

  • Dolphin / Poseidon

  • Ecotech Vectra

  • Eheim

  • Fluval

  • Iwaki

  • Jebao / Jecod

  • Neptune

  • Pan World

  • Red Dragon

  • Reeflo

  • Reef Octopus VarioS

  • Sicce

  • Simplicity

  • Skimz

  • Waterblaster

  • Waveline

  • Other


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jcl123

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After the head loss through 3/4" flexible tubing I'd guess I'm around 1000gph. I never measured it but everything is working well.

I have one on a upc and it reads about 70 watts. They may be less efficient, but they can be guaranteed to start every time. That can't be said by a DC pump. They are also a fraction of the price of a DC pump and run for years and years.

The DCs may be more efficient but after the initial cost of them, it is probably a wash.

I don't disagree with you. I think basically there are no DC pumps with a long enough track record to have a good comparison, we are going to need some early adopters to give them a try for awhile.

I am seriously looking at these new Sicce AC advanced pumps.... basically just a more efficient AC pump. That might be the best of both.
 

jcl123

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I have had Vectras for 1 year 2 months (ish), I’ve had to send one pump back as it died, and have lost 2 or 3 power supplies. I’ve had the Sicce for 2 months (ish) and I am hopeful it will have a better track record. If you look at the reviews on bulk reef supply for the Vectras, well I’m not the only one with issues with the Vectras. I’m done with investing time and money in the Vectras, moving to Sicce, and if I have to Abyzz.

Was that the M1 or the L1?

I could go for an Abyzz, but someone is going to have to really talk me into it. Right now I am more inclined to go with the Sicce AC or DC pumps...
 

ksed

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C5041D7F-FA47-41E8-A75B-3D393CC51798.png


CAAE9A41-FB93-4110-916C-9B7585E84DB1.png
 

jasonrusso

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I don't know if it's the fact that the pump is AC or DC. I feel that it is the presence of a controller and the soft start that causes reliability issues.

A basic ac pump like a Eheim, Rio, mag drive, etc just blast full on without a care. The controllable pumps are too complex for for their own good in my opinion. It's nice to be able to dial it in, but if the power flickers and it stalls then it is worthless.

I do use the DC pumps for my UV light and reactors but not for my main returns.
 

danreefman

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I have an m1. It's super quiet, and has a lot of power. Even though I hear ecotech has great costumer service. I feel like I hear way to many problems about m1 + l1 going out. Regardless of how good costumer service is, costumer service is gonna make your pump get going again while your on vacation expecting your tank to do its thing.

Gonna get a red dragon and keep M1 for back up. Makes cleaning easier when you have a replacement to keep pumping.
 

gwainrig

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I have been keeping aquariums for almost 50 years. Have been doing saltwater for almost 40 years. Have used most of the pumps, but not dc pumps. I have used Little Giant external pumps for many years with minimal issues. They are a tried and true workhorse on my 180...
 

S-t-r-e-t-c-h

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I read this recently; interesting discussion, mostly focused on powerheads for flow:

https://reefs.com/2017/10/27/importance-water-movement-reef-aquarium/

What caught my attention was this comment from Terence Fugazzi of Neptune Systems:

AC power heads do have some advantages over DC, but I do not think they outweigh the pros of the DC pump. One, for instance, is that AC pumps can endure far more abuse, dirt, scale, etc. This is partly due to the fact that the tolerances in the motor design do not need to be so tight.

I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense...
 

ca1ore

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I would argue it's quite hard to make valid cost comparisons, particularly lifetime cost. DC probably more efficient than AC when considering gallons per watt, though head pressure muddies this. DC probably (definitely in some cases) more expensive initially than AC, though usable lifetime muddies this. I often wonder how many Jebao or Vectra replacements I'd have to have bought to match the 20 year usable lifetime of my Iwaki pump? Two, three, four ...... more.
 

Brew12

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Some of the most efficient motors in the world are AC.... Tesla is using them in their cars.
I know I say this all the time but there are no hobbyist level DC motors that we use in our aquariums. A DC motor MUST have an electrical connection to the rotor, normally through carbon brushes. If you can pull the rotor on a pump, it is not DC.

What we call DC motors/pumps are actually AC motors that have a controller which converts the AC power supply to DC and then back to a controlled form of AC. The AC sent to the motor can be modified any number of ways but it is never true DC.

DC pumps gain some efficiency due to the impeller design. The fact that they can start slower and ramp up allows the use of impellers that can exert more force at speed. On a regular AC pump, the same impeller design may prevent the motor from starting reliably due to the lower starting torque.

