Blue throat trigger dying

[Lizfrank1234]

Hello,we bought a male blue throat trigger two weeks ago. He was looking good,eating well straight away. I fed him frozen food medicated with fenbendazole and focus in case of internal problems and started ramping up the copper power to 2.0 over the space of about 8 days. Pretty much as soon as i got it to therapeutic level,i noticed a cloudy mark on one of his fins and then a few more. I thought they were flukes,so dosed prazipro and increased airation. He seemed to go downhill over the next two days to the point where he looks like he has no balance and cant swim properly or hold himself upright. I gave him a freshwater bath last night for 5mins followed by a 90min ruby reef rally bath. We couldnt see any flukes in the bucket after the dip so really dont know what the marks are. He hasnt improved and today,his stomach looks a bit swollen to me. Not sure hes going to make it and dont really know what else to try. Ive put some epsom salts in incase hes constipated? He is in a QT tank and is alone,any ideas anyone?

 

[AiKkz]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily

 

[4FordFamily]

Loss of color can indicate velvet or parasites damaging the gills (the worst of which being velvet). Any spots/dusting on the fish? Heavy breathing?

Have you treated with anything else?

 

[Lizfrank1234]

Hello @4FordFamily, yes,he was fed bendazole and focus in his food for 10 days,hes in copper power now at 2.03,prazipro because i suspected flukes and hes had a freshwater bath and a ruby reef rally bath,he cant swim properly and i am supporting him in a net,its not looking good

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Hello @4FordFamily, yes,he was fed bendazole and focus in his food for 10 days,hes in copper power now at 2.03,prazipro because i suspected flukes and hes had a freshwater bath and a ruby reef rally bath,he cant swim properly and i am supporting him in a net,its not looking good

Is your water cloudy at all? Prazi with copper can cause terrible bacterial blooms that will deplete the water of 02.

 

[Lizfrank1234]

Hello @Frtdrmrose7,no the waters fine and i have an airstone running and a powerhead pointed at the surface for airation. He just cant hold himself upright or anything,its horrible to watch hence supporting him in a net

 

[4FordFamily]

Do you have an ammonia alert badge?

Losing color can also be bacterial, as mentioned cloudy water bacteria or infections on the fish (often internal as well) can be a cause.

 

[LAReefer4Life]

Could it be the combination of the two medications causing the issue? Prazi and Copper aren't best used together even with the addition power head, ayirstone. Usually it is advised to use GC in the scenario you need to combine with copper to treat flukes.

 

[Lizfrank1234]

Hello @4FordFamily ,yes i have an ammonia badge on the tank and i have double checked with a salifert test kit. @pathot984 he was declining before i dosed the prazipro,thats why i done it,i wouldnt normally do copper and prazipro at the same time,he looks bloated and cant swim,not good

 

[4FordFamily]

Hello @4FordFamily ,yes i have an ammonia badge on the tank and i have double checked with a salifert test kit. @pathot984 he was declining before i dosed the prazipro,thats why i done it,i wouldnt normally do copper and prazipro at the same time,he looks bloated and cant swim,not good

Is the fish overly buoyant (floating, seemingly unable to swim down from the surface)?

Or laying at the bottom of the tank?

 

[Lizfrank1234]

Hes buoyant but not enough to float to the surface,hes being moved easily by the current and is head down most of the time,i am still supporting him in a net at the moment thanks @4FordFamily

 

[4FordFamily]

Hes buoyant but not enough to float to the surface,hes being moved easily by the current and is head down most of the time,i am still supporting him in a net at the moment thanks @4FordFamily

Unfortunately I think he’s probably just done fighting.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Unfortunately he has bacterial and possible bladder issues. No insults intended but unless the fish had pre-existing conditions, there was no reason to medicate it and worse was mixing antibiotics with a chelated form of copper- fish was doomed and internal organs likely damaged, which will next affect breathing and sight and doom.
Theres a slight and I say slight chance carbon could have helped a couple days ago. We all will have various experiences and lessons in this hobby and count this as one .
How do you think I learned a few things?
Right now for the sake of the other fish, focus on water quality and do a hefty water change and add Good carbon or continue chemipure. Test every few days to assure tank is in the right direction.
Bloom is possible high ammonia.
Best of luck And this is Not goodbye- feel free to continue questions..

