Blackout question

[KimG]

Hi
For those who have done blackouts in their tanks, did you see a nutrient spike in the system during/after the black out?
If so how much of a spike? Nitrate or phosphate? Or both?

Currently toying with the idea of doing a blackout on my tank as I currently have an algae issue that I cannot identify, plus nutrients that will not rise:

Help id algae

Dear all I would like to ask you for help identifying this algae. A bit of a background. We set up the aquarium last august. In December the silicon failed and we had to restart it (all rock, media from the sump, fish and coral where transferred over). Originally everything was doing great. We...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the feedback

 

[Copingwithpods]

I never saw a spike of either as I extended the photo period on the refugium by 4 hours during the time of the blackout(4 days) but I'm sure there was one because my cheato grew well in that period. I did stop dosing alk and cal as consumption of both dropped to zero so if you are dosing and not monitored you could see a big spike in both. The refugium helped keep pH up but it still dropped over all by 0.4 not that big of a deal unless you have low pH to start with.

 

[KimG]

I never saw a spike of either as I extended the photo period on the refugium by 4 hours during the time of the blackout(4 days) but I'm sure there was one because my cheato grew well in that period. I did stop dosing alk and cal as consumption of both dropped to zero so if you are dosing and not monitored you could see a big spike in both. The refugium helped keep pH up but it still dropped over all by 0.4 not that big of a deal unless you have low pH to start with.

Thanks Copingwithpods
So you kept the refugium with light?
How did the black out work for you ? Did it solve the problem? or at least knocked it back some?

 

[SPR1968]

I’ve done a 3 day blackout a couple of times with no issues and the tank came back looking clean as anything. And there was no spike in anything.

The blackout was just lights off and curtains closed (no tank wrap) and really its just like a storm in the ocean

Leave everything running as normal including skimmers etc

 

[Copingwithpods]

Thanks Copingwithpods
So you kept the refugium with light?
How did the black out work for you ? Did it solve the problem? or at least knocked it back some?

Blackouts are like a hailmary pass sometimes they work sometimes they don't. Remember the corals are more than used to dealing with prolonged periods of no light, but so is the algae. A blackout in most cases will move the peg back on the board by a few spaces giving you more time to implement your actual plan of getting rid of it.

For me every blackout I've done has been a success in that it slowed or stopped the growth of algae, weakened most and killed off some and left me a tank with algae on its last leg I could then knock out.

My last one was for bryopsis, did a 4 day blackout, kept my fuge online to soak up the die off and after day four started spot treating what was left with h2o2. The blackout alone didn't kill the bryopsis but it vastly reduced the time I had to spot treat. It also help to get rid of alot of other algaes as well which gave my encrusting algae time to catch up.

 

[KimG]

Blackouts are like a hailmary pass sometimes they work sometimes they don't. Remember the corals are more than used to dealing with prolonged periods of no light, but so is the algae. A blackout in most cases will move the peg back on the board by a few spaces giving you more time to implement your actual plan of getting rid of it.

For me every blackout I've done has been a success in that it slowed or stopped the growth of algae, weakened most and killed off some and left me a tank with algae on its last leg I could then knock out.

My last one was for bryopsis, did a 4 day blackout, kept my fuge online to soak up the die off and after day four started spot treating what was left with h2o2. The blackout alone didn't kill the bryopsis but it vastly reduced the time I had to spot treat. It also help to get rid of alot of other algaes as well which gave my encrusting algae time to catch up.

Yes, I know.
Unfortunately don't really have a solid plan, since I don't really know what algae I'm dealing with. So far no luck identifying it. I do have some Dinos, but not sure just how bad they are in relation to the main green algae.
I also need to raise my Nitrate and Phosphate, but so far they are all being consumed. Nitrate is slowly rising, but phosphate is all being consumed at stays at 0.
Hoping the black out knocks it back a bit and lets the phosphate and nitrate rise a bit.

 

[KimG]

I’ve done a 3 day blackout a couple of times with no issues and the tank came back looking clean as anything. And there was no spike in anything.

The blackout was just lights off and curtains closed (no tank wrap) and really its just like a storm in the ocean

Leave everything running as normal including skimmers etc

Hi SPR1968
Thanks for the feedback.
Can I ask what algae you were dealing with?
So, even just like that you manage to knock it all back?
Unfortunately I believe I will have to cover it, at least a bit, since my leaving room faces south, with windows facing east, south and west, so plenty of natural light inside. (no direct light in the tank).

