Birmingham UK cryptic TMC reef habitat 60

[Lerequin]

Hi there, thanks for taking a look at my build thread, your comments and suggestions are welcome.

I studied biology and design (long story) and the last aquarium I built was a reef Berlin style system with a lot of DIY parts, including a HQI parking flood light, bare T5 balasts and the ensuite bathroom turned into a fish room Unfortunately/fortunately for my parents I had to break it when I moved on with my life.

Fast forward 20 years

During lockdown I've been planning and dreaming of this moment: when I'll have the space, a tank, the rock and most of the equipment I need (or so I think...) to start building my lil cube of ocean in the middle of the UK midlands.

Today is this day!! Let's build!

I'll do my best to document the build progress and hopefully share and get valuable insight in the process.

Equipment:

• TMC reef Habitat 60x50x50cm ~150L-40Gal
• Customised sump (see pictures)
• Lights: 2x 36W Spectra Aqua Knight V2 (for now...)
• Pump: DC 2500 L/h Jebao
• Circulation: Jebao gyre and nero clones with WiFi
• Extra cabinet for electricals and Auto Water Change (AWC).
• Dosing: Working on a reef-pi Leviathan controlling a slave Jebao dosing pump unit.

Intention
I'd like to build a mixed reef with filter feeders and macro-algae filtration. No mechanical filtration and little skimming, mostly for gaz-exchange.

I believe that consistency is the key to maintaining balance in such a small scale ecosystem and I also know myself... so the maintenance should be as automated as possible with an automatic water change, ATO, dosing and maybe even automated chilled food feeding for holidays if I can find a way.

Sump
There is not much space in my living room, so I almost chose an AIO tank with space underneath for the AWC and ATO jerrycans ... until I found out an unsused satellite cable hole in the wall. This will allow me to drain the AWC outside so I could accomodate a system with a sump, with an ATO section. The new sea water jerrycan fits in a small cabinet next to the tank. Additionally, I can also get fresh air in for the skimmer

The TMC reef habitat sump is divided in two zones which I'm dividing further with 3 sliding baffles cut in black acrylic sheet.
Here is the work in progress:

The left compartment will have constant water level, the level in the right compartment will depend on the pump.

I also have covers to completely close the sump so the light from the grow led does not spill on the cryptic zone.

So here is the question to cryptic zone and sponge fans: In which order should I place the live rock, chaeto and skimmer after the drain pipes?

I have seen different approaches sponge first or chaeto first.

Is Skimmer > sponges > chaeto a good choice?

 

[Subsea]

Cryptic sponges consume large volumes of dissolved organic carbon. The utility macro exudates are DOC.

As a simplification & generalization, coral DOC consists of lipids & proteins while algae DOC consist of carbohydrates. It is best to limit carbohydrate DOC if you are SPS heavy. Fifty years ago, I choose not to perform extra calcium maintenance required by SPS. I choose to go heavy with invertebrates like tunicates, Bryozone, ornamental sponges, flame scallops & sea apples.

Personally, I would leave the skimmer out with no filter socks that feeds refugium. Detritus is first step in producing food weds that convert organic & inorganic nutrients into feed live food to hungry mouths via the microbial loop.

With respect to gas exchange, it cannot be over emphasized how important the two way process of oxygen and carbon dioxide is Between water and air. My focus is on abundant flow at the display tank water surface. I get a secondary benefit of brisk flow at the surface: evaporative cooling equals 1000 BTU per pound of water. At about 8.4 lbs/G, each pound of evaporation causes 1000 BTU of cooling to water & air.

 

[Lerequin]

Hi @Subsea , thank you very much for your advice. Could tou confirm I get you right?

As a simplification & generalization, coral DOC consists of lipids & proteins while algae DOC consist of carbohydrates. It is best to limit carbohydrate DOC if you are SPS heavy.

If I understand you correctly you would not recommend to use chaetomorpha in conjunction with the sponge refugium ... or place the chaeto before the sponges so they can absorb the DOCs produced by the algae correct?

Personally, I would leave the skimmer out with no filter socks that feeds refugium. Detritus is first step in producing food weds that convert organic & inorganic nutrients into feed live food to hungry mouths via the microbial loop.

