Both of my Clowns Jumped! Why?

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

About 30 days ago, I had one of my clown fish jump. Found it behind the DT. My thought was the other clown, who is slightly bigger, chased it till it jumped. last night the second one jumped. Found it on the floor behind the tank this morning.

The other tank inhabitants are four tangs (Tomini, Powder Blue, Purple, Hippo), six blue green Chromis, one female Bellus angel, two skunk shrimp, two fire shrimp, two pincushion urchins and a bunch of snails.

The clowns would always hang out high on the back wall of the tank. One close to the overflow and on in the top corner of the tank. I’ve never seen any aggression from anyone in the tank, but I’m suspecting someone chased them out. The clowns were the first fish in the tank 3 1/2 months ago, but both jumped since I added the PB, Purple, Hippo Tangs and and the two fire shrimp. The two fire shrimp are bigger than the clowns were.

Who do you think chased them? I’m leaning toward the fire shrimp. Each clowns jumped at night, because I always saw them at morning and evening feeding time. I’m thinking the fire shrimp are the main suspects. I’ve never seen any of the other fish go near them, but I didn’t think fire shrimp would go after fish. Any ideas?

Jetson.

I'm sorry for your losses.

Your fish jumped because you didn't have a screen top.

Clowns are known for jumping; they don't need a reason.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Seems like the key to success is getting the clowns and a host together so they have their “safe” place Is the lower half of the tank.

Nope. As has been stated, clowns (and many other fish) will jump at times regardless of what else is in the tank or whether they have an anemone.

Pretty sad that we have to cage them to keep them from killing themselves

You already have them in a cage... It just needs a lid

 

[BetterJake]

Added two clowns to my tank while waiting for my lid to be delivered. One jumped two days before delivery. After lid, no more carpet surfing.

 

[jDoSe]

You need the proper anemone for your species of clownfish. If there’s nowhere they call home, they often swim face down in the top corner of the tank. It is really sad and depressing to watch.
This eventually causes a jump on the slightest scare.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You need the proper anemone for your species of clownfish. If there’s nowhere they call home, they often swim face down in the top corner of the tank. It is really sad and depressing to watch.
This eventually causes a jump on the slightest scare.

This is an untrue statement. Clowns don't NEED an anemone to be happy and healthy in our tanks. The "swimming in the corner" behavior isn't what makes them jump, and fish that do this aren't "depressed".

OP, it's great if, when your tank is ready for one, you get an anemone, but on no way will it harm the fish if you don't (or if you get one and they never host in it).

 

[saltyfins]

This is an untrue statement. Clowns don't NEED an anemone to be happy and healthy in our tanks. The "swimming in the corner" behavior isn't what makes them jump, and fish that do this aren't "depressed".

OP, it's great if, when your tank is ready for one, you get an anemone, but on no way will it harm the fish if you don't (or if you get one and they never host in it).

exactly. Mine host a hammer coral, and in the other tank, xenia of all things. They're just weird little fish.

 

[AKL1950]

How big is your tank? I could be way off here, but I count 11 fish added in 3 months, IMO nothing has had a chance to settle in and claim a little peice territory.

I've had clowns for years, I have never kept lids, and clowns never jumped on me, very rarely any fish ever jumped. Its had for me to imagine that a clownfish can even build up enough speed to jump out.

Don’t think so. Tank is 72x24x22”. Clowns and Tomini Tang went in first. Two weeks later three Chromis. Month later three more Tangs. PB, purple and Hippo. Month later three more Chromis and a female Bellus Angel. Everyone seems to have found their own space. Tomorrow, the last fish will arrive from Dr Reef. A male Bellus Angel. I’m betting the problem was me. Their “spot” was the upper back wall of the tank. They picked their spot before anyone else arrived. They were also in quarantine with the Tomini. I’m thinking pretty strongly that me cleaning their area was spooking them.

I guess I’m reluctant to consider a screen because of cleaning. I clean all the glass daily and a top will make that more difficult. I’ve had clowns before and never had a problem, but back then they had an anemone and I wasn’t disturbing their area. I’ll look at screen options, but I’m thinking I can avoid problems in the future by giving them a better place to want to live. Once I’ll got the tank flushed with corals I’ll look to get a couple of clowns again, but this time with a host. Hopefully, they will find a better spot which is well away from the top. If not, a screen is probably my next option to consider.

