Black/White spots on fins, help with ID

[David M.]

This seemingly popped up overnight on my Magnificent Foxface. One black spot on the tail fin and one white spot on the pectoral. My first thought is fin rot, but I'm far from a disease expert and would love some help.

For some context, I've had this fish for about four months and had a small ich outbreak during the first month of ownership (Assumedly came in with a fish that did not make it). The ich was minimal and has been since kept under control (no visible spots on any fish) with heavy nutritious feeding and a 40w UV sterilizer.

Feeding is twice a day with various foods. Frozen (mysis, plankton, krill, emerald entre, fish eggs, clam, and more) is rotated daily with selcon and garlic guard. Along with SA pellets as the staple.

Details below, happy to provide anything else that would help

Other tank inhabitants: (All healthy, eating well and no signs of disease and/or distress)
Blue Throat Trigger
Bengai Cardinal x5
Purple Firefish
Banded Goby
Extreme Snowflake Clown x2
Midas Blenny
6 Line Wrasse
Chalk Bass x3

Parameters:
Temp: Stable 77.7 with a .2 degree swing daily
Salinity: 1.023 (Low for my liking, will slowly raise to 1.026. Though not something that should effect fish in this way)
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 (This surprised me, I feed quite heavy. I do have heavy nutrient export with GFO and an oversized skimmer though)
Phosphates: .02

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't see anything alarming on the foxface. I do see some minimal fin damage (some of it looks healed already). I wonder if what you are seeing are just some minor knocks and bumps? Maybe it tangled with the trigger a bit?
That said - ich can remain simmering in a tank for quite some time, so you'll always want to be watchful of that cropping back up again.

Water quality-wise, I'm trying to reconcile the relatively high ORP and the flat pH level. That isn't why the fish has spots, just something I saw....how is the aeration in the tank and when was the last time you calibrated the ORP probe?


Jay

 

[David M.]

I don't see anything alarming on the foxface. I do see some minimal fin damage (some of it looks healed already). I wonder if what you are seeing are just some minor knocks and bumps? Maybe it tangled with the trigger a bit?
That said - ich can remain simmering in a tank for quite some time, so you'll always want to be watchful of that cropping back up again.

Water quality-wise, I'm trying to reconcile the relatively high ORP and the flat pH level. That isn't why the fish has spots, just something I saw....how is the aeration in the tank and when was the last time you calibrated the ORP probe?


Jay

It very well could be minimal damage, the Foxface likes to hang out very close to my two large elegance coral so stings are a potential as well. The Foxface and the Trigger also hang out and swim around the tank together, though I havent seen any signs of aggression between the two thus far. The Foxface did come to me with damage to its tail fin, which has healed nicely.

The ORP probe was calibrated about two months ago when I installed it, here's a 7 day comparison of PH vs. ORP if that helps. Aeration in the tank is good, imo, lots of water movement and surface breaking in the sump. Is there something you think I need to adjust in that sense?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It very well could be minimal damage, the Foxface likes to hang out very close to my two large elegance coral so stings are a potential as well. The Foxface and the Trigger also hang out and swim around the tank together, though I havent seen any signs of aggression between the two thus far. The Foxface did come to me with damage to its tail fin, which has healed nicely.

The ORP probe was calibrated about two months ago when I installed it, here's a 7 day comparison of PH vs. ORP if that helps. Aeration in the tank is good, imo, lots of water movement and surface breaking in the sump. Is there something you think I need to adjust in that sense?

I'm just not used to seeing ORP values above around 380 unless ozone is being used. I also try to keep a pH more close to 8.0, but carbon dioxide will influence that, so that's why I asked about aeration.

Jay

 

[David M.]

A new spot popped up overnight, on the rear of the dorsal fin. Looks black around the edges and white on the inside. I'm confident this isn't ich but I can't decide if it's damage or something more concerning.

 

[David M.]

Another oddity, the spot that was on the tip of its dorsal fin yesterday appears to be gone. I watched it a lot yesterday and the spot began looking like ich, a white bump, but later in the day it started to fall off and this morning it's gone.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Really looks to me like lymphocystis. Lympho is a viral condition often associated with either poor water quality and/or diet.
What foods are you feeding?
What test kits are you using ?

Lympho will appear and eventually fall off if conditions are good and fish is healthy. I take it, no other fish have it, yes?
As Jay indicated, I see nothing else that jumps out to say " uh oh".

 

[David M.]

Really looks to me like lymphocystis. Lympho is a viral condition often associated with either poor water quality and/or diet.
What foods are you feeding?
What test kits are you using ?

Lympho will appear and eventually fall off if conditions are good and fish is healthy. I take it, no other fish have it, yes?
As Jay indicated, I see nothing else that jumps out to say " uh oh".

Currently I rotate through a lot of frozen foods and pellets. I use the San Francisco Bay multi-packs (plankton, emerald entrée, marine cuisine, fish eggs, brine, etc), Hikari mysis, and Hikari clams on the half shell. Frozen foods are soaked in Selcon daily and Garlic Guard at least once a week. The second daily feeding is Sustainable Aquatics pellet food, the Hatchery Diet.

My test kits are all Red Sea. You are correct, no other fish have it. And it's behavior is normal thus far. Swimming and eating perfectly fine.

Is it possible I'm using Selcon too frequently and it's having an adverse effect?

Another consideration would be recent changes in the tank. Last week I added the Blue Throat Trigger, Banded Goby, and 6 Line Wrasse. Along with a first feeding of Reef Roids + Benepets (target, not broadcast), though these feedings were relatively small as I was testing the foods for the first time.

 

[David M.]

Reading up on Lymphocystis, this has me wondering if some of the new additions brought it into the tank.

"As like many other aquatic viruses, lymphocystis can spread horizontally throughout a system through infected water. Lymphocystis has a latent stage, where a fish may be carrying the virus, but not show any clinical signs."

This portion is also concerning:
"Once a fish is carrying lymphocystis, it will carry the virus for life and can potentially spread it to any other fishes in the same system."

 

[vetteguy53081]

Reading up on Lymphocystis, this has me wondering if some of the new additions brought it into the tank.

"As like many other aquatic viruses, lymphocystis can spread horizontally throughout a system through infected water. Lymphocystis has a latent stage, where a fish may be carrying the virus, but not show any clinical signs."

This portion is also concerning:
"Once a fish is carrying lymphocystis, it will carry the virus for life and can potentially spread it to any other fishes in the same system."

Well, lympho has no fallow period but if water is good and proper diet given, chances reduced

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Another oddity, the spot that was on the tip of its dorsal fin yesterday appears to be gone. I watched it a lot yesterday and the spot began looking like ich, a white bump, but later in the day it started to fall off and this morning it's gone.

Take care - ich will do that! The trophonts drop off and the fish looks fine, but then new theronts attack and turn into new trophonts and the spots return.

The spot with the ring around it on the rear of the dorsal fin - that isn't ich, Lymphocystis or flukes. The dark ring is granulomatous tissue, fish develop that at a site of some injury or infection, it is often a sign of tissue healing.

Jay

 

[David M.]

Take care - ich will do that! The trophonts drop off and the fish looks fine, but then new theronts attack and turn into new trophonts and the spots return.

The spot with the ring around it on the rear of the dorsal fin - that isn't ich, Lymphocystis or flukes. The dark ring is granulomatous tissue, fish develop that at a site of some injury or infection, it is often a sign of tissue healing.

Jay

Thank you so much for the help. I'll keep an eye out for flukes and be ready to treat as well.