Beware of Vinegar - The Pump Killer

[Rmckoy]

Great write up .
thank you

it makes a lot of sense . Now I know why I’ve had to replace so many magnet impeller pumps .
I currently have a cheaper crossflow pump , have always used diluted vinegar to clean .

soaking for 15-30 mins while I scrub them
Rinse and put back in service .

 

[ScottB]

this is kinda unrelated, but I don’t wanna make a whole thread lol. I’m filling my tank right now, and am about to clean my equipment being used. Should I just use some hot water and rinse/ wipe all equipment before it being used in my tank tonight??

I suppose it depends on what you need to remove, and how easy you want that scrub to go. Citric acid solution is my "go to".

 

[Brooke24]

I suppose it depends on what you need to remove, and how easy you want that scrub to go. Citric acid solution is my "go to".

Thanks

 

[Rmckoy]

Should make this a sticky for everyone to read

 

[Sleepydoc]

this is kinda unrelated, but I don’t wanna make a whole thread lol. I’m filling my tank right now, and am about to clean my equipment being used. Should I just use some hot water and rinse/ wipe all equipment before it being used in my tank tonight??

If you’re just filling the tank then rinsing everything off with fresh water is fine. Acid (vinegar/muriatic/citric) is needed when you have deposits that have built up over time.

 

[SWherrey]

@redfishbluefish have you been having anymore issues with the wet sides after switching away from vinegar? I just ordered two MP40s :S

 

[Rmckoy]

I was looking for this post a few weeks ago .

 

[redfishbluefish]

@redfishbluefish have you been having anymore issues with the wet sides after switching away from vinegar? I just ordered two MP40s :S

No other issues.....but in fairness, I don't clean my wetsides as much and also realize it took a number of years for my wetsides to swell. It doesn't happen over night.

 

[drivingmecrazy]

Great write up! Sticky this please.

 

[Uzidaisies]

I think a cup of citric acid is around 200 grams, giving you roughly 11 cleanings at 1 cup powdered citric acid per gallon of water per cleaning.

 

[Haacheew]

Very informative. Thanks for the great write up.

 

[Fercho]

I have posted bits and piece of my vinegar story over the past three years, and I thought it would be beneficial if one post contained all that I've learn. You'll be surprised! This story will contain three parts; my history with vinegar, the cause and simplified chemistry what's happening; and the solution to cleaning your pumps without fear of swelling magnets.


MY STORY

I've been using MP's for many years, and as a good boy, cleaned the wetsides in vinegar (aka, acetic acid) to make them look good and function correctly. I had a very simple way of doing this by immersing the entire wetside in straight vinegar over night and then rinsing and putting back into service.

If anyone is interested, this small plastic container that perfectly fits an MP40 wetside is a one pint talenti ice cream (gelato) container....an overpriced ice cream my wife enjoys....too many times!

About three and a half years ago I found one of my MP40 wetsides slowly spinning. To be crystal clear, the entire wetside...cage and all, was spinning. When I pulled it out I found the magnet had swelled and was binding to the body of the powerhead, causing the entire thing to spin.

I wasn't a happy camper, but over the next couple months, two more were found with swollen magnets (plastic case either swollen and/or cracked), and now also not functioning.

Now this isn't just an MP thing. In retrospect, I had four Koralia Evolution powerheads before switching over to MP's. All four were dead in the water within a year of purchasing new. Two with obvious swollen magnetic portions of the impeller shaft, and two that I couldn't even get the impellers out of the body of the powerhead because they were swollen and stuck within the body. Note that these powerheads were also regularly cleaned in vinegar.

So I have a confession...."Bless me Father for I have sinned"....my wife didn't know what I paid for all the MP's I have...and now I need to go out and drop another $225 for three wetsides. I wasn't happy!!! Note, if I die, my wife will be selling MP40's for about $20 - $25, half of what I supposedly paid.

