Blue tang from Petco with ich and Herbtana product killed invertebrates

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ZKAqua23

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Mine was a 30 gallon too. Mine was in for the same amount of time as yours too before the same thing happened. This is exactly what I went thru. The advise here from the pros saved my tank and yes it cost me a tang but I saved the rest of my tank and learned so much from it. A tang will not make it in your tank and will decease the rest of it if you don’t get it out quickly. All your problems will go away once you do.
Nemi will work but Dori won’t work unless she has room to “just keep swimming, just keep swimming”.
I really appr the advice here, but it was just misleading direction that got us here and now I'm not sure what to do. We don't have room for a 6 foot tank, and Petco won't refund but I'm not sure they'd even take her back with ich. So I have to keep pursuing hyposalinty treatments just to maintain her bare minimum quality of life and risk infecting my clown?
 
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Stv

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You need to pick between ick management or ick Removal. Management would be to remove tang right away and treat him in a QT tank and leave your DT alone and keep an eye on your clown. Feed a really healthy diet to the clown and chances are, your DT will be fine as long as the tang isn’t put back in. I have no experience with Herbtana so I can’t offer advise on this separate issue.
 

jt8791

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Petco employees are hit or miss, some will give you accurate information and others will tell you anything to get you to spend money. Their job is to sell their livestock before it dies in the display tank. I had a Petco employee try to convince to put a Melanurus Wrasse in my 30 gallon with blood orange clowns, she had it a week so no wonder she was desperate to sell it. Always do your own research before making a livestock purchase.
 

Stv

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Unfortunately I think you will loose the entire tank trying to chase fighting the tang to make it and treating your DT to do it. It’s up to you if you want to take that risk. I don’t think anyone on here will tell you a tang in a small tank is going to live and not cause mass damage if you don’t relocate quickly.
 

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I got lucky and a buddy took my tang and QT it at his place and he has a new huge home that he loves but setting up a QT tank is a lot of work and will cost you far more than the tang is worth. Lots of decisions to make but you at least know what’s causing the issue now and have some Info to address it how you see fit.
 
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jt8791

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At the end of the day the cost of one tang is minor compared to losing all the livestock in your whole tank. I spent a good chunk of money trying for a peaceful community tank, it just wasn’t working for the fish, so I rehomed them all and went a different direction, pair of blood orange clowns and a six line wrasse.

Money is just money, the well being of the fish and other livestock in the tank is what’s most important. Take it as a lesson learned, fix the problem you created and move on, you have to create a balanced ecosystem and a tang in a 30 gallon is way out of balance.
 

Elaine123

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The only effective way to get rid of ich entirely is to remove the fish and let the tank sit fallow for 76 days (I think that is right number). The standard treatment is copper. Here are suggested references:



Based upon my experience bringing home diseased fish (unknown to me), I now know that every local fish store has disease of one kind or another in their tanks. Buyer beware!
 
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You need to pick between ick management or ick Removal. Management would be to remove tang right away and treat him in a QT tank and leave your DT alone and keep an eye on your clown. Feed a really healthy diet to the clown and chances are, your DT will be fine as long as the tang isn’t put back in. I have no experience with Herbtana so I can’t offer advise on this separate

At the end of the day the cost of one tang is minor compared to losing all the livestock in your whole tank. I spent a good chunk of money trying for a peaceful community tank, it just wasn’t working for the fish, so I rehomed them all and went a different direction, pair of blood orange clowns and a six line wrasse.

Money is just money, the well being of the fish and other livestock in the tank is what’s most important. Take it as a lesson learned, fix the problem you created and move on, you have to create a balanced ecosystem and a tang in a 30 gallon is way out of balance.
I will say this isn't necessarily a problem I created as I cessed thru all the misinformation and made as reasonable decisions as I could given said set of information. But the quality of life issue is now there and figuring out what to do with it. The tang too is also a juvenile about 2 inches which every local store has said they are fine starting out in 30 gallon tanks
At the end of the day the cost of one tang is minor compared to losing all the livestock in your whole tank. I spent a good chunk of money trying for a peaceful community tank, it just wasn’t working for the fish, so I rehomed them all and went a different direction, pair of blood orange clowns and a six line wrasse.