Jetson

 

[i cant think]

Don’t think so. Tank is 72x24x22”. Clowns and Tomini Tang went in first. Two weeks later three Chromis. Month later three more Tangs. PB, purple and Hippo. Month later three more Chromis and a female Bellus Angel. Everyone seems to have found their own space. Tomorrow, the last fish will arrive from Dr Reef. A male Bellus Angel. I’m betting the problem was me. Their “spot” was the upper back wall of the tank. They picked their spot before anyone else arrived. They were also in quarantine with the Tomini. I’m thinking pretty strongly that me cleaning their area was spooking them.

I guess I’m reluctant to consider a screen because of cleaning. I clean all the glass daily and a top will make that more difficult. I’ve had clowns before and never had a problem, but back then they had an anemone and I wasn’t disturbing their area. I’ll look at screen options, but I’m thinking I can avoid problems in the future by giving them a better place to want to live. Once I’ll got the tank flushed with corals I’ll look to get a couple of clowns again, but this time with a host. Hopefully, they will find a better spot which is well away from the top. If not, a screen is probably my next option to consider.

Jetson

Can you not get a magnetic scraper? I just leave mine against the back of the right side tank (My background is black so a black scraper is easily hidden).

Also, it seems you’ve added 13 fish within 2 months by the sounds of it. This can cause stress due to hierarchal issues being dealt with all at once. There is also 5 tangs in a 5’ tank, many of which are rather aggressive. Chances are whilst you weren’t watching aggression rose between the tangs and other fish for a change of the hierarchy as well as territory issues.
You may find the clowns were in the top corner because of either aggression or lack of territory.

 

[FIN&BONEZ]

Personally I think that captive breeding plays a huge role in why the hobbies having so many surfing clowns. Besides from usually being kept in small, poor, over crowded spaces their basic instincts have been bred right out of them. Don't get me wrong captive breeding is great if you want a super cute fuzzy wuzzy mixed breed clown who won't host anything, live in a corner of the tank, and then go skydiving on you. YAY SIGN ME UP

 

[AKL1950]

Can you not get a magnetic scraper? I just leave mine against the back of the right side tank (My background is black so a black scraper is easily hidden).

Also, it seems you’ve added 13 fish within 2 months by the sounds of it. This can cause stress due to hierarchal issues being dealt with all at once. There is also 5 tangs in a 5’ tank, many of which are rather aggressive. Chances are whilst you weren’t watching aggression rose between the tangs and other fish for a change of the hierarchy as well as territory issues.
You may find the clowns were in the top corner because of either aggression or lack of territory.

Tank is 6’ long. WaterBox 220.6. Like I said, the clowns chose that area before there was anyone else in the tank. They may have picked there because of water flow patterns, but not because they were chased there. That’s probably where the flow is the least turbulent throughout the tank. There is minimum aggression in the tank. All the tangs get along. The purple is probably tank King. She may get a little bossy when the algae clips go out, but other than that no aggression. Her and the Powder Blue swim together most of the time Like best of buddies. Chromis’s don’t bother anyone.

I have a Max Flipper Float, but I also use a long blade scrapper to do touch up scrapping where needed. Problem with the back of the tank is two fold. Radion fixtures are mounted individually

on the back glass, so cleaning around the brackets is done by hand. The other is the overflow box where the mag float won’t work. Those are the two areas the clowns stayed, so me cleaning was probably the cause of stress for them.

 

[jDoSe]

Personally I think that captive breeding plays a huge role in why the hobbies having so many surfing clowns. Besides from usually being kept in small, poor, over crowded spaces their basic instincts have been bred right out of them. Don't get me wrong captive breeding is great if you want a super cute fuzzy wuzzy mixed breed clown who won't host anything, live in a corner of the tank, and then go skydiving on you. YAY SIGN ME UP

I believe this is completely incorrect, having bred multiple different clownfish both wild and multi-generational tank-raised. Although I do agree they are often kept in small, poor, overcrowded conditions, I don’t believe their instincts are bred out of them.

I think the issue is not that they don’t host anything, it’s that we don’t provide what they host in the wild. Wild or not, they don’t have the instinct to host your hammer coral.

Can you get lucky? Sure. Many times? Sure. But i’d say there are more cases of them not hosting anything than hosting a random coral. On top of that, what many people call “hosting” a hammer coral, isn’t real hosting when compared with how they interact with their actual anemone. It isn’t even close. You’d have better luck with a flower pot in many situations.

I don’t recall cases of a clownfish, tank-raised or not, not hosting an anemone species they host in the wild.

Rbta anemones are not normally hosts to ocellaris or percula. Almost all the ones you should own get absolutely massive. If you want a clownfish that’ll host a bubble tip, get a maroon (like the lightnings).

 

[FIN&BONEZ]

I believe this is completely incorrect, having bred multiple different clownfish both wild and multi-generational tank-raised. Although I do agree they are often kept in small, poor, overcrowded conditions, I don’t believe their instincts are bred out of them.