Again, thank you all for the help

 

[Copingwithpods]

Yes, I know.
Unfortunately don't really have a solid plan, since I don't really know what algae I'm dealing with. So far no luck identifying it. I do have some Dinos, but not sure just how bad they are in relation to the main green algae.
I also need to raise my Nitrate and Phosphate, but so far they are all being consumed. Nitrate is slowly rising, but phosphate is all being consumed at stays at 0.
Hoping the black out knocks it back a bit and lets the phosphate and nitrate rise a bit.

Can you post it here along with your tanks info, para, inhabitants? Maybe we can help.

 

[KimG]

Can you post it here along with your tanks info, para, inhabitants? Maybe we can help.

Hi Copingwithpods
Thanks for the help.

The link is above.

Help id algae

Dear all I would like to ask you for help identifying this algae. A bit of a background. We set up the aquarium last august. In December the silicon failed and we had to restart it (all rock, media from the sump, fish and coral where transferred over). Originally everything was doing great. We...

www.reef2reef.com

Currently most algae identified, but the main algae continues to be unknown.....
The tank is an Innovative marine SR80.
Currently stocked with 2 black and white clowns, 2 madarins, 2 lyratail anthias, 1 fire fish, 1 tail spoted blenny and two fire shrimp. mix of LPS and SPS frags. All LPS apart from the Chalice are doing great (getting fed almost everyday). SPS had a stn event starting about a month ago. I think due to low nutrients (nitrate below 1 and phosphate at 0). We fraged everything and have been trying to increase nutrients by feeding more, but so far not much of an increase. The STN seems to have stopped, or at least slowed down. The acro frags (probably the most sensitive) are regaining color and the stylophora as healed most of the areas were it was fraged, however the algae continues to expand over them.
The remaining parameters have been stable:
Alk 8.3
Calcium 390
Mag 1350
RO water with 0 tds

Thanks for the help

 

[Copingwithpods]

I had that exact one I'll post some pics and my story with that one when I get home

 

[KimG]

I had that exact one I'll post some pics and my story with that one when I get home

Oooo, so many questions.....
ok, I will wait for your post

If you can post it on the other topic with the actual pictures of the algae. It could be easier to find if someone else has the same problem.

Again, thanks so much for the help.

 

[Copingwithpods]

I don't know if I'll post in that thread as I never got a positive id and I don't want to clog that thread up. I also don't have pictures of it in full bloom but when mine was it looked 100% like yours bubbles and everything. It was all over my glass, sand, snails, crabs and none of them would touch it.

Just read through your thread and let me say that my infestation was nowhere near as bad as yours I also caught it much earlier , even your water had a green tinge to it. I run a UV 24/7 since start of tank so that might have something to do with the speed at which it took over. I also don't run an ATS I run a fuge with cheato.

Here you can see small young patches

Pic was early in the morning before it got bad. At this point I was scrubbing and syphoning it out with water changes which I think kept it at bay.

Back then I figured it was the tank transfer that triggered some uglys and I didn't think anything of it until I noticed light feedings, toothbrush scrubbing , blowing it off with a turkey baster and cuc was not working. It just came back the next day. Above I mentioned the 4 day total blackout killed not only the bryopsis but other algaes, this was one of the first ones to go around day 3. As I kept my fuge online it became a mess (nasty slime everywhere) and I had to clean it and my cheato almost daily. Cheato looked like snot.

My blackout was 112 hours total. Fully blacked out with black poster paper covering the glass and the top of the tank so not even the room light would feed anything.

When the lights finally came on my tank (although still had some gha and bryopsis) was clean, the sand was clean and my glass was spotless. For a few weeks everything was OK until I had an alk spike that killed all my encrusting algae. This brought it back but by this time I had almost doubled my cuc and had purchased the one thing I believed killed it before it had a chance to take over again. A long spine urchin. I don't think he eats it but he does remove it from the rock as he eats right down to bare rock. The 3 spots I've seen are now gone and it hasn't returned.

Before urchin


After urchin

The dude is an absolute unit.

So what can you take away from this? Not much, I beat it by catching it early, proactively getting rid of it with UV, manual removal and water changes, blackout and maybe killing it by proxy as I blasted gha and bryopsis with h2o2. Hold on for part 2

 

[Copingwithpods]

Here's what I think will work for you if it isn't identified as green cyano as it is very possible (I thought mine was for a while).