I definitely want to go lightly on the skimmer. From what I gathered (i.e Mez's) the skimmer removes a lot of plancton and particles that feeds filter feeders and the corals. But what about N and P export?
I'm counting on macro-algae for that.
Would rock and porous substrates be enough for de-nitrification?

 

[Lerequin]

Rockwork
I bought DD dry rock made from aragonite at the excellent Tees Reef LFS and had a great time breaking and supergluing the pieces.
I tried to build it so there is little shadowing, caves, shelves, swimming space flow and perspectives. Gosh

Here is the result

I used a cyanoacrylate accelerator and I am a bit worried about the toxicity of the product ... would soaking in RO water clear the stuff?

 

[ying yang]

Ha ha if put a little round stone on top of rock structure to the right then looks like a man and his cat lol

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

Looks great. SOTV

 

[NoahLikesFish]

Following. Intrested in how you are going to turn sterile live rock into a cryptic refugium tank

 

[Subsea]

Macro algae exudates of doc will feed sponges.

Consider air pumps and cascading water from display to refugium. I have a mud/algae EcoSystem refugium with three chambers. First chamber is reef rubble to maximize air exchange and break up detritus and flow into largest compartment with mud at the bottom. In 25 years, the depth has increased by .5” and it feels spongy to the touch. When converting from algae refugium to cryptic refugium I put egg-crate light diffuser to keep rock out of the mud.

This is the 75G tank that I just did switch over to 30G cryptic refugium.

 

[Subsea]

[I definitely want to go lightly on the skimmer. From what I gathered (i.e Mez's) the skimmer removes a lot of plancton and particles that feeds filter feeders and the corals. But what about N and P export?
I'm counting on macro-algae for that.
Would rock and porous substrates be enough for de-nitrification?]

@Lerequin

I don’t like skimmers for that reason. @Lasse runs his wet. Perhaps that doesn’t remove much of micro invert larvae that feeds hungry mouths and filter feeders.

Yes rock and substrate would do both nitrification and denitrification using different bacteria. While this is of primary importance during startup. As tank matures, detrivores in sandbed begin processing detritus into differrent food webs which consume inorganic & organic nutrients to sustain nutrient pathways via the “microbial loop”.

As my tanks have matured, nitrogen export is undesirable as nitrogen is recycled into coral & fish biomass. In fact, I dose ammonia every day into my systems. I recycle nutrients into desirable biomass. Once system approaches dynamic equilibrium, either frag and sell coral for nutrient export or cut back on nutrient input.

I would leave out utility algae in refugium and maximize live rock in cryptic refugium.

Depending on your aquascaping, use ornamental & utility macronin your display. First pictures are 75G display set up for 25yrs. Last pictures are of 55G tand set up for 2 months.

 

[ying yang]

I watched videos from these and brs about cryanoacturalite glue and accelerator and fine sand and even though i didnt use the accelerator i pretty sure brs and tidal gardens says once the chemical reaction has been made,it is then totally safe/ none toxic so dobt think you have anything to worry about buddy.
But for peace of mind you could soak or rinse in rodi water but dont think it nessaacary.i did literally hours and hours and hours of research first 5 years ago then about 3 months ago and big part of my reading/ videos watched was on aquascaping using ca glue and accelerators ( probably 50 hours total time lol)
On a side note i was just going use ca glue and
No mortar as the superglue seemed more than strong enough as i made 2 structures like 40 cm high and 30- 40cm wide and weighed quite a bit and could pick it up by top small rock and nothing broke apart.but then read that if use only glue and/ or accelerator then once it under the corrosive salt water then it can break apart over time as it losing some of its consistency or something like this so this why brs and tidal gardens both recommended using mortar to go over the seems after gluing and seen a few threads on this forum since i joined stating exactly the same and think it like it retains 80% of it strength after bern under salt water for a given time.there is info on the net about it and shear strength is different than tensile strength etc etc.i remember super glue adverts when younger lifting cars up with cranes as it strong that way but not as strong if push against it if get me.so for little extra money i would buy sone aquarium safe mortar.i used aquaforest stobe fix.
You can use normal mortar but need let it cure and keep doing lots water changes in the container your rocks are curing in to get rid of the bad stuff often for quite some time like few weeks - a month.
And pleased to meet a fellow brit.hello and welcome^_^

 

[ying yang]

Just before the 23 minute mark ryan briefly explains about why dont just use superglue/ accelerator and no mortar.

