Black ick

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Daniel225

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If anyone has read my mystery fish death post i was wondering why 4 chromis would die in 1 day after being happy being cycled with the tank with atm colony for a month then suddenly die in same day leaving me only 2 left and after today only 1 left but after examining the recently dead chromis with a magnifying glass spotting some really tiny black dots all down the spine all in tail all under its jaw and between eyes could this be black ick? how long would it sit docile for Before killing fish? only thing that was added was blue cheek goby like a week prior to the 4 dying (all from same lfs) if it is black ick is there was definitive way to tell before I go dosing the tank with meds and doing more harm than good also what treatments are available for the whole tank (no corals yet but will be having some later down the road) ideally I just want to treat the DT and not qt the fish and sterilise the whole tank and start again
 
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Daniel225

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Update with pictures fish is very deflated as I recall was only 1 chromis out yesterday so must of died yesterday on 26th and I think he got torn up on rocks when I was getting him out as the flow was pushing him back into rock scape but I got some good pictures of these black spots I was talking about
 

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ying yang

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Hi Daniel from Yorkshire, I'm also a Yorkie from Bradford ^_^


@jlay hemdal is resident expert,sure he will answer you shortly now ive tagged him.

I know normal ich ,it isn't advised to dose copper in the dt if you want corals later on as copper kills inverts and the rocks can absorb it but saying that I did read a thread yesterday of way to remove copper and if memory serves me right there no cure for black ich if that's what you got as little known about it but don't quote me on that
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I’m from Pontefract way myself but always in Bradford as my lfs is radical reefs just hoping I can get it sorted its not the best way to start up my first big tank coming from nano tanks

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

That isn't black ich (turbellarians) on that chromis, looks more like melanophores - cells with black pigment that can expand or contract.

The fish does have severe damage to its caudal fin. Did this happen prior to death?

Jay
 
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Daniel225

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Welcome to Reef2Reef!

That isn't black ich (turbellarians) on that chromis, looks more like melanophores - cells with black pigment that can expand or contract.

The fish does have severe damage to its caudal fin. Did this happen prior to death?
thats somewhat of a relief but when could be causing them do die ? All was healthy before hand all of them looked beaten up after death but fine before death only got 1 in now and yesterday was happy swimming around all day but today is hiding and breathing rapidly even my blue cheek goby has strange behaviour swimming to the top of water surface and back to hiding
 

ying yang

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I’m from Pontefract way myself but always in Bradford as my lfs is radical reefs just hoping I can get it sorted its not the best way to start up my first big tank coming from nano tanks
Aw not to far away from my home city.im in liverpool now for last 13 years and even though only 67 miles away its like a different world ^_^

Jay replied here now so you in good hands.

I couldn't find the thread about dosing copper to the display tank and then how to remove it with large 90% water changes and adding metal absorbing pads but think possibly it was written by @ford4family ,umm doesn't seem I'm written his name correctly to tag him if it even was him who wrote it .
Jay says doesnt look like black ich,but if do ever consider dosing copper to a dt that you want corals/ inverts in at a later date I would research first as the majority feeling is DONT dose copper to dt with rocks in as they absorb the copper then leach it back out,some do say they Neen successfully getting the copper back out and keep inverts in tank successfully but I don't know enough about it and never tried it.but good luck with your tank ^_^
 

Jay Hemdal

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We used to quote the old Benny Hill gag about the one clawed lobster in the restaurant" "Well then, bring me the winner!". When you have a group of damsels and they start dying with chewed up fins, but one is left intact, suspicions fall on that fish. Green chromis are odd ducks in that they "shoal" but in some cases, they fight.

That said, the rapid breathing and the goby swimming near the top are alarming symptoms, combined with fish loss, and it becomes even more serious.

Three things come to mind:
water quality issues (this seems to be a new tank, do you know the ammonia reading?)

Low dissolved oxygen/high CO2, that shouldn't have just popped up like that, but adding an air stone to the tank will help with the symptoms.

