Bolus dosing

[rtparty]

There's a significant thread on here about part C.
Post in thread 'Clarity on Tropic Marin Part C' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/clarity-on-tropic-marin-part-c.572262/post-8544200

Yes. I’ve read it.

I still question why TM isn’t more upfront about the ingredients. Why just list Mg and K and then even tell you the recommended ranges to keep Mg and K with Part C?

If you look at the instructions on the Balling method they state what Part A and B are and recommend levels for alkalinity and calcium. Then under Part C they only list Mg and K (and their concentrations) and then recommend levels for Mg and K.

Seems very odd they don’t specify there are other elements. And if Part C is not meant to maintain Mg and K, why list the concentration and recommended levels of each?

I dosed Part C in my tank at a level lower than TM recommended and never had to dose Mg even when I wasn’t doing weekly water changes. So it clearly can supplement element usage. At least for Mg and K in my experience.

But this is all off topic to the thread at hand. I just wanted to point out something.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy has explained Part C and I’ve read all that. It’s mostly magnesium sulfate and some potassium.

Lou from TM claims there are ALL 70 trace elements from seawater in it as well. I find that claim hard to believe but if true, they should clearly state that in their label IMO.

Ingredient lists matter IMO and we, as the hobby, should be pushing every manufacturer to clearly label what we are adding. This fits right into the FM claims and them trying to hide “secret” ingredients

I have no reason to doubt it is a sodium chloride free salt, which would be very easy for a salt make to package up.

I’m not convinced it has normal levels of alk or calcium, but that’s not an important issue.

 

[twentyleagues]

Using reefbums charting, can anyone see an overall pH increase? Sure there's a higher peak due to increased alk but also a lower low. From Google land, and experience,

calcareous algae really struggles at low nightly pH due to it basically dissolving more than it can deposit. Is this good?

The only increase I saw and that was mentioned was at the end on the 17th it looks to be starting to trend up. But I am not sure how someone goes on a "show" to talk about the change over to bolus and show info with known test equipment errors and faulty information or lack of info. I mean honestly it would have been better to just say something like " yeah I have switched. I am not 100% sure on how its going I had some equipment errors at the time I switched, but from looking at the tank everything seems healthy and doing well despite the weird test errors I got at first. Time will tell."

 

[Garf]

The only increase I saw and that was mentioned was at the end on the 17th it looks to be starting to trend up. But I am not sure how someone goes on a "show" to talk about the change over to bolus and show info with known test equipment errors and faulty information or lack of info. I mean honestly it would have been better to just say something like " yeah I have switched. I am not 100% sure on how its going I had some equipment errors at the time I switched, but from looking at the tank everything seems healthy and doing well despite the weird test errors I got at first. Time will tell."

Yeah, he made a pH recalibration that day. He did say at 1hr 23min that his pH was dropping too low however, so reintroduced light by reducing his ramp down lighting period. He wasn't able to blast the coral with light at the start of the photoperiod, just a full on (no ramp).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m all for monitoring stuff, but the bolus world would be a much less complicated place if users simply stuck to the conclusion that their tanks seemed to be doing great using this method, instead of trying to explain why. The explanations are neither needed nor convincing. The tanks are convincing that it’s a fine thing to do.

I know I’d personally take that info alongside lots of other data points of methods folks like and are successful with, and move on.

 

[areefer01]

I’m all for monitoring stuff, but the bolus world would be a much less complicated place if users simply stuck to the conclusion that their tanks seemed to be doing great using this method, instead of trying to explain why.

I think for some it is ego. Others it is like being a groupie and following their favorite band around in a VW Bus.

Never did they consider to say they switched because they like it or it makes them feel good.

 

[Garf]

Those 5ltr containers ain't gonna last long, dosing 800mls a day into a 350 gallon, (1.8dkh, assuming he's got 90grms/litre to dissolve). Keith definitely gives the impression that he thinks he is adding a vaste amount of Alk, and the swing he's getting will reduce. The only way I see the swing reducing in reality is lower calcification.

 

[Mo.]

I don’t know how or if said peptide polymer makes its way from FM to the tank, but it is not present at any reasonable quantity in the alk mix powder. That material matches both the ir spectrum and alk of pure sodium bicarbonate. Perhaps it is present in other parts.

I’m all for monitoring stuff, but the bolus world would be a much less complicated place if users simply stuck to the conclusion that their tanks seemed to be doing great using this method, instead of trying to explain why. The explanations are neither needed nor convincing. The tanks are convincing that it’s a fine thing to do.

I know I’d personally take that info alongside lots of other data points of methods folks like and are successful with, and move on.

Come on now Randy. I came on this thread saying “my tank seemed to be doing great using this method”

My posts- “should” still be there albeit they were being moderated.

I was asked a million different ways to qualify that statement and reasons why my observations couldn’t be true.