 

[Lerequin]

Ha ha if put a little round stone on top of rock structure to the right then looks like a man and his cat lol

Yeah! Or a dog lifting his leg up lol.

 

[Lerequin]

Oh wow thanks @ying yang! Cool video. I should have looked at the label on the accelerator before using it: carcinogenic, dangerous for aquatic life, flamable, toxic ... never seen so many orange labels on a spray can! I'll let it soak for a couple of days.

 

[Lerequin]

I like the macro algae in your display. I might try to grow blue hypnea.

 

[ying yang]

Oh wow thanks @ying yang! Cool video. I should have looked at the label on the accelerator before using it: carcinogenic, dangerous for aquatic life, flamable, toxic ... never seen so many orange labels on a spray can! I'll let it soak for a couple of days.

Your welcome,glad to be of service.
The first video from tidal gardens is only short but informative,but if you not watched the second video from brs yet,i would recommend watching it as very informative.it little long at 1 hour but i got lots useful advice/ tips from it.
Brs videos in general i like as i know they a business selling reef products but doesnt seem that way sometimes as some stock they sell they sometimes say you dont really need to buy this product and system can run better without it so like there honesty tbh.
I not got much experience with using products that say not safe for aquariums and if soaking for few days would then make it safe so wouldnt like to say.but some research on your part i would urge as it says not safe for aquatic life for a reason but maybe if soaked or after given time then it becomes safe if you lucky.like using none scented bleach to bleach/ kill all life of rocks will evaporate if left or left to soak for a given time.
There a guy on this forum called randy holmes farley i think his name is.under his name says reef chemist.he very knowledgeable guy when comes to chemistry and reactions along with alot of others here.if you get stuck or need little extra bit of advice,then you can always start a thread in the " chemistry forum" here and title it something to do with chemistry/ reactions and hopefully get his input.not just on the accelerator here but any chemistry related topics.like get right man for right job so to speak ha ha.
Anyway good luck and ne good to see your progress on your tank and the rock guy and his dog taking a wazz ^_^

 

[Smarkow]

Very cool! Following

There was a recent MACNA lecture on filter feeders/cryptics, and I think the speaker highlighted a company that provided a lot of the inverts

Will see if I can find it

 

[Lerequin]

Hello reefers It’s been a while and the tank has changed a LOT since my last post.
It’s going to be a long post. Where to start?

The sump

The goal was to have about 30cm constant water in the largest section to store as much live rock as possible and keep the sponges under water at all times.
The water level is determined by the moveable baffle in the cheeto/pump section.

The fixed maximum water level in the large chamber reduces the room for the overflow water when the return pump is off though.

If I could reduce the height of overflow in the main display to 2cm, this would require 11cm of height in the return pump/chaeto sump chamber and leave 17cm of water to grow macro-algae.

I added 10cm to the main drain pipe in the overflow box and siliconed the acrylic dividers leaving some wiggle room for the baffles to slide.
Also I inserted foam sheets to guide the water through the chambers so the water cannot flow directly to the return pump.

I filled up the tank, turned the pump on and …. drum roll …. and … it did not work as expected:
The water level in the skimmer chamber was lower than planned. With the pressure, and the wiggle room, the adjustable baffle was not making contact with the glass and water was leaking.
Also, a vortex formed above the drain pipe causing loud sucking noises and gurgling in the drain.

3D printer to the rescue
So I printed a support to keep the baffle tight and designed a cap for the drain pipe to prevent a vortex to form. It works well.

I also broke the pump/chaeto divider trying to drill holes. For now it is glued, I’ll print a better divider.

Here is how the sump looks like now

There is a bit of a light spill from the grow light to the rock/sponge chamber. I overlooked an obvious fact: glass conducts light. If I had to do it again, I would cover the whole sponge refugium with black acrylic and leave the rest clear.

Equipment update
I started to plan this tank 10 months ago and ordered stuff online before I even had a tank.
This was a mistake!
I did not listen to the advice found on reef 2 reef about investing in good equipment and thought I would be smarter: I lost money and time.
Well, one learns only from its own mistakes.