Finally, the thing I'm most worried about: a gill disease, such as Amyloodinium, velvet. Treating that requires copper in a treatment tank, and to be perfectly honest, if that is the issue here, once fish start to die from it, you often cannot treat the remaining fish fast enough to save them. You might be able to buy some time by giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip and then setting up a copper treatment, but be forewarned that a FW dip, given to a really sick fish, may just push it over the edge.

Jay
 
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ying yang

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@4FordFamily hi there,was it you who started a threa a couple of years ago about adding copper to a display tank then doing large wc's and adding metal removing pads to remove the copper then can add inverts,I just looked through all your previous threads but couldn't find it so probably wasn't you,I just remembered person had a staff member banner,and now curious who wrote the thread is all
 
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Daniel225

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We used to quote the old Benny Hill gag about the one clawed lobster in the restaurant" "Well then, bring me the winner!". When you have a group of damsels and they start dying with chewed up fins, but one is left intact, suspicions fall on that fish. Green chromis are odd ducks in that they "shoal" but in some cases, they fight.

That said, the rapid breathing and the goby swimming near the top are alarming symptoms, combined with fish loss, and it becomes even more serious.

Three things come to mind:
water quality issues (this seems to be a new tank, do you know the ammonia reading?)

Low dissolved oxygen/high CO2, that shouldn't have just popped up like that, but adding an air stone to the tank will help with the symptoms.

Finally, the thing I'm most worried about: a gill disease, such as Amyloodinium, velvet. Treating that requires copper in a treatment tank, and to be perfectly honest, if that is the issue here, once fish start to die from it, you often cannot treat the remaining fish fast enough to save them. You might be able to buy some time by giving the fish a 5 minute FW dip and then setting up a copper treatment, but be forewarned that a FW dip, given to a really sick fish, may just push it over the edge.

Jay
Water quality good but I have api test kit so might get the lfs to test the water

I have skimmer running 24/7 and wavemaker is close to surface so has movement of water at top if I was to add air stone would it be in sump or DT ? Also might be interested one anyway as I was reading that keeping it outside and running the air into the tank can raise the ph and mine is sitting at 6/7 (again api you can’t really tell) and think ideally it should be between 8 and 9? Either way this could help with ph in long run

as for Gill disease I can run the new air stone and Heater in my bucket that come with salt it’s a 25ltr my main concern with the black spot was that it could be in substrate etc and people was saying leave the tank fishless for 3 months minimum and I didn’t have anywhere to store fish for 3 months wouldn't be fair in a bucket and no skimmer etc

so I’ll order the air stone extra oxgen and hopefully raise the ph and then talk to lfs get water tested there and look into copper dosing in the bucket if my parameters are fine I got 2 conch snails how will I go about treating those are will they be fine to stay in tank While others are treated?
 

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I made a video on black ich on blue green chormis in my qt for 10 days ago in this comment.
I finished dosing 2 general cure and just waiting it out. I could do one last dose of prazipro just in case.
You can really see the black spots
 

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Im getting a feeling that this may be a new/newer tank - correct?
How were fish acclimated and for how long assuming no quarantine. As stated by Jay, rapid breathing indicated gills irritation or Water quality. If no quarantine, you can give them a 60-90 minute bath in ruby rally reef or quick cure to in a sense of speaking " Cleanse them".
Before adding any more livestock, I would continue cycle a little longer, add liquid bacteria such as Bacter XLM and monitor water quality with a reliable test kit(s). API will be one of the worse kits you'll endure.

What filter method are you using?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Ammonia < .025
nitrate < .05
salinity 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-79
PH 8.1-8.3
 
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Daniel225

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Im getting a feeling that this may be a new/newer tank - correct?
How were fish acclimated and for how long assuming no quarantine. As stated by Jay, rapid breathing indicated gills irritation or Water quality. If no quarantine, you can give them a 60-90 minute bath in ruby rally reef or quick cure to in a sense of speaking " Cleanse them".
Before adding any more livestock, I would continue cycle a little longer, add liquid bacteria such as Bacter XLM and monitor water quality with a reliable test kit(s). API will be one of the worse kits you'll endure.