I’m glad there is more “alignment” between the two “sides”.

As I’ve always said, it will all come out in the wash. The bottom line is, are tanks steadily declining or are they thriving (without having to clinically or chemically define “thriving”). Pictures tell a thousand words

Quickly leaves before getting accused of asking to “show us your tank” lol

 

[Mo.]

Those 5ltr containers ain't gonna last long, dosing 800mls a day into a 350 gallon, (1.8dkh, assuming he's got 90grms/litre to dissolve). Keith definitely gives the impression that he thinks he is adding a vaste amount of Alk, and the swing he's getting will reduce. The only way I see the swing reducing in reality is lower calcification.

I think you’ve had plenty of people running bolus telling you that calcification does not seem to be reduced.

what I haven’t seen explained is if Randy says that the FM alk is pure bicarb and you say the FM alk is of low potency, how do those two statements align?

 

[areefer01]

Those 5ltr containers ain't gonna last long

Probably doesn't matter in his case since he has connections and sponsored by.

 

[Garf]

you say the FM alk is of low potency

It's low potency compared to the Fauna calculator, which is a fantasy. I've commented lots about it on this thread.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Come on now Randy. I came on this thread saying “my tank seemed to be doing great using this method”

My posts- “should” still be there albeit they were being moderated.

I was asked a million different ways to qualify that statement and reasons why my observations couldn’t be true.

I’m glad there is more “alignment” between the two “sides”.

As I’ve always said, it will all come out in the wash. The bottom line is, are tanks steadily declining or are they thriving (without having to clinically or chemically define “thriving”). Pictures tell a thousand words

Quickly leaves before getting accused of asking to “show us your tank” lol

If you think something was changed by moderators, it is easy for me to check. I think it is highly unlikely a moderator changed anything significant, short of deleting a post that was violating the terms of service.

If you entered the thread saying your tank did great, I’m quite certain I would not have suggested otherwise. What I did many times in this thread was to ask users making such a claim: compared to what and evaluated in what way. Neither question involves any explanation of mechanism,

 

[Oldreefer44]

I think for some it is ego. Others it is like being a groupie and following their favorite band around in a VW Bus.

Never did they consider to say they switched because they like it or it makes them feel good.

I'm just trying to get to 100,000 views while at the same time following the Grass Roots bus.

 

[areefer01]

I'm just trying to get to 100,000 views while at the same time following the Grass Roots bus.

I can get behind that.

Grass Roots - Let's Live for Today. Gets played here often as they are in my Protest and Rage playlist. You know, the whole 60's, golden bombs of light and love, Berkeley Hills and San Francisco, Bohemian jam.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think you’ve had plenty of people running bolus telling you that calcification does not seem to be reduced.

what I haven’t seen explained is if Randy says that the FM alk is pure bicarb and you say the FM alk is of low potency, how do those two statements align?

Ahh so FM is magic. Use less overall atoms to get the same or better calcification. The product is amazing, it grows coral better than any other bicarbonate and can form magic crystals that multiply their potency by almost double

 

[BeanAnimal]

what I haven’t seen explained is if Randy says that the FM alk is pure bicarb and you say the FM alk is of low potency, how do those two statements align?

How do they align? It depends on how many grams of the stuff are dissolved into a given amount of water.

Claude's calculator and statements about what is in his product are what doesn't align.

 

[Mo.]

It's low potency compared to the Fauna calculator, which is a fantasy. I've commented lots about it on this thread.

Maybe I wasnt clear enough. If it is low potency, what else does it have in it to reduce that potency compared to other "high" potency bicarb dosing options, given that Randy says it's pure bicarb powder? ie if thats your answer to why the alk demand goes up on starting bolus method, then how can it be pure bicarb? you've clearly stated that it has low potency compared to bicarb many times.

 

[Mo.]

If you think something was changed by moderators, it is easy for me to check. I think it is highly unlikely a moderator changed anything significant, short of deleting a post that was violating the terms of service.

at least onepost was deleted and I was not told why. I'm not even sure how I could have been violating anything- given it was a two way discussion between many people.

If you entered the thread saying your tank did great, I’m quite certain I would not have suggested otherwise. What I did many times in this thread was to ask users making such a claim: compared to what and evaluated in what way. Neither question involves any explanation of mechanism,

That was not directed specifically at you, Randy. There were many others on many occasions that did and when I made some basic observations, I was ridiculed.... Anwya, that was a long time ago.

 

[Mo.]

Ahh so FM is magic. Use less overall atoms to get the same or better calcification. The product is amazing, it grows coral better than any other bicarbonate and can form magic crystals that multiply their potency by almost double

huh?

 

[Garf]

you've clearly stated that it has low potency compared to bicarb many times

I think you are wrong. Can you show me where?