Blue Tang & Royal Gramma in bad shape!

[um_fan5]

Hola todos!

So over the weekend wife and I went fish shopping!
Came home with-
Niger Trigger, Sailfin Tang, Royal Gramma, Blue Tang, Yellow Tang
All the tangs are small with the understanding (at least the Mrs. knowns) we are going A: Rehome the tangs when then out grow the tank or B: bigger tank.

The Royal Gramma was a little beat up and the Mrs didn't want to leave "Gurgle" there...so we took the plunge!
I saw all of them nibble on food with the exception of the blue tang...and the Royal Gramma with just laying on it side!
Figured it was just stress!
QT was pre dosed with copper power @ 1.0
Did a Formalin dip...except the Royal Gramma!
No signs of stress during the dip!

This morning I found the blue tang stuck on the intake for the HOB!!
No idea how long it was stuck there for!
Turned off the HOB and she swam and nudged it self between the tank a PVC pipe! This Blue Tang is only about 1" long!

Left to work and figured I was going to find her dead!
NOPE! But she was in pretty bad shape!

Remembered I had small 5G tank...Grabbed that and dosed kanaplex!
Pulled the blue tang and the Royal Gramma
I did place a an egg crate as a divider since I did see the Royal Gramma go after the blue tang while in QT!

Anything else I could do???

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 ?? TY!! Best wishes

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My first concern is with water quality, can you post temperature, salinity, and ammonia? Other parameters if you know them.

Jay

 

[um_fan5]

My first concern is with water quality, can you post temperature, salinity, and ammonia? Other parameters if you know them.

Jay

Temp 78-79
1.023 SG
Ammonia 0.0 (as of this evening)
Both tanks!

the small hospital tank where the royal gramma and blue tang are, does not have copper....just kanaplex!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Was on a work zoom meeting.
What is PH
Nitrate


Are you using RO water or tap from faucet?
What test kits are you using

There appears to be trophants representing ick or Cryptocaryon irritans which is a species of ciliates that parasitizes many marine fish, causing marine white spot disease or marine ich and is one of the most common causes of disease in marine and reef life.

 

[um_fan5]

Was on a work zoom meeting.
What is PH
Nitrate


Are you using RO water or tap from faucet?
What test kits are you using

There appears to be trophants representing ick or Cryptocaryon irritans which is a species of ciliates that parasitizes many marine fish, causing marine white spot disease or marine ich and is one of the most common causes of disease in marine and reef life.

RO/DI (7 stage), PH 7.8 will advise on Nitrate tomorrow!

Please note....Royal Gramma was purchase in that shape. Wife did not want to leave him at the LFS.
Blue tang was stuck on the overflow in the morning when I woke up!

Will be picking up some Methylene Blue tomorrow at the LFS!

 

[Rubberfrog]

This is a good example of why we don't purchase fish that seem in distress. It's good you separated the fish into two tanks, that's a lot of fish in a small qt.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Temp 78-79
1.023 SG
Ammonia 0.0 (as of this evening)
Both tanks!

the small hospital tank where the royal gramma and blue tang are, does not have copper....just kanaplex!

I think you should get a copper treatment started right away. Methylene blue has little to no application in this case.
Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal

This morning both are still alive but did notice a few things:
Blue Hippo: seems it has a cut on the body from being stuck on the filter! Lays on one side only and hasn’t eating since Sunday!
Royal Gramma: Is upside down and hasn’t moved from the same spot! Dorsal and tail fin are pretty messed up!

Any issues in using copper power while they are in that shape! Should I lower the SG? Would that help?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ah, when a fish is upside down and stays that way, it typically is too far gone for any treatment. The blue tang is an unknown because there is no way to assess how serious it was injured. In most cases I’ve seen, fish that get impinged on a pump had some other predisposing weakness.
Keep the tank dim and lowering the specific gravity to 1.020 over a few hours would be something to try, but I am not optimistic....
Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Ah, when a fish is upside down and stays that way, it typically is too far gone for any treatment. The blue tang is an unknown because there is no way to assess how serious it was injured. In most cases I’ve seen, fish that get impinged on a pump had some other predisposing weakness.
Keep the tank dim and lowering the specific gravity to 1.020 over a few hours would be something to try, but I am not optimistic....
Jay

Will try that...anything else I could try?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, backtracking here - yes, you should dose them with Copper Power.

Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal
Not sure if its a good sign or just prolonging the inevitable but both are still alive.
The royal gramma swan into the PVC pipe ...still upside down at times!
The tang swan around just a bit....but mostly just laying on it side!

I haven't seen them eat but hopefully they pull thru!
Trying to keep them clam and the fam from hovering over them!

Started lowering the SG...it's at 1.023 currently!

 

[um_fan5]

Update!

So but are still here! They are still a little timid but eating!
Blue hippo is becoming a little more active as everyday passes.
The Royal gramma that spent the first few days "upside" down will swim and take a huge bit as food floats by!
Still spends most of his days behind the PVC!

Right now, they are on day 6 of 2.5 copper power and all are fatting up!
Niger Tigger was returned to the LFS...I didn't want to run the risk in the DT!
It sad cause it was a nice color fish!

Will do 14 days of copper power @ 2.5 pull them out, clean, sterilize and air dry the tank!
Then dose GC.
Hopefully I'm not counting my "chickens" or fishes in this case too soon!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Make sure you have an air stone in there when dosing with GC or prazipro.
Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal
Have a HOB and a small power head pointed up!

 

[um_fan5]

So quick questions / recommendation?

On 2/10 will be day 14 of 2.5 copper power!
All are doing super fine!!
Eating a mix of pellets, LRS, Nori, live brine and chaeto/GHA from the DT.
Yellow, Blue, Sailfin Tang and Royal Gramma!

My plans were to pull them out of copper, sterilize the tank while keeping the fishes in a
storage bin while the tank air dried. (Only have 1 "QT" tank)

My concern is more with ammonia and stressing the fishes out while in the bin!
Have some sponges in the sump for about 3 weeks now!
Do have air stones and a small pump.
Figured they'll spend couple of days in that bin while I get the tank back up running using water from DT and the sponges!

Soooooo.......
Since I see no signs of copper irritating the tangs, could I push it to 30 days and start dosing GC in the water column?
My QT set up:

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, I'm lost. Why do you want to sterilize the QT? Why not just remove the copper through water changes? Sterilizing the QT and then putting these fish back into it serves no benefit, (since the fish still have whatever the tank had) and as you point out, creates a whole suite of issues with ammonia, etc.

Jay

 

[um_fan5]

Gracias @Jay Hemdal, That's my concern moving them around!

To use a chiche here "more than one way to skin a cat" with QT methods.
Read where tangs could be sensitive to copper so a 14 day treatment and later transfer to a "new" sterile tank.
Others went full 30 days!

Your recommendation/suggestion-
Should I do 30 days copper along with GC as long as they are fine
-- or --
14 days and start removing the copper @ day 15 later GC when copper is near 0
(Knowing it's not necessary to have copper @ 0 while dosing GC.)


Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I prefer to run copper for 30 days and THEN dose with prazi, but I understand many people choose 14 days. I don’t like to mix copper and GC b/c of the overlap with the metro, and it just complicates things.
Jay