Money is just money, the well being of the fish and other livestock in the tank is what’s most important. Take it as a lesson learned, fix the problem you created and move on, you have to create a balanced ecosystem and a tang in a 30 gallon is way out of bala
 

Fish Think Pink

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there is a lot of good advice and recommendations already here in this thread

wow a lot of Petco bashing in this thread, but many local fish stores have same ...<fill in blank> ... they were probably trying their best, based on what they knew and could recall in the moment, but in this hobby impulse purchase and doing anything quick usually leads to problems.

I love this website because people from around the world are sharing advice, aren't trying to sell anything when advising, and usually best path forward can be figured out, often with scientific evidence to back up recommendation. I feel it is always up to us to dig into research.

Wishing you the best, wishing your tank the best and hoping your tang (and any strong swimming fish) get the space they need - don't forget circular tanks - enables fish to go long distance in circle without stopping!

EDIT - my QT is just a 5 gallon PetSmart package tank that if I'm not using stores under my desk; can turn it to hospital tank and fish can go thru observations/treatments in it before going to main tank

Disclaimer - marine ich did get into my main tank from past too short butterfly fish quarantine, does show up every blue moon if I introduce new fish (causes stress to all) but clears up on own because existing fish are well fed & healthy
 
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I called all LFS in the area and pitched the info I got from one against the others. The concensus seems to be that the 2" tang is ok starting off in a 30 gallon, that hyposalinty at 1.009 but not below 1.008 or above 1.010, temperature should be bumped to exactly 80 degrees and they also recommended a cleaner wrasse. They also advised that tangs are just extremely ich prone and that removing the tang to a QT would stress it to the point of almost killing it and copper would set into the LR and kill any invertebrates we put in there in the future. Continuing research , doing water changes to gradually lower salinity and playing the waiting game now.
 
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Okay so you're saying I would need a 100+ gallon tank for one tang? None of the other stores I've been to have had that, along with like 7 other fish in the tank with them. My problem is I've used this Herbtana product that nuked my invertebrates and now I'm worried about whether its seemed into my live rock and toxified the tank
An LFS is not a permanent home for these fish, they are kept in smaller, often empty (decor wise) tanks so they are easy to catch and manage, but for a permanent home, tangs (depending on the species) need a minimum of 75-200 gallons. The blue tang (I’m assuming it’s a hippo tang and not a powder blue), needs a minimum of around 150-200 gallons (they can reach 12”, though 8-10” is more common in captivity). You can keep a juvenile in a smaller tank for a while, but they grow fast and it’s unethical to buy a juvenile if you don’t have adequate space for it to grow or a real, solid, concrete plan with a real timeline to upgrade to a larger tank.

You’re right that there is a lot of misinformation in this hobby, and for a lot of things there is no one right answer (there are just too many variables for there to be clear black and white answers), but if you ask a question here you’ll easily be able to get a consensus on what a good course of action is. Misinformation posted here is public and generally gets called out. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard anyone here recommend Herbtana, as it’s not a real treatment for fish diseases, it’s the equivalent of a human taking herbal supplements to treat skin cancer. Who recommended the Herbtana to you?
 

yassir999

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It's correct that the tang will do ok in your smaller tank for the first 6 months assuming you got him as a juvenile but after that aggression and stress will take hold as they become big fast. Trust me on this as I have experienced it my self!!

If you decide to keep the tang and have plans in upgrading your tank ina year or so then go for it. Treat your tang in a cheap 10 gallon Petco tank with a hang on back filter and controlled copper dosing.

If it was me at this point I have no intentions on upgrading my system in 6 to a year then I would return that tang back to Petco today and take care of the rest of my existing live stock til I plan on upgrading down the line.

I know how much you wanted this to work as I did before. I currently have a 4 foot tank with a juvi blue tang that's doing great but I am definitely upgrading my tank to 6 feet in less than a year as I will be adding more tangs and 6 feet is appropriate for there well being.

Sorry you are going thru the trouble and hope it all get better
 

jt8791

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Petco isn’t terrible, they have a few good knowledgeable employees but a lot of untrained inexperienced employees. Some stores do better than others, it all comes down to the employees. I’ve seen some foolish inexperienced fish experts at Petco but not blue tang in a 30 gallon level foolishness.

