Blue eyed Tang death

ShadowMan

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Hi there,

I'm new to the hobby but have been doing my research for the past ⁶ months, checked out the BRS channel, 5 mins guides and in-depth guides and do's/don't s and finally decided to take the plunge. So 2 months ago I set up my DT, live rock+live sand and 1st month clean tank doing the cycling and once the it had fully cycled I added my first members.

My DT was doing quite well into month 2 and so we added a couple of Clowns and a Blood Red shrimp. Now at the end of month 2 and the 'ugly' phase is showing signs of wanting to start, , so I decided to add a Tang.

So I've followed all the guidance on QT, and added the Tang yesterday. He was a bit shy at first but this morning was out and feeding well, and swimming around. 2 Hours later, and he's flat on the bottom of the tank... Dead!

I guess what I'm trying to work out is why?! Was it water parameters or disease, being new to the hobby, I don't really know... there's nothing obvious - so any help/advise would be greatly appreciated.
IMG_20210507_102226.jpg
IMG_20210507_132426.jpg
 
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ShadowMan

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Sorry for your loss.

He looks like a tiny little guy. Tell us about your QT process, parameters in the QT, parameters in the DT and what size/type of clowns.
Well like I said fairly new to it all, so still learning and trying to reign in the desire to just add, add, add.

So for the QT tank, i filled it up with water from the DT, as the parameters are pretty stable... pH of 8, zero ammonia, and both nitrites and nitrates float around the 0 - 0.25 ppm.

QT (bare bottom) only runs a heater (~78F), 750Lph cannister filter with spray bar for surface agitation.

Drip acclimated to LFS bag from QT for about 45 mins, and then added to QT, no LFS water.
Tang was a bit shy at first, dosed API StressCoat+ and API Melafix. pH dropped overnight, down to 7.8 but the fish seemed quite relaxed this morning, ate really well, swimming around and then about 2 hours later, disaster. I checked parameters and all good (zero's), but the pH had dropped a bit more... down to 7.6, but before I had enough time to remedy that, it was all too late. So now wondering it was pH shock? Or something else?
 
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ShadowMan

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Any chance you overdosed the StressCoat?
I didn't know it could be overdosed?! So quite possibly, I did measure but was probably more liberal with the dosage than it accurately needed to be... I've clearly still got much to learn about the chemistry side of this hobby. Given the QT is much smaller than my DT, it's probably far less forgiving
 
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littlebeard

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Did he die in the QT tank or the DT? How long was he in QT? Did you treat him with anything? What type of QT do you do? Copper? TTM?

Do you keep a log of your qt tank? I like to note behavior and feeding habits when I QT, because quite frankly memory sucks. Note I'm no grandmaster at QT, and my skill falls somewhere between dump and pray and "Proper" QT.

Example of log(Using modified TTM):

DateDayTime NeededActual TimeMedicationFoodNotes
4/20/2021​
Day 1Fish In
9:00 AM​
Was in prazipro @ storeMysis\seaweedAte a few mysis\shreded the seaweed
4/21/2021​
Day 2
9:00 PM​
NoneMysis\seaweed\pelletsEating like a pig/ little pale


According to the API website StressCoat should have no effect on the ph. Note that PH fluctuates during the day and I have seen the biggest increase at the end of the lights on phase of the tank(I have PH probe). My guess is that those ph measurements were taken at different times? (Note that it's also important to log times when you test your water)
 

code4

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I also would like to know if he died in the QT. And if so how long was he in it. Some sellers keep their fish at a lower salinity. And that can cause a fish to die if put into a QT/DT with a higher salinity to quickly. I test for salinity in the bag using a hypodermic needle to pull a small amount out to test it. Then match my DT to that. I hope you figure out what killed it so going forward you can avoid the issue.
 
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ShadowMan

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Did he die in the QT tank or the DT? How long was he in QT? Did you treat him with anything? What type of QT do you do? Copper? TTM?

Do you keep a log of your qt tank? I like to note behavior and feeding habits when I QT, because quite frankly memory sucks. Note I'm no grandmaster at QT, and my skill falls somewhere between dump and pray and "Proper" QT.

Example of log(Using modified TTM):

DateDayTime NeededActual TimeMedicationFoodNotes
4/20/2021​
Day 1Fish In
9:00 AM​
Was in prazipro @ storeMysis\seaweedAte a few mysis\shreded the seaweed
4/21/2021​
Day 2
9:00 PM​
NoneMysis\seaweed\pelletsEating like a pig/ little pale


According to the API website StressCoat should have no effect on the ph. Note that PH fluctuates during the day and I have seen the biggest increase at the end of the lights on phase of the tank(I have PH probe). My guess is that those ph measurements were taken at different times? (Note that it's also important to log times when you test your water)
He died in the QT tank, less than 24 hours after being introduced to it. So it was a really fast deterioration.