To finish this story, I later had three MP10's do the same thing. My wife will be selling these for $15 - $20 a piece. Now I know, with six MP's with new wetsides, you're all waiting for me to die!


WHY IMPLICATE VINEGAR

So I was puzzled why my overpriced MP's crapped out, and about six months after loosing my first MP, I came across a post by @Randy Holmes-Farley in which he posted:

"I think the effect on plastic may be worse with vinegar than muriatic acid but it may depend on the plastic.

Vinegar can be in the form of acetic acid and that neutral molecule can enter plastic. Diluted muriatic acid won't have any neutral acidic molecules in it to enter plastic, so just exposes the outermost leading edge of plastic. So while the muriatic acid after dilution is a much stronger acid, i would not assume it is worse on plastics."


This made perfect sense! To clarify, charged molecules won't penetrate plastic, but neutral small molecules will. I will repeat that saying it differently....ionic molecules will react at the surface while small neutral molecules will potentially penetrate that material.

If we look at acids in aqueous solution, they dissociate into ions, which is commonly shown as:

HA(aq) + H2O(l) ⇌ H3O+(aq) + A−(aq)

where HA is the acid. Note that the left side is "neutral" while the right side of the reaction contains "charged" molecules (ions). Specifically, for acetic acid (vinegar), this dissocation looks like this:

CH3COOH + H20 ⇌ H3O+ + CH3COO-

Now here's the kicker....some acids dissociate easily and readily while others dissociate very poorly. In the case of acetic acid, it dissociates very poorly, with the majority still in the neutral CH3COOH configuration. To repeat what I said above, charged ions do not penetrate, while small neutral molecules can.

So what is happening when you clean your parts in vinegar, is that it being neutral, has the abililty to penetrate the plastic and, if within the plastic is metal, cause it to oxidize (rust), and swell. Now this doesn't happen over night, or by one cleaning, but happens over time....months, maybe years, but it will happen. In addition, the type of plastic could impact how quickly (or slowly) the acid penetrates.

Don't get me wrong, vinegar is still great for cleaning tanks and pure plastic parts, but I'd avoid it with metal parts encased in plastic (impellers and pumps.) If the cages alone need to be cleaned of coraline, I'd still consider cages only to be soaked in vinegar. But plastic encased magnets...NO, NO, NO!


IF I CAN'T USE VINEGAR, WHAT AM I TO DO

So what can you use to clean your powerheads and pumps that won't potentially cause the magnets to rust and swell and ruin your pumps? We need to find acids that dissociate completely and/or are too large to penetrate the plastic.

Well there just happens to be two readily available acids available that are reasonably price, and in my opinion, with one, clean better (faster) than vinegar. These two acids are Muriatic Acid and Citric Acid.

Muriatic acid (dilute hydrochloric acid) is available at HD and pool stores (and I'm sure other places as well.) One note with muriatic acid, it is hydrochloric acid and needs to be handled with care. It will burn you, cause for holes in your cloths, and is dangerous. So wear rubber gloves, eye protection and be careful.

For cleaning tank parts, I'd recommend dilution 1 to 10. Even at this dilution, it will clean pumps and whatever, much faster than vinegar. You'll actually see the calcification fizz off the equipment.

The other acid that is pump safe is citric acid. You can find five pounds on ebay for a reasonable amount of money....a life time supply. Here you want to dilute about 1 cup to a gallon of water. Throw your pumps into this solution and allow to sit over night and you should find a cleaned pump


CONCLUSION

Vinegar, being a neutral acid, will penetrate plastics. If metal is encased in this plastic, it will find it's way and cause that metal to rust and swell. To avoid this, use other acids, such as muriatic acid or citratic acid to clean your pumps...and have them last forever!

