Blue Hippo Tang Flukes or?

CakeOrCrayons · Apr 16, 2021

I have a couple blue hippo tangs and cleaner wrasse currently in QT with 60mg/gal CP. I know these fish are known not to tolerate CP well, but I have had success when titrating the dose and ensuring they are eating before beginning treatment.

The larger blue hippo tang showed signs of ich, but after the CP treatment it appears all white spots are gone. Does ich leave scars? Do they heal?

I know CP kills ich, but my main concern is flukes. He is swimming strange (but still ate tonight) in a sort of relaxed way. He presents himself for the cleaner wrasse, and the cleaner occasionally picks at him. I also think he is breathing rather quickly? There are very small grey spots on his belly that are fuzzy, and a couple translucent spots (hard to see) on his black line.

Is this indeed flukes? And if so, what is the recommended treatment?

Thanks in advance

35ppt salinity
20 gallon QT
Bio seeded sponge
Seachem tidal 35 HOB
Ammonia < .02 on Seachem alert

Jay Hemdal · Apr 16, 2021

Both blue tangs are breathing way too fast. Do you have a secondary way to measure ammonia? I've seen issues w3ith the Seachem badges reading zero when there was ammonia in the water. Have you considered giving them a 5 minute FW dip, both as diagnostic for flukes and to buy some time?

How long has the tank been treated with chloroquine? Chloroquine has a bad habit of causing ammonia spikes in aquariums, but the reason(s) why aren't clear. Here is a link to any article I wrote a while ago:

Aquarium Fish: Chloroquine: A “New” Drug for Treating Fish Diseases

While not a panacea or miracle drug, chloroquine is experiencing resurgence in popularity for use in fish-only aquariums and quarantine systems to treat a variety of problems ranging from Cryptocaryon to Aiptasia anemone infestations.

reefs.com

Jay

CakeOrCrayons · Apr 17, 2021

Jay, thanks for your response. I made it to the LFS yesterday right before close and picked up some api ammonia test strips. Upon testing the QT tank, strips showed a slight tint of green so I did a 50% water change (with measured CP), removed the bio media, replaced with a new clean filter sponge, and dosed prime. I am not sure what effect CP had on the bio cycle, so I am going to dose prime/water changes for the remainder of the CP treatment. Lots of good information in your article!

The blue hippo tang is still breathing quickly, but I got a couple more pictures of the spots. They seem foggy white, raised, and bumpy. Looking closely, I observed slight white cloudiness on the edge of fins too. I have been treating the QT tank with CP since Tuesday.

I considered a FW dip but wasnt sure- My usual QT process is to dose API general cure towards the end of a two week CP treatment. If these are flukes, I am considering dosing API general cure sooner.

Pics were taken right after AM feeding. Any recommendations are most welcome.

Jay Hemdal · Apr 17, 2021

I can’t tell you what the spots are, but by their generally lower density, even if they are present in the fish’s gills, they wouldn’t be in enough numbers to cause the rapid breathing, thus my questions about water quality and flukes. I’m banking on the CP to control any protozoan causes for the rapid breathing.
Was replacing the filter sponge a good thing to do? Any beneficial bacteria that was on it is now lost, so you’ve essentially started the cycle over from scratch, unless I’m misunderstanding something. In addition to prime, some “bacteria in a bottle” can be a good way to jump start the nitrogen cycle in an emergency.
Hepatus tangs act really flaky during FW dips, and if their gills are too compromised, the dip could be fatal (but if they are that close to expiring, the dip just speeds it up). Maybe dip the stronger one first and see if it brings any relief? You may not see an improvement until tomorrow though....
Jay

CakeOrCrayons · Apr 17, 2021

I’ve had success in the past running CP without an established biofilter and instead performing water changes & dosing prime- this is what I intend to do moving forward. I’ve read about some batería in a bottle products decreasing CP efficacy, so I think I’m going to stay away from maintaining a biocycle while QTing with CP. Would you recommend something different? I have a total of 4 QT tanks (two unused right now) so I can separate or treat differently if needed.

Do you recommend a FW dip over API general cure with CP? Do you think the blue hippo tang is symptomatic of flukes, or something else? I’m still learning and open to suggestions. Thanks!

Jay Hemdal · Apr 18, 2021

CakeOrCrayons said:
I’ve had success in the past running CP without an established biofilter and instead performing water changes & dosing prime- this is what I intend to do moving forward. I’ve read about some batería in a bottle products decreasing CP efficacy, so I think I’m going to stay away from maintaining a biocycle while QTing with CP. Would you recommend something different? I have a total of 4 QT tanks (two unused right now) so I can separate or treat differently if needed.

Do you recommend a FW dip over API general cure with CP? Do you think the blue hippo tang is symptomatic of flukes, or something else? I’m still learning and open to suggestions. Thanks!

I've always relied on biofilters to reduced ammonia during CP treatments. Prime is a pretty active reducing agent, and I worry that its use could have unintended consequences. Seachem doesn't reveal what's in it, so we are left guessing.

I've never dosed Metronidazole/Praziquantel at the same time as chloroquine, so I can't comment on that.

FW dips aren't really a treatment per-se, they are used as a diagnostic tool (looking in the dip water afterwards for dead flukes) and to buy you some time while a full treatment is developed.

Jay