Who knows how long it will be okay in that small of a tank but I wish you luck. Maybe get it healthy and ick free and try to sell it to another reefer and make some money back. Tang experts might be able to chime in on how long it would be safe to keep that fish in there.

Sure the last thing you want is to stunt the fishes growth. I couldn’t see pulling a wild fish from the ocean and it living a good life only being able to swim in a circle.
 

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Hi all,
I got a blue tang from Petco before I did research on their "fish problem", it ended up with ich. Since I have shrimp and snails, I was recommended Herbtana for an alternative to copper. Two doses in (following all instructions) and my shrimp and snails are dead. I am extremely frustrated because I have read that for some people this product randomly doesn't work or has adverse effects for 5% or so of users. I have one clown and the tang left, should I do a large water change to get this Herbvana garbage out or will they be alright? I have switched to looking at copper related treatments but I don't want to medicate the tank to the point it destroys it. Any help would be great, thanks.

ZK
It's likely the residual essential oils in herbtana. Some are very very toxic to inverts. In the case of fish it is not eradicating the ich. What herbal stuff is said to do though is to help the fish immune system to naturally fight infection.
 

Tamberav

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I've seen lots of articles to the contrary, just like every other question we've had with this hobby so far. What you're describing is what it in fact looks like after we got her from Petco which had her in maybe a 50 gallon tank with 11 other fish in there. We've been very attentive to her dietary needs as well as the clown and shrimps, we completed water changes and checked levels and temps but we still got this problem and this Herbtana product seems to have stacked another one on us. Especially since calling the local aquarium and they told me "that's weird".

Feeding won’t keep ich away alone.
I am not sure what you mean by contrary. I am saying that many LFS have ich in their system not just Petco and break outs happen in our tanks. Often brought out by stress and the fact that the fish are no longer in low dose copper.

They are just a pet store so 50g sounds generous.

If your information came from Facebook… well that place is definitely a disaster for information.

There are many stickies here that link back to scientific studies and ich and not just opinions.
 
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Tamberav

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The tang we got was in the Tank with all the other fish for probably a good month and a half to two months as we had seen her there when we first got started. We have a 30 gallon with one clown in it, which I did google "best 30 gallon saltwater fish" and tangs are on the list so we thought it was fine. The petco rep also asked about the size and said it wouldn't be a problem? Im noticing it's hard to nail down concrete answers as every source seems to have conflicting information. Same deal with this Herbtana stuff
Google is a search engine for websites. I can make a website right now saying a Tang needs 5 gallons or 500 gallons. It is not a perfect resource. It relies on correct knowledge of others.

Let’s use critic thinking. Blue Tangs grow large. Maybe a foot in the wild, not so large in captivity but still a good size. They also produce a lot of waste from their size and dietary needs. In the wild they can travel great distances and as Dory said… “I am built for speed!”

Should a large messy fish that is active and fast traveling be housed in a 30g?

Instead of google you can buy books written by experts in the field if you like. I really like The Consciousness Marine Aquarist by Bob Fenner

Also websites like Live Aquaria or Blue Zoo are a little more accurate in depicting tank size then random websites though I would always take everything with a grain of salt.

FYI I would not consider tangs beginner friendly. Many new people to the hobby seem to have issues with disease and Tangs.

If you want to grow a small Tang. I would still recommend something like a 75g. I have been in the hobby over 10 years and got my first Tang just last year when I got an 80g. I had nanos before so never felt they were appropriate but there are starkii damsels and Pygmy angels and such that are beautiful blue fish for medium sized tanks instead of tangs. Springer damsels are another favorite of mine.
 
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ariellemermaid

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The only effective way to get rid of ich entirely is to remove the fish and let the tank sit fallow for 76 days (I think that is right number). The standard treatment is copper. Here are suggested references:



Based upon my experience bringing home diseased fish (unknown to me), I now know that every local fish store has disease of one kind or another in their tanks. Buyer beware!
Good news! I just learned the other day Humblefish now endorses 6 weeks fallow if the tank temp is kept above 80.6.

It seems to me that the OP has a lot of options here as others have said. If I’ve read correctly, corals and inverts are all dead. So without a QT hypo is an option but difficult to do perfectly without any swings (ATO mandatory at the very least). Check the salinity 1-2x per day with a freshly calibrated instrument and reset the clock if it rises above target. Just for the record, make sure you come out of hypo slowly when you’re done. Copper in QT tank is better, but since your DT is now essentially a FOWLR QT, hypo is a reasonable option here.

