Blue Faced Angel with what looks like a bacterial infection

[bbpros2b]

Hello I really need some professional help with figuring out what is wrong with my Blue Faced Angel? I have a blue faced Angel and a dog face puffer and Hawkfish in quarantine and the Tank came down with Ich a week after purchasing the fish. I am on day 7 treatment at full dose of cupramine and tank is at steady 82 degrees. The ich has left all the fish so far but the Angel seems to still have a few lifted white dots on her. The reason actually for this post isn’t the Ich because I seem to be winning this battle. I actually have another issue going on with my Angel that started about a day before the Ich came and I started treating with cupramine. The side of the angels scales started turning into little blisters so I also treated with Maracyn 2 for the full 6 day treatment while treating cupramine. The infection on her side actually only started to look worse. So I am now treating with Kanaplex for the full 6 day treatment. But not much has changed. I am doing daily water changes and keeping QT tank very clean and it is a lot of work to do these water changes with all these treatments. I know I need to continue the cupramine treatment all the way through but can anybody please tell me for sure what this is on my Blue Faced Angel? She’s a beautiful fish I really don’t want to lose her

this is when it first started so I treated with maracyn two for the full treatment but it only got worse.

This is after Maracyn Treatment. looks much worse.
the fish are now on day 7 of cupramine treatment and day 6 (last day) treatment of Kanaplex. I’ve noticed that the scales on the side of the Angel seem to now be peeling like the dead scales are falling off. Does anyone know what’s causing this?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yea I hope to have better luck in the future just need to be more selective in my choosing of Angelfish. Thank you vetteguy

If purchasing from an LFS:
Assure it is breathing normal, not rapid
Ask to see it eat.
best if it has been there 10-14 days or more- should be showing interest in food
See how it interacts with any other fish in tank
Look at skin and mouth for imperfections, disease, etc

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok I will do that with the prazipro and no copper treatment has been given to the neon goby or the Naso tang yet? Should I treat With copper even with no signs of disease? If so when should I dose the copper ? Thanks
-Cody

I always run fish through 30 days of coppersafe to reduce the incidence of ich and velvet (it doesn’t help with brooklynella though).
Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

What you saw out of the fish's gills weren't flukes (you need to use a microscope to see gill flukes) but it could have been mucus, or possibly some other type of worm.

I don't think that the two angels died from related causes. Getting good quality angels is key. Some are still being collected with sodium cyanide which can cause delayed death in the fish days to weeks later. That could have been the cause with the emperor (it also seems thin to me). Your blueface angel had some type of infection though.

Jay

Hey Jay I took your advice and took plenty of time to find 2 healthy angelfish who have successfully made it through QT into my Display and are now thriving.
On Another Note!!! I really need your help. 7 days ago changed some Rock work in my Display tank and I saw the twin spot wrasse go in the sand when i was pulling old rock out and I saw him go in the sand in the front of the tank where there is no rock. So several minutes later I proceeded adding the new rock back in and I haven’t saw the twin spot wrasse ever sense. Is it possible it’s trapped under a rock and can’t get out? I have 4” sandbed everywhere in the tank. I’m assuming it’s most likely dead which really sucks cause he was one of my favorite fish. So beautiful and active

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay I took your advice and took plenty of time to find 2 healthy angelfish who have successfully made it through QT into my Display and are now thriving.
On Another Note!!! I really need your help. 7 days ago changed some Rock work in my Display tank and I saw the twin spot wrasse go in the sand when i was pulling old rock out and I saw him go in the sand in the front of the tank where there is no rock. So several minutes later I proceeded adding the new rock back in and I haven’t saw the twin spot wrasse ever sense. Is it possible it’s trapped under a rock and can’t get out? I have 4” sandbed everywhere in the tank. I’m assuming it’s most likely dead which really sucks cause he was one of my favorite fish. So beautiful and active

Sorry - it does sound like the wrasse got trapped or had some other issue. When first acquired, wrasse will sometimes spend days buried, but once settled in that just isn't normal for them to hide that long. Another issue I've had is when fish jump out while I'm working on the tank, then they end up below the tank some where and just dry up.

Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

Sorry - it does sound like the wrasse got trapped or had some other issue. When first acquired, wrasse will sometimes spend days buried, but once settled in that just isn't normal for them to hide that long. Another issue I've had is when fish jump out while I'm working on the tank, then they end up below the tank some where and just dry up.

Jay

Yea you’re right Jay I actually had one try to do that with me last night heard a splash and I realized I left the lid off after feeding but got lucky nothing jumped out. I thought about looking behind the cabinet but it’s a big corner tank so kinda hard to do that. With the way the cabinet is set up. I’ll just consider it a loss for now thank you for your input as always bro!

 

[bbpros2b]

Hey Just an Update My Twinspot wrasse has successfully came out of the sand on the 10th day! I am so excited it’s still alive and looks fatter than ever. Crazy stuff these fish do, here is the twinspot swimming with all the fish today like nothing ever happened

 

[bbpros2b]

I always run fish through 30 days of coppersafe to reduce the incidence of ich and velvet (it doesn’t help with brooklynella though).
Jay

Hey Jay I really need your help with a fish that is very important to me and the kids. Our Dogface Puffer which we have had for a little shy of a year, he has alot of personality and keeps us laughing. If you can help I would really appreciate it. Two weeks ago I noticed the puffers lip was damaged very slightly but he was still eating so i left him alone to heal in the DT but after a week it looked like it may have turned into an infection like it was spreading back on his face but his lip was healed. He started thrashing some against the rocks and itching and I also noticed him pulling his fin in his gill which he has never done. Here is a picture of his face the day I pulled him out of the DT and put him in QT.

I haven’t added any fish to the DT in 6 weeks and all fish and anemone have been Quarantined for a minimum of 4 weeks or more if needed.
sorry back to the point… 6 days ago I put “Puff” in 10 gallon Qt, with airstone, HOB filter, and power head. I dosed Puff with Prazipro, Erythromycin, and Kanaplex. I have been keeping up with the dosages of the medications and water parameters and now on Day 6 his face and most of what looked like an infection seems to be lightening up but he is still thrashing like he’s trying to itch his face and still tucking his fin. I also noticed today these white spots that are imbedded in his skin i don’t think it’s Ich because they don’t look like Ich? Maybe holes healing from flukes? Please help Jay I’m kind of freaking out

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I worry about you being able to maintain good water quality with that sized fish in a 10 gallon tank.
I don’t see anything dire with the spots you have circled - maybe just bumped scales?
I wonder if flukes are the underlying issue here? If so, you would be better off moving the puffer back to the display and dosing the whole tank with prazipro?
Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

I worry about you being able to maintain good water quality with that sized fish in a 10 gallon tank.
I don’t see anything dire with the spots you have circled - maybe just bumped scales?
I wonder if flukes are the underlying issue here? If so, you would be better off moving the puffer back to the display and dosing the whole tank with prazipro?
Jay

Jay, that makes so much sense because if he has flukes the whole DT is technically infected. You are right about the water conditions as well! I have never treated prazi pro in my display tank. It is a 120 gallon with 30 gal sump, recirculating protein skimmer hooked to Co2 scrubber, GFO reactor, algae scrubber and 40 watt uv sterilizer. Should I turn all of these units off or which can I leave on??? My biggest worry is crashing my biological filter but obviously that is not as worrisome as every fish in the tank getting flukes.
what should I expect to see when treating the DT with prazi pro, possible algae bloom? Anything to watch for? I have 2 bubble tip anemone and 1 long tentacle anemone and 3 wrasses with around 15 other fish.
how do you suggest I dose my tank considering the anemones and wrasse? The directions say 5ml /20 gal my tank is around 120 gallons so would dosing 30ml into my return section of my sump once every 7 days for 21 days with 20 percent water change once a week before redosing be sufficient yet still safe??
If u suggest not treating the DT
After what I mentioned above I can also add 7 more gallons to the puffers QT tank because it’s actually a 20 gallon long but it doesn’t really hold 20 gallons more like a healthy 17 gallons which makes dosing kinda hard to measure.