This is all wrong.
Yes, vinegar will corrode your magnets most likely.
But what i found, specifically talking about #ecotech power-heads is that small starina stars find their way inside the pump housing where the magnet is.
Starina stars are hard as a piece of rock.
When the starina star makes contact with the spinning magnet it starts to wear off the plastic that protects the magnet.
To the point where the plastic splits from the friction between it and the starina star.
Then, saltwater gets inside making direct contact with the magnet and well, we all know saltwater corrodes the magnet. Making it swell up and further splitting the plastic that isolates the magnet to the point where it looks like it exploded.

I strongly believe that #ecotech marine does a very poor job at making sure no organisms make it inside where the magnet is spinning.
There are several openings on it and thats how the small stars make their way in.
#ecotech should re-engineer their pumps and make sure its fully sealed so no organisms get in.
If someone here knows someone at ecotech please share this with them.
Hopefully they will consider taking a look at this observation.

Just look at the pictures from the torn/ripped/exploded pumps.
You can see skid marks towards the center of the magnet near the screw.
That was done by a starina star or some other hard organism.
Vinegar is not the direct problem here.
It is the bad pump design that lets in hard shelled organisms, where they make contact with the spinning magnet scraping its protective plastic to the point where the water breaches its casing and ending up with a corroded magnet.

 

[Jesterrace]

It is an interesting writeup but I do think we need to address a few other issues here.

1) How often are you doing this vinegar water bath? You did mention you left it overnight (which is way too long IMHO), but you didn't address how frequently you are doing this.

2) What mix/ratio of Vinegar/Water were you using?

3) Do you completely rinse your powerheads (ie let them run in regular water for a while after the rinse)?

 

[Discotu]

you just saved me from potential long term issues! thanks!

 

[Mark Novack]

I use vinegar or decalcer but not over night. I let it sit ten minutes and then scrub and all comes off. The vinegar I use 1:1 with water. Its enough. The anti calc works its way under the deposits and loosens it quickly and it all comes off with a little mechanical effort. The magnets are all silicone sealed so its like easy peel shrimp. A stiff brush and the coraline rubs off.

 

[Sleepydoc]

I use vinegar or decalcer but not over night. I let it sit ten minutes and then scrub and all comes off. The vinegar I use 1:1 with water. Its enough. The anti calc works its way under the deposits and loosens it quickly and it all comes off with a little mechanical effort. The magnets are all silicone sealed so its like easy peel shrimp. A stiff brush and the coraline rubs off.

If the silicone seal is intact there will be no difference as vinegar doesn’t affect silicone. The potential issues arise from plastic.

I’ve switched to citric acid and found it to be much better overall. In addition to smelling better it’s faster. I never found 10 minutes to be enough with vinegar. Typically it needed much more time.

 

[Maxx]

I've switched to citric acid as well and havent seen any issues.
Anecdotally, I've used vinegar for years previously on various pumps to clean them and after a year or two, they stopped working.

I'll be using citric acid from here on out.
If vinegar is working for you, great, keep doing it.
I've had issues that cannot be attributed to anything else, I'll be using citric acid from here on.

 

[robertifly]

Please everyone remember only pour acid into water, NOT water into acid as a violent reaction can occur with the latter.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I might not be right about vinegar. It certainly makes sense chemically. But now I’m scratching my head. I’ve recently lost two more MP40 wetsides and don’t believe I ever cleaned them with vinegar. If I did, it was only a couple times. I talked about these two newer wetsides HERE. So now I’m at a loss of to why this is happening.

 

[andyman]

I might not be right about vinegar. It certainly makes sense chemically. But now I’m scratching my head. I’ve recently lost two more MP40 wetsides and don’t believe I ever cleaned them with vinegar. If I did, it was only a couple times. I talked about these two newer wetsides HERE. So now I’m at a loss of to why this is happening.

Let me get this straight, you are puzzled and don't think vinegar caused your 2 MP40 wet sides to fail. You start with saying you don't believe you ever used vinegar. Then your very next sentence you say you may have cleaned with vinegar a couple times. Not sure anyone can help you on this one.