I try to use a proper QT process, as I don't want to impact the fish I already have established in my DT and ensure that new arrivals are happy and healthy. So this was Day-1 of 21 days of QT... I'm glad I did QT process, but similarly, I'm just not sure of what caused the rapid decline and obviously don't want to repeat it.

The fish fed well at the LFS, I watched it for about an hour there before deciding to buy it and then brought it home, and drip accumulated for ~45 mins, while my QT stabilised and put it in. Fed really well this morning, and was a lot more active. I added a small amount of green seaweed strip, so that it could nibble throughout the day and I could monitor it better, but by midday it was completely stiff on the bottom of the QT
 
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ShadowMan

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I also would like to know if he died in the QT. And if so how long was he in it. Some sellers keep their fish at a lower salinity. And that can cause a fish to die if put into a QT/DT with a higher salinity to quickly. I test for salinity in the bag using a hypodermic needle to pull a small amount out to test it. Then match my DT to that. I hope you figure out what killed it so going forward you can avoid the issue.
Very valid point and something that completely escaped my mind by the time I got home. I had planned to test the LFS water in the bag to ensure a good match but unfortunately didn't
 
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ShadowMan

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Did he die in the QT tank or the DT? How long was he in QT? Did you treat him with anything? What type of QT do you do? Copper? TTM?

Do you keep a log of your qt tank? I like to note behavior and feeding habits when I QT, because quite frankly memory sucks. Note I'm no grandmaster at QT, and my skill falls somewhere between dump and pray and "Proper" QT.

Example of log(Using modified TTM):

DateDayTime NeededActual TimeMedicationFoodNotes
4/20/2021​
Day 1Fish In
9:00 AM​
Was in prazipro @ storeMysis\seaweedAte a few mysis\shreded the seaweed
4/21/2021​
Day 2
9:00 PM​
NoneMysis\seaweed\pelletsEating like a pig/ little pale


According to the API website StressCoat should have no effect on the ph. Note that PH fluctuates during the day and I have seen the biggest increase at the end of the lights on phase of the tank(I have PH probe). My guess is that those ph measurements were taken at different times? (Note that it's also important to log times when you test your water)
Sorry just to add to my last reply about meds, etc... I had planned on pretty much just observation for the first 7 days before doing any meds. Only added single dose of StressCoat and Melafix, and did usual API Saltwater testing - pH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates (tested before entry to QT @ 2pm, before feeding at 7pm, this morning @ 7am, then pH hourly from 10am, as I noticed the drop)
 
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littlebeard

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I would give the LFS a call up and ask them what salinity they keep their tanks at. <- one possibility

Also, do you use an airstone? I've had more luck with just an airstone in the qt tank. Sponge filters work great because they combine aerating the water and the nitrifying bacteria. If the tank doesn't have proper aeration fish will die. <- Another possibility.
 
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ShadowMan

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How are you testing and maintaining salinity?
Testing salinity with a refractometer, both tanks are at 1.025. Currently testing on a daily basis, sometimes morning and evenings, especially with the QT tank.

Dosing with RO/DI water when creeping up and Natural Seawater when on the low side. I was making my own saltwater to begin with, but found a local company that supplies Natural Seawater to various big names SeaLife/aquarium centres and they do domestic supply as well, which works out less than I can make it for. The pH of this is 8, with a salinity of 1.028, so I mix with some RO/DI to bring in into line with my parameters
 
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ShadowMan

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I would give the LFS a call up and ask them what salinity they keep their tanks at. <- one possibility

Also, do you use an airstone? I've had more luck with just an airstone in the qt tank. Sponge filters work great because they combine aerating the water and the nitrifying bacteria. If the tank doesn't have proper aeration fish will die. <- Another possibility.
I don't have an airstone but do use both an internal cannister filter with sponges, and a separate air pump with a Venturi clip to control the amount of air in.

But that's a good shout about finding out what the salinity is from the LFS - thanks
 
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ShadowMan

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Just want to say thanks to everyone who has replied so far, great suggestions and advise so far. Really want to stay and expand in the hobby, just gut wrenching when you lose a fish, and even more so being so new to it, I know my lack of experience has contributed heavily to this outcome.
 
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code4

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Don't beat yourself up to badly. I did not think that the lfs or petco would keep their fish at 20 gravity. My little angel died because of this. My fault.
 

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