 

[Lizfrank1234]

Hello @vetteguy53081, i along with most people on this site,prophylactically treat all my fish before they go into my display.I used copper power as i always do and only dosed prazipro when i suspected flukes. Which anti biotics did i mix with copper? For what its worth,theres nothing wrong with his breathing. There are no other fish for the hefty water change/carbon/chemipure because the fish is in a dedicated quarantine tank. There is no bloom and there is also no ammonia so thanks for your wisdom but maybe try reading the thread next time

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello @vetteguy53081, i along with most people on this site,prophylactically treat all my fish before they go into my display.I used copper power as i always do and only dosed prazipro when i suspected flukes. Which anti biotics did i mix with copper? For what its worth,theres nothing wrong with his breathing. There are no other fish for the hefty water change/carbon/chemipure because the fish is in a dedicated quarantine tank. There is no bloom and there is also no ammonia so thanks for your wisdom but maybe try reading the thread next time

Bacterial bloom.. … Cloudy water was mentioned and was assumed a bloom. I said also would lead to heavy breathing and so forth. which other antibiotics/med- You mentioned of food medicated with fenbendazole and focus
Nonetheless... youre very welcome for possible insights. Hence,,, Ive been doing this 32 years and owned a very large store for over a decade- Wish I knew what I was talking about.
oh and . . . Don’t practice polypharmacy
Reefers of a certain age will, no doubt, be familiar with the term “polypharmacy”—the use of multiple medications. Aquarium hobbyists all too often practice this when an ailing fish doesn’t appear to respond to the treatments administered. One product doesn’t seem to work, so they dose another. When that doesn’t get the desired result, in goes another, and so on.
In fish, as in people, exposure to numerous medications at once can have adverse, or even deadly, effects. If one medication isn’t doing the job, don’t switch to another without first eliminating the original drug via major water changes and, potentially, the use of activated carbon or another chemical-filtration medium.. . . . . . That's all i was saying.

 

[Lizfrank1234]

No cloudy water or bacterial bloom was mentioned by me. I was asked if the water was cloudy and i replied no. I follow the quarantine procedure that many others on here follow. I used fenbendazole instead of the General Cure that i usually use because we had some prazipro resistant flukes a while back. @HotRocks and @Humblefish and @4FordFamily have worked on quarantine procedures that i and many many others try to follow,if you don't agree with prophylactically treating fish then thats fine,its up to you. Every single fish i have bought has had some problem or another so i wouldnt dream of putting one in my display that had not been treated. As for being of a certain age,i am nearly 50 so old enough to remember many things,polypharmacy not being one of them. I usually treat the fish in a quarantine tank with copper for 14 days at therapeutic level,then move them to a different quarantine tank for at least another 14 days. The medicated food will be used whenever the fish is eating well and normally prazipro is used in the second quarantine tank. If a fish needs treated for flukes straightaway then sometimes its prazipro first then copper after. What looked like flukes only showed up with the triggerfish when he was already at therapeutic copper level so the circumstances were different and i done what i thought needed done. Maybe i was wrong,maybe not,who knows but the fish decline was already happening.

 

[vetteguy53081]

No cloudy water or bacterial bloom was mentioned by me. I was asked if the water was cloudy and i replied no. I follow the quarantine procedure that many others on here follow. I used fenbendazole instead of the General Cure that i usually use because we had some prazipro resistant flukes a while back. @HotRocks and @Humblefish and @4FordFamily have worked on quarantine procedures that i and many many others try to follow,if you don't agree with prophylactically treating fish then thats fine,its up to you. Every single fish i have bought has had some problem or another so i wouldnt dream of putting one in my display that had not been treated. As for being of a certain age,i am nearly 50 so old enough to remember many things,polypharmacy not being one of them. I usually treat the fish in a quarantine tank with copper for 14 days at therapeutic level,then move them to a different quarantine tank for at least another 14 days. The medicated food will be used whenever the fish is eating well and normally prazipro is used in the second quarantine tank. If a fish needs treated for flukes straightaway then sometimes its prazipro first then copper after. What looked like flukes only showed up with the triggerfish when he was already at therapeutic copper level so the circumstances were different and i done what i thought needed done. Maybe i was wrong,maybe not,who knows but the fish decline was already happening.

Problem with fish acquisition is " Who knows". if only fish could talk or text The three members you mentioned are Very trusted and I am not challenging the method used, but more concerned of the counter action with copper. By medicating fish in advance, I have seen many build up an immunity to those meds over time but if it works for you...… Kudos. Perhaps my involvement with medical field makes me more cautious. That trigger is a super tough fish and sad to see its' state...…. But again that's the risk we take every time we acquire something new for our system.
Hopes moving forward that this was an isolated case for you and many joyful acquisitions in the future !!