Thank you Jay I hope u can kind of help walk me through this I know that was alot of questions

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So - during prazipro treatments, run your skimmer on full, but do not collect any skimmate. Add an extra aeration device or two to the main tank. Remove all chemical filtration (carbon). I would turn off the UV. I'm not sure about the GFO reactor, the CO2 scrubber would be fine, so is the algae scrubber.

Anemones sometimes close up when you first add prazi. Any problems that wrasse have is due to lack of aeration. The solvent in prazipro is a gylcol, and it acts like carbon dosing.

Disperse the prazipro around the tank and sump, not just in the sump itself.

30ml is the correct dose, IF your tank holds a net 120 gallons. If your tank is "rated" at 120, it may only hold 100 with rock displacement, but you also have to calculate in the volume of the sump.

"once every 7 days for 21 days with 20 percent water change once a week before redosing be sufficient yet still safe" - yes.

Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

Ok Jay thank you, I just put puffer back in the DT he is much happier in there anyway I turned off UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor to be safe kept everything else running and carbon is pulled out. I dosed 30 ML into DT and added airstone.
My Next Question is would it be ok to do a 20% water change 24-36 hrs after first dose and turn UV Sterilivers and GFO Reactor back on and add carbon until the 7th day when it’s time to redose and start the process over? I just want to minimize any large changes such as leaving my UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor off for the full 21 days?

 

[bbpros2b]

So - during prazipro treatments, run your skimmer on full, but do not collect any skimmate. Add an extra aeration device or two to the main tank. Remove all chemical filtration (carbon). I would turn off the UV. I'm not sure about the GFO reactor, the CO2 scrubber would be fine, so is the algae scrubber.

Anemones sometimes close up when you first add prazi. Any problems that wrasse have is due to lack of aeration. The solvent in prazipro is a gylcol, and it acts like carbon dosing.

Disperse the prazipro around the tank and sump, not just in the sump itself.

30ml is the correct dose, IF your tank holds a net 120 gallons. If your tank is "rated" at 120, it may only hold 100 with rock displacement, but you also have to calculate in the volume of the sump.

"once every 7 days for 21 days with 20 percent water change once a week before redosing be sufficient yet still safe" - yes.

Jay

Ok Jay thank you, I just put puffer back in the DT he is much happier in there anyway I turned off UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor to be safe kept everything else running and carbon is pulled out. I dosed 30 ML into DT and added airstone.
My Next Question is would it be ok to do a 20% water change 24-36 hrs after first dose and turn UV Sterilivers and GFO Reactor back on and add carbon until the 7th day when it’s time to redose and start the process over? I just want to minimize any large changes such as leaving my UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor off for the full 21 days?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok Jay thank you, I just put puffer back in the DT he is much happier in there anyway I turned off UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor to be safe kept everything else running and carbon is pulled out. I dosed 30 ML into DT and added airstone.
My Next Question is would it be ok to do a 20% water change 24-36 hrs after first dose and turn UV Sterilivers and GFO Reactor back on and add carbon until the 7th day when it’s time to redose and start the process over? I just want to minimize any large changes such as leaving my UV sterilizer and GFO Reactor off for the full 21 days?