One advantage AC pumps have when it comes to efficiency is the lack of the controller. The heat generated by a controller is due to electrical loses within the controller. A pump without a controller does not have those loses. When comparing efficiency it is important to measure power at the outlet. Some DC manufacturers will advertise "pump efficiency" numbers which is after the controller.
 

ksed

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Here is a very basic comparison of a DC vs AC pump energy savings. Here is a similar brand with similar motor and rotor design.
Take a look at the wattage used by the 24v version vs the 120 v. I would rather talk in terms of voltage rather than AC/DC for reasons Brew mentioned above.
Take a look at the Sicce chart and you will see there are minor efficiency gains on the AC or 120v pump vs the DC or 24 v
Compare the 7.0 and 9.0 of both versions as flow and head are the same, only wattage changes.

3F6193A1-5E00-48BC-8D93-3D6F625A3232.png


EE4A6AD2-B759-4988-A01E-D1A3A7D997CB.jpeg
 

120reefkeeper

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I know I say this all the time but there are no hobbyist level DC motors that we use in our aquariums. A DC motor MUST have an electrical connection to the rotor, normally through carbon brushes. If you can pull the rotor on a pump, it is not DC.

What we call DC motors/pumps are actually AC motors that have a controller which converts the AC power supply to DC and then back to a controlled form of AC. The AC sent to the motor can be modified any number of ways but it is never true DC.

DC pumps gain some efficiency due to the impeller design. The fact that they can start slower and ramp up allows the use of impellers that can exert more force at speed. On a regular AC pump, the same impeller design may prevent the motor from starting reliably due to the lower starting torque.

One advantage AC pumps have when it comes to efficiency is the lack of the controller. The heat generated by a controller is due to electrical loses within the controller. A pump without a controller does not have those loses. When comparing efficiency it is important to measure power at the outlet. Some DC manufacturers will advertise "pump efficiency" numbers which is after the controller.

Exactly. [emoji6]
 

nashorn

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I have an old Mag pump that's been running non stop for 8 years. I got that used from a reef store and it was running there for a unknown time.
I was looking for a replace with a DC.
How reliable are DC pumps?
Didn't read whole thread so this question might have been covered.
 

siggy

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Older thread but for the last year I have been running a sicce and a Current DC, both are quiet the dc needs to be cleaned regularly or it has difficulty at startup after a WC, My new RO skimmer has the DC and its instant ON as a DC motor should be. I will be installing a core20 next week and am expecting more out of this one.

Edit: not sure of the tech behind these pumps and yes most may be adjustable frequency AC, but Brushless DC has been around for awhile, I worked for Ingersoll Rand in the late 80's and they held the patent then. I currently work on large DC conveyor drives and yes for heavy loads brushes are needed, we are changing over to A.F. AC
https://www.renesas.com/en-us/suppo...er-school/brushless-dc-motor-01-overview.html
 
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Brew12

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Edit: not sure of the tech behind these pumps and yes most may be adjustable frequency AC, but Brushless DC has been around for awhile
I want to make sure there isn't any confusion on this. From the link you posted

upload_2018-4-3_13-36-3.png


Notice the sloppily highlighted section. You adjust the magnitude and direction of the current. In other words, you apply AC.
 
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KMench

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I have a Nyos pump which seems to be pretty uncommon. It’s a little guy on my 75, but it’s quiet, was pretty cheap, and has yet to give me any problems. No complaints here :)
 

Sleepydoc

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I want to make sure there isn't any confusion on this. From the link you posted

upload_2018-4-3_13-36-3.png


Notice the sloppily highlighted section. You adjust the magnitude and direction of the current. In other words, you apply AC.

Yes. All motors need a means to change the field. Otherwise the rotor would simply turn 180º and then just sit there. With Brushed motors, the brushes contact the commutators that change the direction of the field as the rotor rotates. With brushless DC motors, you have to change the field direction on the stator windings which essentially means AC current (this is why all DC motors have a controller unit - it's a microprocessor that controls the voltage signal that goes to the motor.)
 

bubblemytip

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Eheim or tunze/Sicce for me. I have a small tank and no basement sump, though.

Previously I ran a Vectra M1 until it completely died on me at 16 months. It was great up till that point but not reliable enough

Now run a DC TUNZE connected to a battery backup and have an eheim return as a spare.

An abyzz would be nice to try sometime.
 

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