I think the issue is not that they don’t host anything, it’s that we don’t provide what they host in the wild. Wild or not, they don’t have the instinct to host your hammer coral.

Can you get lucky? Sure. Many times? Sure. But i’d say there are more cases of them not hosting anything than hosting a random coral. On top of that, what many people call “hosting” a hammer coral, isn’t real hosting when compared with how they interact with their actual anemone. It isn’t even close. You’d have better luck with a flower pot in many situations.

I don’t recall cases of a clownfish, tank-raised or not, not hosting an anemone species they host in the wild.

Rbta anemones are not normally hosts to ocellaris or percula. Almost all the ones you should own get absolutely massive. If you want a clownfish that’ll host a bubble tip, get a maroon (like the lightnings).

Clearly stated as a personal opinion, if you want to bust out a fact on the topic I'm game to learn? Till then I'll go ahead and stick with my " personal opinion" whether it meets yours or not. I seem to remember years ago my ORA rep. saying the chances of captive bred clowns hosting anything was slim and none. Not in their DNA he said. I guess he probably has no idea what he's talking about either?

 

[jDoSe]

Clearly stated as a personal opinion, if you want to bust out a fact on the topic I'm game to learn? Till then I'll go ahead and stick with my " personal opinion" whether it meets yours or not. I seem to remember years ago my ORA rep. saying the chances of captive bred clowns hosting anything was slim and none. Not in their DNA he said. I guess he probably has no idea what he's talking about either?

If he said that, nope. That’s not how DNA works.

 

[i cant think]

Captive bred specimens are less likely to try and get an anemone to host them. This is most likely due to how they’re bred in tanks and don’t really have anything to “claim” them. Not due to DNA being taken out of them.
Another thing is, Clownfish have scales that protect them from the skin and they can become resistant to their hosts sting. These scales are part of their DNA however it’s not taken from them even when captive bred. Captive breeding mainly lowers their colours due to nutrients (You tend to find this with any captive bred fish) or even lack of in many if not all cases.

If you want a clownfish that is more likely to host an anemone then go for a wild caught one. Also, Occelaris and Percula do not naturally host Enacmaea quadricolor, instead they naturally host Heteractis magnifica, Stichodactyla haddasoni and Stichodactyla gicantica. If you want a species that will play as a natural guest to your Enacmaea quadricolor then the only species that will naturally try and get this anemone to host them is Premnas biaculeatus.

And finally, Amphiprion/Premnas use these anemones and hosts for defence. They may not find a need to find a host in your tank as they feel safe and are the boss of the tank.

 

[jDoSe]

Less likely to host an unnatural coral like a hammer, yes that’s plausible. The wild caught ones are likely grabbed from their anemone that they’ve been in for months-years. When then are put in a tank they try to find it again and may pick whatever looks closest like it.

The tank-raised ones never had the correct anemone in the first place, so there is nothing for them to look for. Sadly they’ll swim facing down in a corner. To me that’s their coping mechanism (subconsciously). Their brain is telling them they are missing something, but they don’t know what it is, because they’ve never even seen or felt it. It’s how instincts work in animals.

Again, I have raised tens of thousands of clownfish from multiple pairs. Some 4+ generations in captivity. To claim that the offspring didn’t host their (natural) anemone, when they did, is just completely false.

What percentage of reefers buy the correct anemone for their ocellaris/percula? 0.1%? Less?
You can’t compare odds of a hammer hosting to an s. gigantea or magnifica…
You’re surprised you tank raised clowns won’t touch your hammer, frogspawn, or torch coral? I’m more surprised the wild ones did!

 

[FIN&BONEZ]

Less likely to host an unnatural coral like a hammer, yes that’s plausible. The wild caught ones are likely grabbed from their anemone that they’ve been in for months-years. When then are put in a tank they try to find it again and may pick whatever looks closest like it.

The tank-raised ones never had the correct anemone in the first place, so there is nothing for them to look for. Sadly they’ll swim facing down in a corner. To me that’s their coping mechanism (subconsciously). Their brain is telling them they are missing something, but they don’t know what it is, because they’ve never even seen or felt it. It’s how instincts work in animals.

Again, I have raised tens of thousands of clownfish from multiple pairs. Some 4+ generations in captivity. To claim that the offspring didn’t host their (natural) anemone, when they did, is just completely false.

What percentage of reefers buy the correct anemone for their ocellaris/percula? 0.1%? Less?
You can’t compare odds of a hammer hosting to an s. gigantea or magnifica…
You’re surprised you tank raised clowns won’t touch your hammer, frogspawn, or torch coral? I’m more surprised the wild ones did!