Skimmer
The cheap BOYU DT-2516 from Ali turned out to be a piece of junk: so noisy I could hear it from the bedroom upstairs, filling the display with micro-bubbles. Oh and the pump outlet was too small for the inlet in the skimmer.
See the bubbles and foam padding I added to try to dampen the vibrations.

So I though, let‘s get a second hand Nyos Quantum 120, it would fit and be so quiet. I found one for £150 on eBay. What a good deal! … it never arrived. Dispute, refund, and 1 month wasted.

So I went to my LFS (Tees’ Reef) and brought back a Tunze Comline 9004.
This is (almost) the perfect skimmer for my setup:
- Compact. I can cover the sump to limit noise and evaporation.
- Silent. There is a faint hum but nothing compared to the Boyu.
I connected the inlet to the airline coming from outside. The PH rose from 8 to 8.2.
The only issue I foresee is the small cup and absence of drain for holidays.

I told you this would be a long post. Grab a cup because there is more.

Lights
I bought a pair of Spectra AquaKnight v2 during black friday last year for £100 on Ali. What a good deal!
6 months forward, after I brought the tank home, the first thing I did was to mount the lights.
I let them run at full intensity while I was working on the sump when I heard a loud pop and smelled of burned plastic.
The left light was almost off so I rushed to the equipment cabinet and unplugged the power supply. The enclosure was burning hot and smelled strongly of burned electronics.
I was so lucky I was here when it happened. This could have turned into a nightmare.
The Ali return time was long gone, and none of my property was damaged, so I opened the power brick and found a burned fuse with burned marks.

These power supplies are barely sufficient to provide enough power for the maximum Led output. The components are certainly not the most efficient ones so they run hot under load. Also, there are no vents for cooling.
Keep these cheap power supplies from Ali express and chinese designed products well ventilated or avoid them!
The second adapter was also very very hot so I bought a waterproof all aluminium PSU and wired the two lights to it. It stays reasonably warm and I can leave the house without fear.

Automatic water change
I want the water parameters to stay as constant as possible so I’ll be changing 2L every day.
I use a double peristaltic pump which I calibrated so the level in a small glass of water remains constant.
The fresh water is stored in a 25L jerrycan and the waste water is expelled through a hole in the wall.

Cycling
I cycled the tank fish-less with UK produced Evolution Aqua Pure Reef balance balls and bits of shrimp.
I left a venturi running in the sump and the lights off.
I tested every day for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and every other day for PH, KH and phosphate.
The ammonia and nitrite levels were under 1mg/L and not consistent. There was no clear ammonia or nitrite peak.

After watching the excellent video from Macna with Dr Tom Hovanec, I lowered the salinity to 1020, rose the temperature to 26C and ordered Dr Tims’ one And only with ammonia to dose.

On week 2, hydroids started to appear on the glass and the sponges were growing on the piece of live rock.
On week 3, the nitrate levels were above 20mg/L and green algae started to appear.
After 4 weeks the ammonia and nitrite levels were consistently at zero, so I decided it was time to introduce fish and some cleanup crew.

Today

The clowns eat well, the two snails mow the algae and the blue hermit is … well it’s moving all the time.
I need to add snails, they tend to stay on the same bit of rock and ignore the rest.
What CUC would you recommend to take care of the algae on the sand?
Happy sunday, happy reefing!

 

[Jimbhoy13]

Hi. Welcome to R2R. I like your tank. It sounds like you know what you’re doing. The technical conversation lost me lol. But it seems as though you were getting good information from Subsea.
You can get the UK banner here: Click “Join User Group”, scroll to the bottom and click on “United Kingdom User Group‘’

 

[najer]

Fluval Evo 52 litre AIO, no mechanical filtration and no water changes, I like your plan.

 

[Lerequin]

Hi. Welcome to R2R. I like your tank. It sounds like you know what you’re doing. The technical conversation lost me lol. But it seems as though you were getting good information from Subsea.
You can get the UK banner here: Click “Join User Group”, scroll to the bottom and click on “United Kingdom User Group‘’

Hi. Welcome to R2R. I like your tank. It sounds like you know what you’re doing. The technical conversation lost me lol. But it seems as though you were getting good information from Subsea.
You can get the UK banner here: Click “Join User Group”, scroll to the bottom and click on “United Kingdom User Group‘’

Thanks