Yes, that’s fine to do. Prazi breaks down in a few days anyway.
Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

Yes, that’s fine to do. Prazi breaks down in a few days anyway.
Jay

Ok thank you Jay I really appreciate your help you probably just saved me from a future fluke breakout which would have been devastating

 

[bbpros2b]

Yes, that’s fine to do. Prazi breaks down in a few days anyway.
Jay

Hey Jay so here is an update today is day 2 as yesterday I put the puff in the DT and treated DT with Prazi pro. Unfortunately tonight I noticed a cotton like growth on both of the puffs fins? So now I’m freaking out as I just treated him in the QT with Kanaplex and Erythromycin and today he has this fungal infection, should I pull him back out and treat him with a fungal medication like primafix or should I leave him in DT and Keep feeding him Kanaplex in his food?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay so here is an update today is day 2 as yesterday I put the puff in the DT and treated DT with Prazi pro. Unfortunately tonight I noticed a cotton like growth on both of the puffs fins? So now I’m freaking out as I just treated him in the QT with Kanaplex and Erythromycin and today he has this fungal infection, should I pull him back out and treat him with a fungal medication like primafix or should I leave him in DT and Keep feeding him Kanaplex in his food?

O.K., first - marine fish almost never get external fungal infections, I've seen two cases in 50 years. You can rule out fungus. Pimafix is a herbal tonic, not a true medication, I would not use it.

NEVER feed Kanaplex in food. Did you get that advice here? If so, I need to know who, so I can correct them! Here is the issue: the oral dose for Kanamycin is 50mg per kg of fish weight daily. Lower than that and it won't work. Higher than that causes kidney and liver damage. Then, about 2/3 of Kanaplex is inactive ingredients, so you need to factor that in as well. In the sticky section at the top of the fish disease forum are two articles on dosing medicated food properly.

Can you post a picture of the puffer as it is now?

Jay

 

[bbpros2b]

O.K., first - marine fish almost never get external fungal infections, I've seen two cases in 50 years. You can rule out fungus. Pimafix is a herbal tonic, not a true medication, I would not use it.

NEVER feed Kanaplex in food. Did you get that advice here? If so, I need to know who, so I can correct them! Here is the issue: the oral dose for Kanamycin is 50mg per kg of fish weight daily. Lower than that and it won't work. Higher than that causes kidney and liver damage. Then, about 2/3 of Kanaplex is inactive ingredients, so you need to factor that in as well. In the sticky section at the top of the fish disease forum are two articles on dosing medicated food properly.

Can you post a picture of the puffer as it is now?

Jay

Ok no Pimafix. No more Kanaplex in food I just read that on the directions, but makes complete sense I will not do that anymore. So this morning I’m having major issues with the Puff. When only the blue light came on in the display first thing this morning it really made the problem stand out he now has the same cotton like substance on one eye and still on his fins. He was squinting his eyes and trying to swim right in front of the wave maker. He keeps squinting like something is attacking his eyes. As soon as I saw all this when the morning light came on I took him out put him back in the 20 gallon sick tank that actually has 17 gallons in it instead of 10 this time. But I’ll be honest the pictures below do no just to what is going on, under the blue lights that are like black lights really show everything but as u know I can’t take pictures under that light so these are under white light and u can’t see how fuzzy this stuff is in the pics but take my word these are risen fuzzy cotton like patches and I am very worried as I’ve never saw this before and I can’t get a picture good enough for you to see the importance. Do you know what meds I can use? He’s already been treated with erythromycin and Kanaplex for 7 days and prazi pro he’s received 3 treatments as he got two treatments in the Qt before and one in display tank. So I think Kana, Eryth, and prazi pro won’t work for this but what do u think….. man this sucks for the puff because everything else in the tank is thriving. Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 15, p04 .02, alk DKH 11.2, Ph 8.1, salinity 1.025, temp 82

water in the 20 gallon is the same parameters as it was cleaned out and refilled with water from display tank.

In this picture I tried to get a pic of the fuzzy on his eye but it’s very hard under white light. And in blue light it’s very easy to see but not possible in a picture

I tried my best in this picture to show it’s lifted but u can’t see how fuzzy it is in the pictures unfor

here he is squinting and he Keeps doing it in both eyes

 

[bbpros2b]

Here is another picture of his eye and it’s like a fuzzy dot and he also what looks like algae growing on his tail it’s literally green spot and as he swims I can see the particles swaying on him

 

[bbpros2b]

I’ve been researching a lot, do you think API Fungus cure would be sufficient or possibly Maracyn 2?