How can this not help my original opinion that you totally dismissed? Years and years of breeding anything in captivity will obviously change their instincts. Its not science its common sense.

 

[jDoSe]

How can this not help my original opinion that you totally dismissed? Years and years of breeding anything in captivity will obviously change their instincts. Its not science its common sense.

The part I am dismissing is the part where you claim it was bred out of them and no longer part of their DNA. Which is just factually false. It is science.

When we breed clownfish, we are breeding only to get different color variations (well, and those weird longfins). We are not trying to breed out certain traits, such as their ability to host with anemones.

Could we do that? Sure. Start with a wild pair. Put the offspring with a magnifica anemone. Separate and breed any you think had a minor adverse reaction to an anemone. Repeat the cycle for many generations. Eventually you could end up with clowns that avoid anemones.
You can potentially do the opposite as well. Place the offspring with a hammer coral. Collect any that live in the hammer and breed them with others that also do (different parents). Rinse and repeat. But even then, we are talking untold number of millennia of evolution we have to counteract…it may happen over a few generations, or hundreds.

Take dogs for example. We didn’t end up with pugs because they were just kept in captivity. Dogs were specifically bred not only for aesthetics, but personality traits as well. We are still doing it to this day. That’s why some dogs are hunting dogs, some pull, some are smarter, some herd, etc. If we blindly bred wild wolves for as long as we did, we would end up with wolves…
As far as I am aware, no one is breeding traits in/out clownfish. The 8th generation offspring are pretty much identical to the parents. Decade+ ago I debated trying this to get them to host with rbta or hammers (thought this would give my clowns a unique market advantage noone else had), but it would just take so long…possibly lifetimes…

Now…can the argument be made that since less than 0.1% of tank raised clownfish have their proper anemone, that the only ones that live to adulthood and breeding age have this trait of not requiring an anemone? And that since these are also bred with others in the same boat, that this trait would proliferate? That’s a massive stretch to say the least. That would mean that the offspring that “require” an anemone die without one. And we know for a fact they do just fine in flower pots (don’t die and reproduce). Even in this unlikely scenario, it wouldn’t explain why I can take a random high-gen tank-raised clownfish, put it in a tank with a gigantea, and they host immediately.

 

[FIN&BONEZ]

The part I am dismissing is the part where you claim it was bred out of them and no longer part of their DNA. Which is just factually false. It is science.

When we breed clownfish, we are breeding only to get different color variations (well, and those weird longfins). We are not trying to breed out certain traits, such as their ability to host with anemones.

Could we do that? Sure. Start with a wild pair. Put the offspring with a magnifica anemone. Separate and breed any you think had a minor adverse reaction to an anemone. Repeat the cycle for many generations. Eventually you could end up with clowns that avoid anemones.
You can potentially do the opposite as well. Place the offspring with a hammer coral. Collect any that live in the hammer and breed them with others that also do (different parents). Rinse and repeat. But even then, we are talking untold number of millennia of evolution we have to counteract…it may happen over a few generations, or hundreds.

Take dogs for example. We didn’t end up with pugs because they were just kept in captivity. Dogs were specifically bred not only for aesthetics, but personality traits as well. We are still doing it to this day. That’s why some dogs are hunting dogs, some pull, some are smarter, some herd, etc. If we blindly bred wild wolves for as long as we did, we would end up with wolves…
As far as I am aware, no one is breeding traits in/out clownfish. The 8th generation offspring are pretty much identical to the parents. Decade+ ago I debated trying this to get them to host with rbta or hammers (thought this would give my clowns a unique market advantage noone else had), but it would just take so long…possibly lifetimes…

Now…can the argument be made that since less than 0.1% of tank raised clownfish have their proper anemone, that the only ones that live to adulthood and breeding age have this trait of not requiring an anemone? And that since these are also bred with others in the same boat, that this trait would proliferate? That’s a massive stretch to say the least. That would mean that the offspring that “require” an anemone die without one. And we know for a fact they do just fine in flower pots (don’t die and reproduce). Even in this unlikely scenario, it wouldn’t explain why I can take a random high-gen tank-raised clownfish, put it in a tank with a gigantea, and they host immediately.

So you would disagree that the sperm from a wild caught specimen isn't the same as a forth generation captive bred?

 

[jDoSe]

So you would disagree that the sperm from a wild caught specimen isn't the same as a forth generation captive bred?

And with this, I think it best to let this conversation end…

 

[TheSheff]

Honestly, without a lid, I think my clowns would have jumped out by now. They swim as close as they can to the top when they sleep and I can hear them splashing sometimes at night.