QT and treating with copper for ich also kills velvet which can rapidly kill everything in a tank. Continuing to add fish without QT (bare minimum for observation period) you’re rolling the dice. Let this first brush with ich be a lesson; down the road you’re going to have the same problem again, and unless you want to kill all your corals and inverts again, hypo won’t be an option. QT is the only good answer, if not now, then down the road as a hospital tank; you’re going to need another tank eventually. If you do go the QT route pay attention to cycling options, monitor ammonia religiously, and have Prime on hand for emergencies. Even using well cycled media and sponges I’ve still had ammonia spikes in the first week or 2 of adding fish to a clean QT until the bio filter catches up.

Finally as others have said, 30g is way too small for that fish in particular beyond a few months. But you’re also stuck with it for now; it would be irresponsible I think to just give it back to the store and introduce an active ich infection to their tanks, and, it will likely die slowly and painfully because there’s no way they’re going to give it proper treatment at petco. So I argue the most humane thing to do is give it proper treatment, clear your tank of ich, and then once it’s healthy again try to sell it, trade it, or give it away (LFS vs. Craigslist). All assuming you have no intention to do a massive tank upgrade in the near future. On the plus side, you’ll be able to sell it as “fully quarantined and ich free” assuming you don’t add ANYTHING else to the tank before he’s gone.
 
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sunken3

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Hi all,
I got a blue tang from Petco before I did research on their "fish problem", it ended up with ich. Since I have shrimp and snails, I was recommended Herbtana for an alternative to copper. Two doses in (following all instructions) and my shrimp and snails are dead. I am extremely frustrated because I have read that for some people this product randomly doesn't work or has adverse effects for 5% or so of users. I have one clown and the tang left, should I do a large water change to get this Herbvana garbage out or will they be alright? I have switched to looking at copper related treatments but I don't want to medicate the tank to the point it destroys it. Any help would be great, thanks.

ZK
Just my 2 cents as you seem to have all good advice here. . .

I have been doing this for decades (fish/reef aquariums) and have never came across an herbal remedy that has worked (not saying it's not possible, but i have never had no positive outcome). For ICH, copper and a QT tank (period). I personally also combine this with the tank transfer method only because I find it easier to setup up two tanks than mess with QT partial water changes. Pecto for fish is fine, just know that their staff typically aren't dedicated reefers... it will be hit or miss.. ICH is everywhere, its not a Petco thing. Be prepared to QT all your fish before they go into your main display tank. And FYI - most things that kill fish disease.. kill everything else in your tank (which is the reason for a QT tank).

I also agree with the tank sizing. I have had many size tanks and fish over the years. I have 2 blue tangs at the moment in a 250 gallon tank (with other fish). As babies they are tiny and can be in almost any size tank... they grow fairly quickly and need a tank sized appropriately. They can grow several inches a year up to their max.

Fish stores keep their fish in small tanks temporarily... they are not permanent homes... Also most stores will sell you whatever you ask for, they are not in the business to lose business so their advice may be a little "loose".
 

sunken3

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I called all LFS in the area and pitched the info I got from one against the others. The concensus seems to be that the 2" tang is ok starting off in a 30 gallon, that hyposalinty at 1.009 but not below 1.008 or above 1.010, temperature should be bumped to exactly 80 degrees and they also recommended a cleaner wrasse. They also advised that tangs are just extremely ich prone and that removing the tang to a QT would stress it to the point of almost killing it and copper would set into the LR and kill any invertebrates we put in there in the future. Continuing research , doing water changes to gradually lower salinity and playing the waiting game now.
Do you have a pic of the tang? not to bash LFS's but I would likely trust the collective here over any LFS. LFS's are in the business to make money and more importantly most don't keep fish like we do. They buy them in bulk, sell them quickly, try to keep them alive to sell, and unlikely grow attached (emotianlly). It is just business (maybe one grown out of love for the hobby, but still a business). Most the folks on this website are keeping their own tanks.. know their fish and spend to keep them thriving. We have tried and failed and learned. I am sure you will occasionally get some bad advice here (or uniquely different in some cases), but the general advice will be second to none.

take that for what it is worth.
 
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