What filter method are you using?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Ammonia < .025
nitrate < .05
salinity 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-79
PH 8.1-8

yes it’s a new tank cycled with atm colony and adding fish at same time 1 month ago

fish was acclimated by floating bag to match temp for 30mins and then 1/2 cup water every 30 minutes for 2 hours they wasn’t quarantined as these was first fish going in and I thought they would be fine and they was fine in lfs … I can see why this was a bad idea now I’ll be catching these and treating them if waterquality Is not to blame and QT and new fish that enter

i need to invest in a decent test kit and probably will move onto Salifert as far as I could tell the tank cycled with atm colony but I never had any spikes in ammonia etc 1 1/2 week ago I got diatom bloom and now that’s gone tanks growing green hair algae slowly

and I’m making my own rodi water and it’s outputting at 0tds and mixing it in food grade storage barrel with heater and pump and mixing tropic Marin salt
 
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Jay Hemdal

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I made a video on black ich on blue green chormis in my qt for 10 days ago in this comment.
I finished dosing 2 general cure and just waiting it out. I could do one last dose of prazipro just in case.
You can really see the black spots

Water quality good but I have api test kit so might get the lfs to test the water

I have skimmer running 24/7 and wavemaker is close to surface so has movement of water at top if I was to add air stone would it be in sump or DT ? Also might be interested one anyway as I was reading that keeping it outside and running the air into the tank can raise the ph and mine is sitting at 6/7 (again api you can’t really tell) and think ideally it should be between 8 and 9? Either way this could help with ph in long run

as for Gill disease I can run the new air stone and Heater in my bucket that come with salt it’s a 25ltr my main concern with the black spot was that it could be in substrate etc and people was saying leave the tank fishless for 3 months minimum and I didn’t have anywhere to store fish for 3 months wouldn't be fair in a bucket and no skimmer etc

so I’ll order the air stone extra oxgen and hopefully raise the ph and then talk to lfs get water tested there and look into copper dosing in the bucket if my parameters are fine I got 2 conch snails how will I go about treating those are will they be fine to stay in tank While others are treated?

I don't see black ich in either of these images. Turbellarians do not respond to praziquantel. They also don't cause rapid breathing. The best treatments for black ich/turbellarians are FW dips or formalin dips, and then move to a clean tank.

I'm worried that the rapidly breathing fish here have a gill infection, most likely velvet.

Jay
 
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Daniel225

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Last fish has taken turn for worst now should I try a FW dip not that it will do much if my water parameters are bad I have a nano I could place him in after I fw dip but if it’s disease then I’m just going to pollute my nano tank
 
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Daniel225

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Im getting a feeling that this may be a new/newer tank - correct?
How were fish acclimated and for how long assuming no quarantine. As stated by Jay, rapid breathing indicated gills irritation or Water quality. If no quarantine, you can give them a 60-90 minute bath in ruby rally reef or quick cure to in a sense of speaking " Cleanse them".
Before adding any more livestock, I would continue cycle a little longer, add liquid bacteria such as Bacter XLM and monitor water quality with a reliable test kit(s). API will be one of the worse kits you'll endure.

What filter method are you using?
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ?

Ammonia < .025
nitrate < .05
salinity 1.024-1.025
Temp 77-79
PH 8.1-8.3
Don’t suppose you have a link for the ruby reef rally cant find any result for uk stock
 

vetteguy53081

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Don’t suppose you have a link for the ruby reef rally cant find any result for uk stock
Rubyreef.com
Click on find retailers or contact customer service

840A034B-DD21-427A-BFFA-689D99E66C36.png
 

4FordFamily

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@4FordFamily hi there,was it you who started a threa a couple of years ago about adding copper to a display tank then doing large wc's and adding metal removing pads to remove the copper then can add inverts,I just looked through all your previous threads but couldn't find it so probably wasn't you,I just remembered person had a staff member banner,and now curious who wrote the thread is all
It was me. I still don’t recommend it but I did it! Cuprisorb and carbon and a lot of time and giant water changes and new media :)
 
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