Here's what I see that IMHO is flawed.

Your heavy feeding with sustained low nutrients is only feeding the algae. The more you feed the more algae you see so this is telling you something needs to change. It's fair to say that trying to kill an algae that is sucking up nutrients by adding more nutrients is never going to work. Any algae will outcompete a coral for food and space as they multiply and grow much faster, trying to feed more and more is a losing battle.

I suggest prior to a blackout manually removing as much as humanly possible via toothbrush, turkey baster, brine shrimp net ( picks up floating bits) and syphoning all this out with a large water change. Note this might have to be done more than once. After this do your black out. This gives the blackout a fighting chance. After the blackout your tank will look 10 years younger, it's easy to relax now and be lulled into easing off, oh no now is the time to keep attacking it if you see it. If you have alot of algae die off a water change and syphoning will stop the surviving algae to use these nutrients to take over again. Remember all algaes need nutrients and light, blackout denies them the light so after that we need to deny them the nutrients. Believe it or not as of now you run a high nutrient system. Don't over feed and don't feed your corals for a while. If alk and cal consumption drops they are stressed and not eating anyway. If this doesn't work or atleast help significantly I'll eat my phone.

I like what brs says about huge breakouts like these "it took you weeks to get into it so expect it to takes weeks to get out of it" I'm not a fan of chemicals, I'd rather try other avenues before resorting to those but...... BUT if you must, do it, I've heard great things about chemi clean and vibrant.

Really hope this works out for you bud

 

[Copingwithpods]

A while back I bookmarked a few pages to help me I'd it, just remembered this guy.

Possible, looks very familiar.

 

[KimG]

Thanks for the help
By the description it looks similar.
Its not so bad in the water. It as been pretty clear. I think the photos are misleading in that sense. I grows like crazy on the glass as well and after a day or two when I clean it from the glass it comes out as a sheet. Thats probably the green color you are seeing.

I'm trying to stay away from chemicals as well, especially since I don't know what it is for sure.

I agree that killing an algae by providing it more food is not very sensible. However, I already had very low numbers before the algae (nitrate below 1 and phosphate at 0). The STN event started before the algae, so for now I'm just trying to get the corals to survive. It seems to be helping since I'm seeing a bit more polyp extension and the acro frags are regaining color. Also, I'm sure I have dinos (as per the picture in the other post), and they thrive in low nutrients. So I do need to raise Nitrate and phosphate a bit.
I have cleaned as much as I could and I have started a black out period. I'm also filtering the the water through a 1 micro filter cartridge. Hopefully that will catch what goes on the water phase.

I don't expect this to be the last I will see of the algae, but I hope it will buy time for the corals to get back it to better shape and at least hopefully drive the dinos a bit down.
Thanks for help. I will re update this thread after the black out.

 

[KimG]

A quick update.

Run the black out for 3 days.
Most algae is gone, including the small cells that I could not identify. Some green cyanobacteria and Dinos left I believe (pictures in the other post).
Regarding the question I had posed here, I did get an increase in Nitrate (from 2.5 to 10) but no phosphate increase. Currently dosing sodium phosphate.

Now the hard part begins, keeping clean of algae.
Thanks everyone for the help.


Before

After

 

[Copingwithpods]

Alright! Glad it worked out for you

 

[BuddyBonButt]

Blackouts are like a hailmary pass sometimes they work sometimes they don't. Remember the corals are more than used to dealing with prolonged periods of no light, but so is the algae. A blackout in most cases will move the peg back on the board by a few spaces giving you more time to implement your actual plan of getting rid of it.

For me every blackout I've done has been a success in that it slowed or stopped the growth of algae, weakened most and killed off some and left me a tank with algae on its last leg I could then knock out.

My last one was for bryopsis, did a 4 day blackout, kept my fuge online to soak up the die off and after day four started spot treating what was left with h2o2. The blackout alone didn't kill the bryopsis but it vastly reduced the time I had to spot treat. It also help to get rid of alot of other algaes as well which gave my encrusting algae time to catch up.

See any ill effects after dosing h2o2? I hear one said say it's fine and one side saying "stop dumping random chemical into your tank" so I'm just trying to gather some experience